I'm not a raptor fan. But as soon as i heard this trade i thought it was good for the raptors. However after reading a few posts, maybe raptors could of gotten a lilttle more for Charlie. Maybe a 2nd round pick. But i dont think Charlie is THAT good, but i've never seen the kid play so that probably doesnt mean anything coming from me.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">are u insane raptor fans? TJ Ford is one of the best point guards in the league. Do u realize how rare it is for you to find a REAL point guard in this league. You guys are so lucky to have TJ running the point.</div> One of the best point guards in the league? I don't think so. Rare enough that he was outplayed by Williams (his backup) and became expendable? Better point guards: Steve Nash Jason Kidd Baron Davis Chris Paul Mike Bibby Allen Iverson Andre Miller Kirk Hinrich Chauncey Billups Sam Casell Gilbert Arenas Tony Parker Jason Terry Stephon Marbury Joe Johnson Arguably just as good or on the same level: Steve Francis Luke Ridnour Brevin Knight Decent guards are a dime a dozen. Easily replaced but big guys that can shoot and pass? Not very common. That's why most Raptor fans are upset. We didn't get fair value. There are so many guys we could have replaced James with through trades or free agency. We could have even drafted someone. With all those options, we should have been able to keep Bosh/CV together as well as get a decent guard. We don't even need the point guard to score, just distribute the ball.
imagine if we could have trade for that 21 or 22 pick and got marcus williams then this deal would have never came....
i really thought we could have ended up with Knight Pete CV CB AB with rasho grahm sow calderon and some freeagents ...that'd be borderline playoff team imo
I like that lineup better than the one we have now. Ford Peterson Bargnani Bosh Nesterovic That's awful. Not even close to playoff calibre. Arguably, not even an improvement over last season.
I sure hope BC knows what the hell he's doing.... I'm pretty sure we could've got much more for CV than just TJ Ford. However, I will say that I'm not entirely sold on CV and quite frankly, I feel that he gets overrated a bit by Rap fans. Yes he's talented, but he reminds me too much of Antoine Walker.... Both are talented big men who can score and know how to pass, but they'd much rather rack up points than make assists. And the only difference is that Walker can play defense. Maybe Colangelo is also aware of this Walker comparison so that's why he's going with a team-oriented guy who can run the offense. For now, I guess I'll give BC the benefit of the doubt until we get to see how each player pans out.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">are u insane raptor fans? TJ Ford is one of the best point guards in the league. Do u realize how rare it is for you to find a REAL point guard in this league. You guys are so lucky to have TJ running the point.</div> GET OUT OF THESE FORUMS BRIAN COLANGELO!!! you'd have to be him to think charlie for tj ford is fair value. The damn point gaurd had a average at best season last year, has a serious back issue in his recent history, and is older best point gaurd in the league....even reading what the Bucks are saying screams "he's solid but our 2 backups can fill his spot without much trouble". This trade is horrible (note: i do think ford will do well with the Raps), but going by value alone, BC got taken to school.
TJ Ford was such a huge defensive liability when the Bucks played Detroit in the playoffs.. I dunno how Ford could actually improve on defense.. but if he can bring back his rookie season assets it would be great by passing first, and shoot second mentality. Though this trade sure proves that Mike James isn't coming back.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">other than it "filling a need" i cant think of one reason why this is good for the raps. he's a year removed from major neck surgery...a friggen spine injury! he's 2 years closer to being off his rookie contract he's a year older he's a small point gaurd thats inconsistant, poor shooting, and turnover prone he's good at getting steals, but a poor on ball defender he doesnt have the potential that Charlie does IMO i'm totally speachless (Well not really, i'm ranting really)</div> You've pretty much summed it up, more reasons as to why I also think this trade is a major bust. Here's somthing I dont think anyone has thought of, why not try Jose Calderon at starting Point Guard? (Which obviously would've had to have happened before this trade). Looking back on his 2005/2006, he was actually quite impressive, I think he has slipped under quite a few peoples radars. Playing behind Mike James he averaged 5.5ppg, 2.2rpg, 4.5apg in 23.2mpg over 64 games for the season, having quite a few good games (snagging 13 assists against the Wizards on 12/06/2005). Only problem is his turn over ratio (ranked #13), however they've aquired a turn over machine anyway (who ranked #12).
colangelo is a genius. he's constructing a fast break team to adapt to the leagues hottest new teams the Suns and the Mavs. of course Charlie is a promising player. Get over it. In this new NBA, speed beats power. little guys like Tony Parker can get to the lane. Guys like Leandro Barbosa can totally break down your defensive schemes. then you have 7 footers who play like 6'6"ers - Dirk, bargnani... TJ Ford brings the kind of speed that will work in this kind of system. Mike James doesn't. TJ Ford is also a skilled passer. we can see from what Nash has done for Phoenix that a good passer can somewhat help your team to say the least. the best thing Colangelo has done though is make this team interesting. who isn't curious to see TJ Ford, Bosh and Bargnani going at it next year.
He said he was trying to pull another move after selecting Bargnani draft night, but that he didn't do it because the asking price (CV) was too much. We could've got a nice young point guard in Marcus Williams and maybe even another late 1st round pick for Charlie Villanueva. What was Colangelo thinking?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Eclipse:</div><div class="quote_post">One of the best point guards in the league? I don't think so. Rare enough that he was outplayed by Williams (his backup) and became expendable? Better point guards: Steve Nash Jason Kidd Baron Davis Chris Paul Mike Bibby Allen Iverson Andre Miller Kirk Hinrich Chauncey Billups Sam Casell Gilbert Arenas Tony Parker Jason Terry Stephon Marbury Joe Johnson Arguably just as good or on the same level: Steve Francis Luke Ridnour Brevin Knight Decent guards are a dime a dozen. Easily replaced but big guys that can shoot and pass? Not very common. That's why most Raptor fans are upset. We didn't get fair value. There are so many guys we could have replaced James with through trades or free agency. We could have even drafted someone. With all those options, we should have been able to keep Bosh/CV together as well as get a decent guard. We don't even need the point guard to score, just distribute the ball.</div> You're giving Ford too much credit, Knight was easily better than him, and even his backup Mo Williams was better than him, not to talk of Charlie Bell who really produced when he played. This is not to say Ford sucks, but I agree with you in that how can anyone call him one of the best PG's in the league, that's laughable. You know as a rookie we were calling him a great pure PG, but last season he wasn't even that, he was just another old PG.
Wow, bold move. I wish we could have exploited the value of Villanueva a little better. A draft pick? A filler? Expiring contract? And, yea, I totally agree with og15. This trade is a complete risk. It could make us an amazing team, if Bargnani develops into what BC and MG see in him and Ford returns to what he's better at. But it could totally fall through, and Colangelo's leaving himself very vulnerable. I'm still reserving judgment on this trade. Some of the anger I'm feeling towards this trade is because Villanueva was just one of my favourite players. But, coming out of the draft, we all knew we were going to trade big for small. And to be fair, it's much harder to find a true point guard, than it is to find a versatile SF/PF. I hope we sign Jared Jeffries.
I'll be very upset if this deal goes through, which it probably will. Charlie V had the most upside of any raptor I've seen in a long, long time, I mean there is Bosh but he's our Franchise and Charlie V>Bargnani in my books, but thats just what I think, I could easily be proven wrong come the season. TJ Ford better not dissapoint or else Ima have to lay the smackdown.
People need to lighten up. I don't think we could have gotten a more quality point guard for Charlies value. Charlie will be a future all-star for sure BUT we now have a top tier point guard who was 12th in the league for assists. Not to mention that he fits into what Colangelo is trying to do to this team, which is making them a more run and gun offence. Giving up Charlie is hard especially after what a great season he had but TJ Ford is a very good quality point guard who will only get better. Not to mention the fact that TJ is only a year older than Charlie.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spyware:</div><div class="quote_post">He said he was trying to pull another move after selecting Bargnani draft night, but that he didn't do it because the asking price (CV) was too much. We could've got a nice young point guard in Marcus Williams and maybe even another late 1st round pick for Charlie Villanueva. What was Colangelo thinking?</div> There's prolly some stuff that we don't know about marcus williams There should be something that made him dropped to 22nd pick
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">People need to lighten up. I don't think we could have gotten a more quality point guard for Charlies value. Charlie will be a future all-star for sure BUT we now have a top tier point guard who was 12th in the league for assists. </div> ohhhh well la de da! 12th in the league in assist is sooooo great! Hell Mike James was 19th in the league, and he did it averaging less turnovers, more points, better %..better everything. Top Tier point gaurd? How is someone "top tier" when there are 15 other teams in the NBA with a better point gaurd? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post"> Not to mention that he fits into what Colangelo is trying to do to this team, which is making them a more run and gun offence. </div> You're right...an athletic 6-10 PF that can play 3 positions, can pass the ball, run the court, shoot from anywhere has no place in a high tempo offense Didnt BC say at every possible moment that he was looking for players with versatility? He traded a 3 position player of superiour skills for an undersized point guard who shared time at starter with Mo Williams <div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post"> Giving up Charlie is hard especially after what a great season he had but TJ Ford is a very good quality point guard who will only get better. Not to mention the fact that TJ is only a year older than Charlie.</div> You're right he's sure to get better....its a lock! Nevermind that spine injury he had, or the fact that his only good season was as a rookie 3 years ago. He missed 20+ of the games that season then missed the entire season after, then last year was similiar to Mike James except that he didnt do it as well. I'm going down to the ACC with a sign asking to trade Chris Bosh for Jay Willaims. becuase trading one future allstar for a health risk, average point gaurd isnt enough.
