<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Toronto Raptors have traded forward Charlie Villanueva to the Milwaukee Bucks for point guard T.J. Ford, Villanueva's agent confirmed Friday night.</div> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2506311
Great pickup for the Bucks. Gives you a very solid front court, with or without Magloire. T.J Ford is a good player, but personally, with his health problems, I wouldnt take a risk on him, not for Villaneuva at least. Also a good trade considering you guys still have Mo Williams and Charlie Bell, both decent point guards also.
If I'm a Bucks fan, I love this trade. They had 3 quality PG's, and were able to trade one of them for a posistion of need, and got a very talented, versatile, young player in return in Villanueva, who happened to drop 48 on them last year. Funny how things turn out.
I don't know how to say this any other way: what a God-awful trade My instant reaction upon seeing this trade flash across the bottom of the screen on ESPN was pure fury. Why in the hell would we trade a guy with as much potential as Ford has (yes, I know he's inconsistant and he turns it over too much, but those are correctable problems), for yet another lanky, lithe, SOFT power forward? WHY? WHY? WHY? We need an ass-kicker in the paint, not another damn jump shooter! I don't see how this trade improves our team; we lose a very talented young point guard, a precious commodity, in exchange for a jump shooting, not-good rebounding, no-defense combo forward, something we already have too many of. I don't know; maybe some day I'll come around and fall in love with Charles, but as of right now I am not happy with our acquisition of him AT ALL. I wanted only one thing this off season: a tough, mean S.O.B to stick down in the paint and give our team the grit and rebounding we lacked at crucial times last year, and we gave up our good young 1 to get the exact opposite of that. I do not like this deal at all.
you sell charlie far to short Schaddy. How many of his games did you see last year? Sure CV's only a decent rebounder and he's not that good on defense (a.."but those are correctable problems") but he's a big man that can run the floor, has great court vision, can shoot from anywhere on the court and isnt afraid to do some dirty work. Not only that but he's younger, and will be on his cheapy rookie contract for longer. Ford is a no defense, turnover prone, cant shoot to save his life, inconsistent POINT GAURD (you never trade big for small!!!!), who's a year removed from a very very serious SPINE injury. and you're complaining????
Absolutely I'm complaining, 02civic. I pose the same question to you: how many of the Bucks' games did you see last year? The absolute LAST thing we need is another soft 4.
Schaddy, I think you're realizing what Charlie V can do, I wouldn't necessarily call him soft. He has a career high of 18 rebounds, he can rebound the ball. There are only a couple of players on the Bucks who have a higher career high in rebounds, one is Dan Gadzuric who has 20 as a career high, Joe Smith with 20, and Jaamal Magliore with 22 (probably won't be with the team next year). Charlie V is right in the area of your other rebounders. Surely he lost some rebounds because of Chris Bosh. He also expands your offense. He's a big who can score from anywhere on the court, has great court vision, and he's only a second year player. I think it's a great acquisition by you guys, and I think you'll end up loving the trade.
I agree with 02civic and TBM here, Charlie V isn't a tough gritty enforcer but he'll do a great job of spacing the floor for Bogut and he can rebound and block shots adequately. Rugged enforcers can be had for cheap in free agency or even from undrafted FAs (Eric Hicks, Kenny Adeleke, Millsap). Villanueva is a unique player who can do alot of things, he along with Bogut should make a very good frontcourt for years to come.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Schaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">Absolutely I'm complaining, 02civic. I pose the same question to you: how many of the Bucks' games did you see last year? The absolute LAST thing we need is another soft 4.</div> He's not a soft 4. He's not a banger but he's not soft, he'll get in there and grind for the rebounds. As he gets older and stronger i see him becoming a 20/8.5 man. Not bad seeing as all it cost you was an inconsitant, poor shooting, weak on ball defending point gaurd, oh and i forgot to mention that he has a SPINE INJURY thats still recent. The Raps need to go out now and trade Bosh for Jay Williams..that'll finish us off nicely.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with 02civic and TBM here, Charlie V isn't a tough gritty enforcer but he'll do a great job of spacing the floor for Bogut and he can rebound and block shots adequately. Rugged enforcers can be had for cheap in free agency or even from undrafted FAs (Eric Hicks, Kenny Adeleke, Millsap). Villanueva is a unique player who can do alot of things, he along with Bogut should make a very good frontcourt for years to come.</div> he sure as hell will give Bugot alot of options...defenses wont be able to sag into the post with Charlie at the 15-18 foot area and even beyond the arc. Absolute steal for you guys.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Schaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know how to say this any other way: what a God-awful trade My instant reaction upon seeing this trade flash across the bottom of the screen on ESPN was pure fury. Why in the hell would we trade a guy with as much potential as Ford has (yes, I know he's inconsistant and he turns it over too much, but those are correctable problems), for yet another lanky, lithe, SOFT power forward? WHY? WHY? WHY? We need an ass-kicker in the paint, not another damn jump shooter! I don't see how this trade improves our team; we lose a very talented young point guard, a precious commodity, in exchange for a jump shooting, not-good rebounding, no-defense combo forward, something we already have too many of. I don't know; maybe some day I'll come around and fall in love with Charles, but as of right now I am not happy with our acquisition of him AT ALL. I wanted only one thing this off season: a tough, mean S.O.B to stick down in the paint and give our team the grit and rebounding we lacked at crucial times last year, and we gave up our good young 1 to get the exact opposite of that. I do not like this deal at all.</div> Your not giving Charlie enough credit. You guys already have solid PG's in Charlie Bell and Mo Williams, and to get a player of Villanueva's potential and skillset, all you had to give up was TJ Ford. Charlie has 20/10 potential. If he plays hard like he did in Toronto, he'll be a great player alongside Bogut in the future.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Schaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know how to say this any other way: what a God-awful trade My instant reaction upon seeing this trade flash across the bottom of the screen on ESPN was pure fury. Why in the hell would we trade a guy with as much potential as Ford has (yes, I know he's inconsistant and he turns it over too much, but those are correctable problems), for yet another lanky, lithe, SOFT power forward? WHY? WHY? WHY? We need an ass-kicker in the paint, not another damn jump shooter! I don't see how this trade improves our team; we lose a very talented young point guard, a precious commodity, in exchange for a jump shooting, not-good rebounding, no-defense combo forward, something we already have too many of. I don't know; maybe some day I'll come around and fall in love with Charles, but as of right now I am not happy with our acquisition of him AT ALL. I wanted only one thing this off season: a tough, mean S.O.B to stick down in the paint and give our team the grit and rebounding we lacked at crucial times last year, and we gave up our good young 1 to get the exact opposite of that. I do not like this deal at all.</div> See this is an analysis of Villanueva without the Raptors bias. While I think you have to acknowledge the huge potential that Villanueva himself possesses, you obviously have a more objective view on it. What do you think of it from the Raps perspective?
I hope one of them fails their physical, and the trade doesn't go through, cuz Charlie V is the only raptor I like
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">See this is an analysis of Villanueva without the Raptors bias. While I think you have to acknowledge the huge potential that Villanueva himself possesses, you obviously have a more objective view on it. What do you think of it from the Raps perspective?</div> objective? he's clearly being bias towards Ford and his potential..not even considering the fact that he's had a major health history, is small and a poor defender and cant shoot to save his life.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Schaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know how to say this any other way: what a God-awful trade My instant reaction upon seeing this trade flash across the bottom of the screen on ESPN was pure fury. Why in the hell would we trade a guy with as much potential as Ford has (yes, I know he's inconsistant and he turns it over too much, but those are correctable problems), for yet another lanky, lithe, SOFT power forward? WHY? WHY? WHY? We need an ass-kicker in the paint, not another damn jump shooter! I don't see how this trade improves our team; we lose a very talented young point guard, a precious commodity, in exchange for a jump shooting, not-good rebounding, no-defense combo forward, something we already have too many of. I don't know; maybe some day I'll come around and fall in love with Charles, but as of right now I am not happy with our acquisition of him AT ALL. I wanted only one thing this off season: a tough, mean S.O.B to stick down in the paint and give our team the grit and rebounding we lacked at crucial times last year, and we gave up our good young 1 to get the exact opposite of that. I do not like this deal at all.</div> funny...raptors fans have the opposite feeling based on reading that, you really didnt see charlie play very much. he's not soft at all...and certainly shouldnt be catagorized as a "jump shooter". he's got a solid jumper and deep range, but he's also got a couple money low post "go-to" moves...and whenever presented with a smaller match up, he buried them in the post. you hate the trade now, but you'll like it when you see charlie stepping outside of the box you've put him in. he's much more versatile then you give him credit for. i understand you really love TJ, but give charlie a chance. he won the fans over in toronto quickly <div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">objective? he's clearly being bias towards Ford and his potential..not even considering the fact that he's had a major health history, is small and a poor defender and cant shoot to save his life.</div> im not worried about his jumper. ron artest couldnt shoot to save his life when he came into the nba. a solid jumper can be aquired with the right training and conditioning. ford already posseses some qualities that are important to a pg...if his jumper doesnt come around, then fair enough...but lets give him a chance before we bury him. the back problems dont concern me, because he didnt show any signs of back problems last year
Schaddy, I think Charlie V will change your opinion about him. He is a surprizingly good 3-pt shooter and he drive and crash the offensive boards. I would hope this trade falls apart, but it doesn't seem so.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">funny...raptors fans have the opposite feeling based on reading that, you really didnt see charlie play very much. he's not soft at all...and certainly shouldnt be catagorized as a "jump shooter". he's got a solid jumper and deep range, but he's also got a couple money low post "go-to" moves...and whenever presented with a smaller match up, he buried them in the post. you hate the trade now, but you'll like it when you see charlie stepping outside of the box you've put him in. he's much more versatile then you give him credit for. i understand you really love TJ, but give charlie a chance. he won the fans over in toronto quickly im not worried about his jumper. ron artest couldnt shoot to save his life when he came into the nba. a solid jumper can be aquired with the right training and conditioning. ford already posseses some qualities that are important to a pg...if his jumper doesnt come around, then fair enough...but lets give him a chance before we bury him. the back problems dont concern me, because he didnt show any signs of back problems last year</div> can he develop a jump shot? maybe...but its just sad that even though we're trading away the younger player, the player we're getting back in return is less of a complete player. So not only is he older, more expensive, has a recent back injury, undersized...he's also a project. Sure he'll start, and sure he'll get 13 and 7...but he's still a defensive liability, he's still not smart with the ball and he's still not worth Charlie V.
I'm not sure about this one yet, either. My first reaction was "NO!" After reading all of the Toronto posts I feel a little better about it. Charlie was certainly liked by his hometown fans and that says something. But I also know that we were a better team when TJ was in there.
