So what are you going to do with Swift. He's a former player of Memphis who was happy to leave after they gave up on him and has been labelled as a type of player who has no work ethic and is a cancer to the team. Although he could be a great player he has had plenty of chances to prove himself and he hasn't. It seems the only benefit from Houston signing him again was that Yao couldn't get dunked on again last season... So are you going to make him sit on the bench all season, trade him for a contributing player or expiring contract Or give him another chance?
If Stro wants to play for this team, I`d give him another chance. Like you said, he has alot to prove and if he is willing to do it, I say keep him.
Well, the trade hasn't been made official yet, has it? My gut tells me that it's either going to fall through or another team will be added in the mix to simply take on Swift in return for something like cash or a future draft pick. If the deal does wind up sending Swift to Memphis though, I'd like to see him cut. We've had so many chemistry problems in the past, including ones that he's created, and we don't need to risk those problems again. What would likely happen though is that Swift would see lots and lots of bench time as West frantically searches for a team who'll take his contract. Fratello and Swift are still at odds from what I hear, and ever since Swift left, Tsakalidis has broken out and Gasol has been logging a lot of time at center, so I don't even see where he'd get his playing time if he were on Fratello's good side.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, the trade hasn't been made official yet, has it? My gut tells me that it's either going to fall through or another team will be added in the mix to simply take on Swift in return for something like cash or a future draft pick. If the deal does wind up sending Swift to Memphis though, I'd like to see him cut. We've had so many chemistry problems in the past, including ones that he's created, and we don't need to risk those problems again. What would likely happen though is that Swift would see lots and lots of bench time as West frantically searches for a team who'll take his contract. Fratello and Swift are still at odds from what I hear, and ever since Swift left, Tsakalidis has broken out and Gasol has been logging a lot of time at center, so I don't even see where he'd get his playing time if he were on Fratello's good side.</div> West has already spoken on acquiring Gay so, if anything, the Grizzlies just trade SWift to someone else. The trade itself will not be rescinded.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rocket:</div><div class="quote_post">West has already spoken on acquiring Gay so, if anything, the Grizzlies just trade SWift to someone else. The trade itself will not be rescinded.</div> Apparently the hold up is that Shane Battier does not become tradable as a BYC player until July 12th, but what I was saying is that before then, they could work another team into the deal, probably Toronto, with Mike James also headed to Houston. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I suggest going all Tonya Harding on him to make sure he fails the physical.</div> The guy's an addict... I'm sure he'll fail it anyway...
There was a recent report where Swift threatened he wouldn't report back to Memphis. This could hold the deal up, or force Houston to offer more compensation to get Battier. Similar to Gary Payton refusing to report to the Celtics a couple of seasons ago after the Lakers traded him. I'm sure Jerry West has another deal lined up to get rid of Swift. They didn't feel he was worth the full MLE when Houston signed, I doubt their opinion has changed.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">There was a recent report where Swift threatened he wouldn't report back to Memphis. This could hold the deal up, or force Houston to offer more compensation to get Battier. Similar to Gary Payton refusing to report to the Celtics a couple of seasons ago after the Lakers traded him. I'm sure Jerry West has another deal lined up to get rid of Swift. They didn't feel he was worth the full MLE when Houston signed, I doubt their opinion has changed.</div> Well, the Grizzlies need help in the frontcourt with Lorenzen Wright leaving in free agency, so if they officially acquired Swift in this deal and didn't want to just cut him, I'd expect a deal for a big man to take place. Afterall, this is a weak free agency class for big men, as it always seems to be, but if they started the season today they'd have to start either Jake Tsakalidis or Lawrence Roberts. So the post is a definite area of concern for us now... What I'm suggesting is a trade with New Orleans for David West and Marc Jackson. Both players are now expendable with the acquisition of Tyson Chandler and the drafting of Hilton Armstrong and Cedric Simmons. Keep in mind that Swift is also a Shreveport native and former LSU standout, and even in Oklahoma City, he'd put fans in the seats with his highlight reel blocks and dunks, so the Hornets would likely be open to bringing him in. In addition to Swift, the Grizzlies could throw in Dahntay Jones, a swingman who'll give them more defense than any of their current swingman, which is probably the Hornet's biggest problem area at this point. Here's how the deal looks on paper: Grizzlies Send: Stromile Swift Dahntay Jones Hornets Send: David West Marc Jackson
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting bronbron23:</div><div class="quote_post">I can't really see NOH giving up David West after his performance last season?</div> Yeah, that's a huge loss for New Orleans, and I'd throw in a 2008 first rounder (protected) and cash to compensate for that loss. Still, I think the Hornets would have to look seriously at the deal. Every indication is that they're going for a more defensively focussed lineup next season with the acquisition of Hilton Armstrong, Cedric Simmons, and Tyson Chandler. That makes David West and Marc Jackson, two sub-par defenders, expendable. Acquiring Dahntay Jones also gives them that perimeter defense that they've been looking for. There weren't any perimeter defenders in the draft worth the #12 or #15 picks, and Jones is about as good of a perimeter defender as they'll get through a trade without having to give up too much in return.
I think the Hornets will be playing a lotta small ball this year so West will still remain a key component. He's a nice scorer and rebounder and is clutch as well. West in exchange for Swift and Jones alone isn't even a fair deal.
Voodoo Child: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Every indication is that they're going for a more defensively focussed lineup next season with the acquisition of Hilton Armstrong, Cedric Simmons, and Tyson Chandler. That makes David West and Marc Jackson, two sub-par defenders, expendable.</div> I read recently with Armstrong and Simmons coming into the team, NOH will look to play David West at the Small Forward position at times. So there's another reason why I don't think he is "expendable". IMO he will be a key part of the team next year so Swift coming to NOH doesn't look like it's in the plans, but I wouldn't mind seeing D.Jones playing in NO he's a nice player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I think the Hornets will be playing a lotta small ball this year so West will still remain a key component. He's a nice scorer and rebounder and is clutch as well. West in exchange for Swift and Jones alone isn't even a fair deal.</div> Talent for talent, I agree with you, but you can't look at this deal in terms of which team gives up the most talent. New Orleans is satisfying a need for perimeter defense through this deal while giving up a player who currently doesn't really fill too much of a need. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting bronbron23:</div><div class="quote_post">Voodoo Child: I read recently with Armstrong and Simmons coming into the team, NOH will look to play David West at the Small Forward position at times. So there's another reason why I don't think he is "expendable". IMO he will be a key part of the team next year so Swift coming to NOH doesn't look like it's in the plans, but I wouldn't mind seeing D.Jones playing in NO he's a nice player.</div> I don't know who suggested playing David West at small forward, but I just can't see it. I saw him live eight times in 2003 when he played for Xavier, and the one thing that really stood out to me was how he lacked any perimeter skills whatsoever. His ball handling, his shot, and his first step are all subpar for what they should be for a player out on the wing. His game is just very well suited for the post. I know Swift doesn't seem to fit in, but he's merely a throw-in in that proposed trade. Even if the Hornets don't have any apparent need for him right now, he's a player who will get the fans excited and sell tickets, and he's a Louisiana native, which should help the fan base as well.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">There weren't any perimeter defenders in the draft worth the #12 or #15 picks, and Jones is about as good of a perimeter defender as they'll get through a trade without having to give up too much in return.</div> Sefolosha and Carney were both very good options, who are ever improving on the defensive end. If the Hornets do trade West, I think Simmons would have to be a proven player first, and show enough flashes to prove that West is worth trading to imrpove the team. West also has the ability to play the 3 (which played often last season) with a 2nd unit, or non starter unit, so the Hornets could go with a dangerous lineup at times with Peja at the 2, West at 3 and Simmons/Chandler/Armstrong in the front court. Certainly if they were going to trade away West, they would have to get more than Jones, a 1st rounder and Swift + his big contract. Teams would be lineing up to get West. The best the Grizzlies can hope for right now is hope that Swift performs well, better than he ever has before, and trade him while his value is high, as I'm assuming the market for Swift isn't very hot right now. Miles a couple years ago wasn't really improving on a brutal Cavs team, and even with LeBron, he was the same player, but all of a sudden on the Blazers he became dangerous. If Swift can pull something close to what Miles did a couple years ago, then there she be a couple of suitors for him
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting P.A.P.:</div><div class="quote_post">Sefolosha and Carney were both very good options, who are ever improving on the defensive end. If the Hornets do trade West, I think Simmons would have to be a proven player first, and show enough flashes to prove that West is worth trading to imrpove the team. West also has the ability to play the 3 (which played often last season) with a 2nd unit, or non starter unit, so the Hornets could go with a dangerous lineup at times with Peja at the 2, West at 3 and Simmons/Chandler/Armstrong in the front court. The best the Grizzlies can hope for right now is hope that Swift performs well, better than he ever has before, and trade him while his value is high, as I'm assuming the market for Swift isn't very hot right now. Miles a couple years ago wasn't really improving on a brutal Cavs team, and even with LeBron, he was the same player, but all of a sudden on the Blazers he became dangerous. If Swift can pull something close to what Miles did a couple years ago, then there she be a couple of suitors for him</div> Sefalosha's a decent defender, but how many years until he's a defender of Jones' caliber? He's not going to come right in and play that kind of defense. As for Carney, have you ever seen him play? Not only is he incredibly inconsistent as a defender, but he relies on his length and athleticism too much. That's why you saw him give shorter, slower players like J.J. Redick a hard time, whereas Adam Morrison lit him up for 34 points. He's got a long way to go if he wants to be effective defensively in a league where almost every other wing has his length and athleticism. As for David West's ability to play the three, since when did he play there last season? I may not have seen every Hornets game, but I can look at the numbers, and the fact that he played only 5% of their small forward minutes is a great indication that they seldomly used him there. I know his game well, and he's just not quick enough and doesn't have the kind of perimeter skills offensively to be anything but a liability as a three.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post"> As for David West's ability to play the three, since when did he play there last season? I may not have seen every Hornets game, but I can look at the numbers, and the fact that he played only 5% of their small forward minutes is a great indication that they seldomly used him there. I know his game well, and he's just not quick enough and doesn't have the kind of perimeter skills offensively to be anything but a liability as a three.</div> Well I guess often is not the word, but he played 6% of the the teams total minutes at SF, with Mason, Snyder and Butler logging the most minutes, and at times he was able to play the 3 where he was effective. In many of the Hornets game where I watched him this year, he played SF for periods of time and was effective. Also, I didn't say he is a 3, I said he has the ability to play the 3 where the Hornets can be creative in their frontline and use him there, given the fact when he did play it last year, he wasn't half bad for a player of his height and athleticsm. Plus with Chandler, Simmons/Armstrong playing behind him, his quickness against the offensive player won't be exposed as much. I only meant in my statements that he's good for the 3 for stretches during the game where he can play with the 2nd unit or other players, not like for half the game. Anyways the point I tried to make in my last paragraph was that if the Hornets do trade West, which is doubtful considering the fact that he came off a 17 and 8 year in his first season with consistent minutes and a big role, Swift+Jones+1st rounder isn't going to be nearly enough. Even if the Hornets do have a good young crop of bigs, it'll be a while before they considering moving their best scoring big man, with Armstrong and Chandler being defensive players, and Simmons being a developing offensive player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting P.A.P.:</div><div class="quote_post">Well I guess often is not the word, but he played 6% of the the teams total minutes at SF, with Mason, Snyder and Butler logging the most minutes, and at times he was able to play the 3 where he was effective. In many of the Hornets game where I watched him this year, he played SF for periods of time and was effective. Also, I didn't say he is a 3, I said he has the ability to play the 3 where the Hornets can be creative in their frontline and use him there, given the fact when he did play it last year, he wasn't half bad for a player of his height and athleticsm. Plus with Chandler, Simmons/Armstrong playing behind him, his quickness against the offensive player won't be exposed as much. I only meant in my statements that he's good for the 3 for stretches during the game where he can play with the 2nd unit or other players, not like for half the game.</div> Snyder plays the two almost exclusively from what I've seen, so that leaves you with Mason and Butler as his competition last season on the three, not exactly and All-Star cast, especially considering the unusual, injury-plagued year Mason was having. The fact that West played 6%* of New Orlean's small forward minutes is a very underwhelming argument in trying to convince me that he's capable of playing out there, when in actuality, his game is better suited for the center position. According to 82games.com, where I assume you got that 6%* number, the only time he played the three was when Bostjan Nachbar was used as a four. While I'm not really one to question the accuracy of a credible and in-depth site like 82games.com, Nachbar's more of a three. His whole game is perimeter oriented, and West's game is much more suited to low-post play, so I'd assume that the times in which they were on the court together, they each played to their strengths, it'd only make sense. I'm not sure how or why West got recorded as a three, and maybe he actually did play out on the perimeter, I just don't think he can play that position on a consistent basis, and nothing I've seen since I've tracked his games live as Muskateer to his games as a Hornet has suggested that he can. You make a good point that his quickness wouldn't be exposed so much defensively with a great shot-blocking frontline behind him, but what about offensively? His whole game is based out of the post. He just doesn't have the type of handle or range to be an effective perimeter player. I know that you didn't mean that he could play the three for long stretches, and I hate to nit-pick, but I just don't even see his being used as a three for short stretches if everyone on the roster's in full health. That lack of versatility creates a logjam in the post. Chandler's sort of a combo of a four and a five, although I assume with the Hornets he'll play almost all of his time at the five. Armstrong's really too small to play the five, mostly in terms of body mass, which will probably land him as a four, and Simmons is almost unquestionably a four. Then you've got returning sophomore Brandon Bass, who they started investing consistent playing time in towards the end of the season, when they were still in playoff contention. That gives their frontcourt a look of - PF - West/Simmons/Bass/Armstrong with Chandler logging time C - Chandler/Jackson That lineup's very crowded at the four, and with the assumption that West's game is limited to the post, it makes little sense to me that New Orleans would draft back to back fours if they had that much confidence in West. I'm a fan of his game, and I know what an amazing season he had, but at this point, he's spearheading their logjam at the four and is therefore understandable trade bait. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyways the point I tried to make in my last paragraph was that if the Hornets do trade West, which is doubtful considering the fact that he came off a 17 and 8 year in his first season with consistent minutes and a big role, Swift+Jones+1st rounder isn't going to be nearly enough. Even if the Hornets do have a good young crop of bigs, it'll be a while before they considering moving their best scoring big man, with Armstrong and Chandler being defensive players, and Simmons being a developing offensive player.</div> As I said earlier in this thread, the move wouldn't be even in terms of talent for talent, but how many NBA trades are? Shaquille O'Neal was dealt for just Lamar Odom and spare pieces, Jason Kidd was traded for Stephon Marbury, and Dirk Nowizki was traded for Tractor Traylor. The Hornets would have to think about the deal no matter how lopsided it is because they're a team that could use a backup center (enter Swift) and could most importantly use a defensive presence on the wing (enter Jones).
