So far patrick o'bryant has been doing pretty bad =/. are we in big trouble?? and we dont have ellis or diogu playing, but will bynum is doing great. i hope hes with the warriors next year.
From what i read he does not like share the ball to much, and he is basicly "Fisher Mark II". On the other hand Barea is realy nice pure PG. When he is playing, team plays a lot better then with Bynum, and Barea stets up plays for our bigs... Steven Smith seams to have some potencial too... Have not seen McLeod in action, but if warriors trade him away or have no plans to use him, then we should get Barea. And you can get nice recaps of games at http://www.draftexpress.com/
No need to panic -- many current Hall of Famers had poor summer leagues their rookie years, no doubt. It would be nice if he came out and scored 40 pts 20 rbs, but it's way too early to know with Cheescake. Even by the all-star break next year will be to early -- give him a year at the pro level at least. edit: This coming from a guy who posted -- on draft night -- that the POB pick was a stale fart. But we have him now, regardless, so let's hope he blossoms into a cross between Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell.
POB is showing some flashes of what he can do, but it looks it's to hard for him to fit in NBA style of play so fast... I just hope he is atleast capable to take Foyle spot on team this season...
He's a project, so what we see is what we get for now. It may not be that way years from now where he might suddenly "get it". Considering that the Warriors haven't drafted a decent big man at center in a long, long time, my confidence is shaky. Not since 1980 have we had a decent center. Here's what I think: I haven't seen the games to personally guage POB's real impact. Even if a guy is pretty quiet on a stat sheet, he could do a variety of things to change the game in the way his position is expected to. Just look at Ike Diogu when he isn't scoring. He's giving us Brian Cardinal like intangibles and he's doing the dirtywork/grittiness that Troy Murphy (post-rookie-$$$contract) won't do as a power forward. Also, imagine any game where Dunleavy isn't pressured to score, he's a guy that will make the extra pass, space the floor, score within the flow, and generally look to make others better (he'd do better at this if he wasn't so slow and unaggressive). Those Dunleavy positives are all chemistry things that promote easy high% scores, whereas a guy looking to score for himself like Fisher /Pietrus/ Murphy, those guys could easily disrupt the offense as much as Baron Davis when he doesn't pass. There are also some guys that get lost on the court a lot, (see Pietrus) and POB could just be lost right now. It's hard to suddenly know your role on a newly assembled team mostly dominated by combo guards. Just see Ellis last year + other guards when Ike/Biedrins was involved. They could not feed Ike one decent entry pass into the post without taking him out of deep position. It was horrible. So I don't expect big men to really dominate in these meaningless summer leagues where the chemistry/organization between players is lower and the pace is faster because of guard-play (it's just like our own rookie ball!). But even though Ellis couldn't feed the post for crap last year, his presence on both ends of the floor and scoring the ball were spectacular. His low fg% and low assist numbers didn't really illustrate the things he was doing to raise the level of play of everyone else. It also didn't show what he was trying to do to help the scoring situation and breaking down defenses. Sometimes, if guys aren't scoring the ball well or the other four guys aren't moving to get the other defenses moving, the guards have to take over as scorers and try to do something about it. Unfortunately, it becomes a low % game if guys aren't playing big and the other four guys are just standing around. Sound familiar? The good news is that any one of Biedrins/POB/Taft is going to be better than Foyle soon or a little bit later. Just having hands, running the floor, being able to rebound, and block shots is a start. Just look at what Biedrins would be able to do if he wasn't so raw and so foul prone (60% fg! est. double double). I'm nervous about POB, but POB does have an NCAA and college record, which is probably less risky than going for some 7 foot euroballer that started playing last week or some high school center that may end up only as good as Tyson Chandler or Eddy Curry. Those two are centers that play one end of the floor and not the other. It's why they are getting traded.
I agree with Custodian. The Warriors summer league team is basically like a Chicago/Orlando pre-draft camp team. Guards like Bynum, Barea, and Stinson are all trying to make the team, so they're dominating the ball, just like guards do in the pre-draft camps when they're trying to get noticed. Bynum and Stinson are scoring guards naturally, so I don't really blame them, it's just the way things are. As for O'Bryant and Biedrins relative lack of production, it is a bit disturbing. They're playing on a team dominated by guard play, and they're playing in games that don't really matter, so I can understand the lack of scoring. But, I'm very disappointed in O'Bryant's rebounding numbers (or lack thereof) thus far. Even if he's not getting touches on offense, he should still be rebounding. The one silver lining here is that I'd almost prefer he not put up big numbers in the summer so that fans will keep their expectations tempered. Two years ago Nickoloz Tskitshvili averaged 25.7 points and 6 boards for Denver's summer league and was one of the top five players in the Rocky Mountain summer league. But he showed almost no imporvement in his game that year in the NBA regular season. I'd hate to see O'Bryant average similar numbers and have fans here proclaiming him to be a can't miss future all star, only to be let down and calling for his head two summers from now. I've seent that happen here two many times before.
Well, can't say I am encouraged with POB and his summer league performance. And, it doesn't seem like he will threat starting job this season. But, we drafted POB because of his body, not because of his brain, and we already put him as a good 3 years project anyway. And, summer league is basically a collection of college all-stars, and guys like POB, who don't have much skill to rely on, will struggle initially. Actually, wasn't Diogu struggled in his first few games as well? So, I will give POB a break for quite some time. After all, he is over 7 feet and breathing. That alone is enough to be an asset...
Summer league performance isn't really that good of an indicator of how they'll do in the NBA. Remember, Tskitishvili was the summer league MVP when he was a rookie.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AnimeFANatic:</div><div class="quote_post">Summer league performance isn't really that good of an indicator of how they'll do in the NBA. Remember, Tskitishvili was the summer league MVP when he was a rookie.</div> Yeah, alot of scrubs play well in SL but don't turn out any good. It's not as common to see someone suck and then be good in the NBA but I think Frye didnt do very well last year and he seems pretty solid. Ike couldnt post up or score inside worth a damn last year in summer league, all he could do was shoot jumpers. I specifically remember him playing poorly and looking overwhelmed by Boston's young big men. Obviously, you'd like to see POB playing well but the guy has barely ever played against good competition other than a few NCAA tournament games. Right now theres not much reason to worry but if he doesnt improve after a year of being acclimated to the competition, athleticism, and speed in the NBA then I would be a little nervous. Chris Kaman was a project after coming out his junior year from a small college (he put up similar sophmore stats to POB) so I'm willing to be pretty pacient with POB.
Ah wtwalker and AF, nice bringing up old skita. I thought that guy was going to rock out with his sock out, but just goes to show... meaningless games is right. It's what you can do over a period of time rather than just a few games here and there. Just see Dunleavy and Pietrus for validation of why neither should start as of this moment. Players who want to be starters in this league have to be consistent a majority of games in a season every single year and set the tone in something. If they're not, they are either out of the league or they have to play lower minutes in order to be consistent. The POB draft pick is making everybody scared because he doesn't seem very passionate like Dampier/Dunleavy came off as and POB is probably seen as raw as Pietrus/Biedrins (euro projects). Like Kwan said, all body, not much of the mental game. That scares me. In the POB comparrisons to DraftCity/DraftExpress's Chris Kaman comparrisons, I didn't think Kaman would be that good because he was just mentally not there yet, but he impressed me with his athleticism and his ability to score the ball with either hand very well. He's demonstrated playing up to his size several times this year. Right now POB seems small/right hand dependent, but I wouldn't read anything into it since he's a project. I'm sure him not going after rebounds as aggressively, might have been caused by that whole incident with Monta Ellis. I don't want POB injuring any more warriors players.
But if you dont do well in the summer league, most likely u wont do well in the NBA =[. im really disappointed that o'bryant only got total of 3 rebounds in 2 games. thats just sad for a center. i think we should trade for a big guy instead of al harrington, or else we will lose the rebounding battle.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorsfan:</div><div class="quote_post">But if you dont do well in the summer league, most likely u wont do well in the NBA =[. im really disappointed that o'bryant only got total of 3 rebounds in 2 games. thats just sad for a center. i think we should trade for a big guy instead of al harrington, or else we will lose the rebounding battle.</div> I don't like the Harrington SF/PF tweener trade as well. It doesn't help defense, rebounding, outside shooting, or ball movement at all... It's why he's a scorer's mentality starter on a bad team and a scoring backup on a playoff team. Most importantly, if our big men can't score down low, then we need good all-around big man defenders who can snag offensive rebounds, get putbacks, and get back in transition enough to beat their own assignment. This requires guys who can get deep position in the post and also are smart/athletic/strong enough to defend weakside/deep in the post or get back in transition. I can't stress how overrated Foyle is in terms of overall defense. He's not an all-around defender and he's pretty useless in getting any inside-outside play going for this team on offense. Sadly, Dampier would have been better because at least guards are trying to figure out a way to get a center involved now that we have a pure point with Baron Davis and Fisher who knew how to feed big men (if they had the capability to score down low). Damp can score down low, it's just that's he's not a huge threat nor is he that skilled with his hands. Still, it's better than Foyle who is downright ungainly and clumsier than clumsy or looking for Murphy who is too weak for centers, too slow for power forwards. I swear ever since Murphy got money he's become softer on defense, further and further away from the basket even though there's other options to pass or move in closer... Luckily, he gets to the foul line and makes his shots... Still, the number of threes he took was ridiculous if we're without a low post scoring center. We tried Diogu down low but he can't play against centers and power forwards will just latch on to Murphy on defense.
obryant is looking betternow in the sumemr league, cept the number of fouls -___- dang 8-9 fouls in like 20 mins.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Warriorsfan:</div><div class="quote_post">obryant is looking betternow in the sumemr league, cept the number of fouls -___- dang 8-9 fouls in like 20 mins.</div> Yeah, 15 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks, 8 fouls in 20 minutes today. So far hes shot 100% from the FT line in summer league, which should be a breath of fresh air. http://www.vegassummerleague.com/box_score.cfm?game=75
It's too bad POB doesn't know how to get to the foul line like a true vet. He'll probably be really streaky until he finally gets it. It's the risk we're taking since there's no nba ready centers for us to pick from at #9... Plus, free agency or trades never land us any decent big player.
If he played like 5 more mins, he could have gotten triple double. 16 pts 10 rebounds and 15 fouls... Maybe, he is getting used to the league, putting up better numbers each game. Still, it would be nice to see Diogu, Monta and Biedrins...
It's like last season where fans cried about Ike Diogu and he ended up putting up some very respectable games during summer league. Hopefully POB will do well in the upcoming games because 15 points, 8 rebounds in 20 minutes ain't that bad, plus 5/5 free throwing. Once guys figure out how to consistently get to the foul line and convert, they can get all kinds of two pointers and three pointers that way. It's a way higher % game than poor free throw shooting, high volume outside shooting guards dominating the ball. We'll see how POB develops over the course of a few years... Hopefully he won't develop into Eddy Curry or Tyson Chandler, but an all-around player. By the time he peaks, I hope we have a decent backcourt that can feed the low post and learn to shoot.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting iLL PiLL:</div><div class="quote_post">i dunno anything about summer leagues but u dont get fouled out?</div> 10 fouls is the limit. In a guard oriented league where guys are getting beat and everyone is hopping around for rebounds trying to pad stats, I bet that's good for players, especially big men on defense or trying to gain position against smaller players... Plus summer leagues mean rookie refs...
Note - AB did not play today, looks like injury is more serious than it looked, that makes 4 youngsters on injury list - Diogu, Taft, Ellis and Biedrins.
