<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">WHAT MAKES SENSE? Sekou Smith - Staff Thursday, July 13, 2006 Three deals that make sense as the Hawks try to move unrestricted free agent Al Harrington: > Sign Harrington and trade him to Indiana for Jeff Foster, Anthony Johnson and a future draft pick. Foster's reasonable salary ($5.2 million and $5.7 million over the next two seasons with a player option for a third) has made him one of the talked-about trade pieces of the summer. His rebounding prowess, 6-foot-11, 250-pound frame and lunch-pail attitude are things that would most benefit the young Hawks. Johnson has two years (at less than $2.9 million per season) left on his contract and would round out a much-improved Hawks backcourt rotation. And draft picks are always a plus. > Sign Harrington and trade him to Golden State for Troy Murphy and Mickael Pietrus. Murphy is expensive ($10 million per season over the next five years) but he rebounds (averaging 10.4 the past two seasons) and hits jumpers from 17 feet. Pietrus is the deal sweetener. Much like his friend and French countryman Boris Diaw, the athletic swingman is poised for a breakout season in the right situation and should be eager to prove himself in a contract season. > A three-team deal that would send Harrington to Golden State, Murphy to Milwaukee and Jamaal Magloire to the Hawks. Magloire's expiring contract ($8.3 million this season) works perfectly for a Hawks team that seeks to maintain its salary-cap flexibility. And he is the veteran bruiser they lacked last season. Magloire has helped anchor the middle for playoff teams in New Orleans and Milwaukee.</div> http://www.ajc.com/thursday/content/epaper...79311400ce.html Uh, sorry Sekou, but frankly that doesn't make any sense at all. 1.)The Hawks have a terrific emerging center in Zaza Pachulia -- why would they use their most valuable chip to get a back-up center? (no knock on Foster). Surely they could get a starter in return for Harrington. 2.)Heh -- Mullin will have to think twice about giving up Murphy for Harrington straight up, but I'll tell you right now he'd be a numb-skull to toss in Pietrus to "sweeten the deal." That's just a bunch of horseshit. 3.) Why would those teams do a 3-way? Why wouldn't GS trade Murphy to Milwaukee for Magloire straight up? His contract is better, it ends soon, and he's probably a better fit. But at least he'll come off the books in a year. I guess you never know, but this writer seems to be playing the same game that all of us forum fans are.
Which is why articles that tend to speculate, rather than report facts, need lots of salt... I don't like it when Kwan predicts the future and everything he said three years ago is sort of coming true right now. The luxury tax... the lack of flexibility... damn... I wonder how this all could have been avoided because the GMs must not have foreseen it. But then again, it's pretty risky biz overpaying two 30 year old vets for millions of dollars/6 years so a GM is basically gambling with his job. It's like you better hope that team is a playoff team or it's going to be lots of misery for years to come and little breathing room to get better. I wonder if Cohan will give Mullin time to fix it... I sure hope we don't self destruct though. We're close enough. We've got a star or two on the outside and a possible star on the inside. That's the closest we've ever been. We're almost reaching that successful formula IMO...
Honestly I thought we were close enough last year. Who knows what would've been, with a healthy Baron Davis... maybe we'll finally get to see this year. Utah was close last year too, if they could've stayed healthy. They went from a 6th-seed projection, IMO, to missing the playoffs at 41-41. With the way our guys were playing, it looked like we had a terrific, flexible, versatile formula. Uh, except for the center. We had nothing there, but I honestly thought in 05-06 Biedrins would at least claim the starter's role for good. But with Troy, MDJ, JRich, and Baron, I thought we had a pretty dynamic package of talent that could win games in different ways every night, whether it's JRich going for 40, or Troy getting 20 and 16, or MDJ flirting with a triple dub. I've seen flashes of what it could be -- afterall on paper, with a decent/good center, this is a playoff type of starting cast IMO -- however many times this combination looked like crap. Everyone standing around, watching one person (NOT always Baron) hold the ball and jack up an ill-advised three. Oh thank god Derek Fisher is gone. Ah. Geez. Ugh. Thank you. That guy..... he thought he was Jordan, would pound the ball for twenty seconds, and then try an Allen Iverson "and-1" double-cross-over fade-away three from half-court. Derek Fisher was probably, IMO, the most significant reason this team got so stagnant at times. But back to the now. This current "starting 4" if you will, with the addition of a decent center, to me it looks like a winner. You've got everything there -- a dominant point-guard (when healthy and in shape), a dominant scoring guard (when he gets hot and makes free throws), a versatile "jack-of-all-trades" roleplayer in MDJ (when he shows up mentally and physically), and a dynamic inside-out big guy who can rebound and also stretch the defense (when he's not bricking outside shots instead of rebounding like a true PF). However, this group had some serious "chemistry" or "leadership" or "coaching" issues, whatever you will, at times they looked completely out of sync. Maybe it was Monty, trying to slow it down in the half-court set and taking the players out of their natural flow; maybe it was Baron not getting other guys involved (although IMO he tried, time and again, to get the ball to a big man after penetration); maybe it was Dunleavy or JRich or whoever not stepping up and being vocal, or not asserting themselves in their role; whatever the case, the potential of what this package could be never really came to fruition IMO. I honestly think this current roster could be a quality playoff team. But so could the Hawks or Bobcats, for that matter, if they come together. THese guys can get it done; the question is whether they will find a way to do that. I don't think it means going out and trying to find a new player. If you're having a conflict in a relationship or a puzzle to solve at the office, you don't necessarily just go out and find a new replacement for the problem. That doesn't always work. Instead, it is often wiser to take the pieces of the puzzle that are in front of you, separate them, identify them, and then calmly and intelligently put them back together. Don't get me wrong, I like to entertain trade ideas. I don't mind flirting with the Harrington for Murphy idea. It may or may not be a good call. And if we can somehow get an exceptional, thick, strong, solid BIG man to own the center position and make the opposition earn what they get in the paint, all the better. But I'm sticking by my analysis from last year (granted the Fisher trade changes things a bit). I think this current roster, on paper, is not only playoff caliber, but is a winner. If an excellent center emerges, they could vie for a title if everything comes together. I know this may sound a little too vague (like what does "come together mean?") If the Hawks could "come together" could they vie for a title? Possibly. What I mean is that if the Warriors could find a way to sustain at least close to the level of play they have shown flashes of achieving (like the end of 04-05 when they were just running fools out the gym,), and do this consistently, they can vie for a title. It will take that fifth piece, someone to take ownership of the center position and be solid inside. Whether that's BEans, POB, Taft, or Foyle, my goodness that's 4 guys and we only need 1 good one! The puzzle is waiting to be put together. It is going to take a collective effort to achieve unity, but the pieces are there. Making it work is the issue.
For Atl,A front line of Murphy-Sheldon-Josh Smith would mean 3 scorers/rebounders. With Zaza around too-they just ask Murph to be more aggressive on D. Simple. Murphy can quickly learn to do anything Zaza can. The Warriors fail to take a few steps that way and so it costs us. CPH is right,we are suckers to add in Pietrus,but ---gee--it's such a hassle for Monty to actually have to work with players just like they were real people-so we take a loss and move on in whatever direction.
In overall principle-I do agree with the above post by Chris Porters Hair. We have the parts. Some assembly required. A year ago-I was in the Let's see mode as to Monty. Well,now my view is that at best-he's in the bottom bunch of NBA coaches. I saw little synchronicity,retarded player development,tactics that seemed more hindrance than help. It seemed Monty was oblivious to the true skills or limits of most of the players and guys got put into situations where they could not bring their best stuff. The assorted players probably did need to play smarter,to work on some details--but a coach is supposed to see those needs way before I do and do something to improve it. I'm a spectator,was never a coachor even a good player,but I saw so much basketball history I can see what's right and wrong and Monty's coaching ain't right. I think I could sit down,have a 30 min chat with Baron,Troy,Pietrus,and point out 2 or 3 key adjustments to make-and convince them that it's a priority thing to do. These ARE guys who WANT to win. Something about Dunleavy...I just can't decode. He can have a sweet game-20 and 8...then is 2 for 11 with matador defense the next 2 games. My first thing- PLEASE establish that you can hit a 15 ft J before you launch a bunch of 25 footers. Don't just pass around the arc-be the guy who relays it to a man in close. I kind of think there's some obscure syndrome-mental block and he actually needs some process,theraputic plan to get his head on straight. If he had ANY trade value-I'd let someone else worry 'bout that. For us? well,if we are getting Harrington-he's not excellent but at least is a consistant scoring SF. Best scenario---we turn Pietrus into the guy (all the time) we saw flashes of. That means a fast pace style and a coach with some vision and creativity.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">In overall principle-I do agree with the above post by Chris Porters Hair. </div> I'm listed at 6'3" -- 6'7" with my afro. Seriously, I remember when Chris Porter was going to be the Warriors starting shooting guard. I think Vonteego Cummings was pegged as a long-term starter. Then Larry Hughes came, and he was thought to be the saviour of the franchise. I thought Jason Caffey was going to be a double-double guy. Marc Jackson was the next Arvitas Sebonis. But then we traded him for Dean Garrett and a 7th round pick in 2045. What ever happened to Dean Garrett? We scored him in that trade. Man that was a brilliant coup by St. Jean. I'm suprised St. JEan never put together a winner, what with all these powerful pieces he amassed: Bob Sura, Chris Porter, Vontego Cummings, Mookie Blaylock, Vinnie Del Negro, Danny Fortson, Ruben Garces, Eric Dampier, Bill Curley, Adam Keefe, Chris Mills, John Coker, Corey Blount, Mark Jackson, Jason Caffey, Billy Owens, Terry Cummings, Bimbo Coles, Felton Spencer
I thought we had the best offer with Murphy and MP even though it was the most expensive with Murph's contract. The ajc.com poll shows the readers like Magloire. We still get Al Harrington: Which of Sekou Smith's three trade scenarios involving Al Harrington works best for the Hawks? Hawks get Jeff Foster, Anthony Johnson and draft pick from Pacers. 28.79% 458 Hawks add Troy Murphy and Mickael Pietrus from Warriors. 31.11% 495 Hawks land Jamaal Magloire in 3-team deal. 40.10% 638
That's telling that their fans would rather have Magloire over Murphy and Pietrus. It's not that much more $$, and Pietrus could potentially become a very good asset in a future sign-n-trade. It's still close at 40% to 31%, however. I don't know. The Warriors roster could be so damn interesting if they'd just gel they way they showed they could in 04-05. Man those games were fun to watch at the end of the season. Granted the pressure was off, but they still produced on the court and it was fun to watch. And it seemed like Baron could do no wrong. Even MDJ showed flashes of brilliance. I won't mind a trade if it'll shake some life into this club. Harrington could very well be a terrific option for Baron to use during lane penetration. Murph always seemed a little stiff and flat-footed when Baron would explode in the paint. It didn't help that he camped on the 3-pt-arc either (although it was pretty for a while when he was draining rainbows). Harrington isn't primarily a back-to-basket type player, but he's nifty around the rim and in the paint. IMO he'll be able to finish alot better than Murphy on "creative" type plays. And with Murph gone, it'll put the onus on Ike to step up and on Montgomery to play him. This I like. If we had a scoring center, then I'd question getting Harrington. I'd rather have an MDJ guy at the SF to help "facilitate." But GS has no scoring option at the center. The only scoring big we have is Murphy, and with him gone hopefully it'll be Ike. So Harrington and Ike can share that load and Beans or Foyle can block shots.
Harrington's value to us is that he's a usable SF. He's attractive IF Atl see's they have limited options. Whatever the rumors are-at some point the Hawks move it or lose it. The Bulls CAN say WTF? step in-sign Harrington and deal Deng for high value,the Bobs can do likewise-get a lot for G Wallace. Harrington can do a 1 year MLE deal almost anywhere,bypass the Hawks,look to get his $ next year. Atlanta is hopeful we are dumb desperate sluts and with some poking and proding we cave in and give them the pick of the litter,we give up a package of prime prospects-picks-add yet another $10 mill contract to the payroll. Reading between the lines of Monty on KNBR yesterday- the Warriors are not at all keen on getting a ton of proposals where we toss around starters,recent lotto picks,Monta---and they give squat-want no "contracts" back,want us to take some Cap-Fill junk. There was a tone of frustration-disgust,a sense that the W's are pretty tired of the haggling and obstacles and want to move on to something fresh---or just stay as-is.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">How about let's just tank and enjoy a top 5 lottery pick in '07 </div> Easy enough,we keep Monty the whole season,we swap at least one good talent for a bozo Maybe even do one of those rumor deals where we unload the whole roster for one " big name" who's past his prime or a head-case who will pout when he's not appeased. It's competitive at the bottom,but some of the usual suspects have made a bit of progress and we have a shot at being a wreck. I figure our negative momentum would only result in bad pingpong luck and we pick the Dunleavy of the 07 crop...then think about our slot in 08 When it comes to flopping and earning a high pick---we have the know-how.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm listed at 6'3" -- 6'7" with my afro. Seriously, I remember when Chris Porter was going to be the Warriors starting shooting guard. I think Vonteego Cummings was pegged as a long-term starter. Then Larry Hughes came, and he was thought to be the saviour of the franchise. I thought Jason Caffey was going to be a double-double guy. Marc Jackson was the next Arvitas Sebonis. But then we traded him for Dean Garrett and a 7th round pick in 2045. What ever happened to Dean Garrett? We scored him in that trade. Man that was a brilliant coup by St. Jean. I'm suprised St. JEan never put together a winner, what with all these powerful pieces he amassed: Bob Sura, Chris Porter, Vontego Cummings, Mookie Blaylock, Vinnie Del Negro, Danny Fortson, Ruben Garces, Eric Dampier, Bill Curley, Adam Keefe, Chris Mills, John Coker, Corey Blount, Mark Jackson, Jason Caffey, Billy Owens, Terry Cummings, Bimbo Coles, Felton Spencer</div> Now there's a memory lane that brings back some nightmares..... What is notable-you browse that list of GSW "Stars of the 90's" and note that our recent records have not been much better. With the current roster,PJ Carlisimo,Dave Cowans-even Adelman might have cruised to a playoff slot. Remember when Donyell was a bum to unload and Caffey was the future? Now Donyell still has a big role on a playoff team and Caffey sells Auto parts at Kragen.
I say Warriors management nees to stop crying cross their fingers and stop pretending like they don't have a clue . With all the bickering that's going on it just seems like Mully needs to set this whole roster on fire , afterall Santa knows who's been naughty or nice and the way it looks now, he won't be bringing Mully any treats this year . If Montgomery can crack his whip find a way to get his players to cooperate then I think Cohan will consider keeping him . If he can get these gus to produce, the fans will respond in the stands and at the pub and even Thunder will raise the roof . Then Mullin will give the approval sign for Cohan to keep Monty. But the way it looks now, he can only dream of a title without some help in the paint because Foyle just doesn't get it and no amount of coaching will help because frankly when he tries to catch a pass he's all thumbs :. We need a guy who's hungry, who'll call for the bal in the paint and not be shy to dish out a little punishment . We need some swagger; a guy who's not afraid to show the other team up , who can get on fire and quiet the crowd in the clutch So go ahead Mully, its yo birthday we gonna pardy like its yo birthday , and if you're able to find a guy who can average a double double at the center position, I'll be shocked but stoked and I'll even give you a free shot for all the flak you've been taking, but just don't punch me in the gut or I might . Warriors Playoffs in 2006 Baby!!!!!!
I think Alley Oop's post above would for getting Al Harrington on the Warriors for Murphy and MP . That would give Ike some starter minutes at PF and Dun can play without Murphy getting in his way. But if we don't get AL, I don't mind REREM's post of sucking and drafting for 2007.
I'd do Murphy for Harrington straight up, but I wouldn't toss in Pietrus. That's too much. Pietrus has some trade value and also some potential. But if we don't get Al, I don't think we'll suck in 07. I'm not sure we'd be any better with or without Harrington. What's more important is that this current starting core finds some smooth chemistry flow and starts moving the ball. Maybe Harrington would shake it up. Maybe Murphy can help find that this year. Either way, the Warriors could be a playoff team next year IMO.
Yeah, but we're over the cap and have competition from the Pacers. It's not like we're just dealing with ATL. Also, we have to give close to or what Harrington is asking for cause he won't take the MLE and that involves a sign-and-trade. ATL can afford to wait it out because there is no need for them to make a deal today. I think the Warriors have the most need to do a deal now because there aren't many teams interested in Murphy. Mullin couldn't trade Murph + #9 in order to move up before the draft. MP sweetens the deal for ATL. I also think Milwaukee isn't interested in taking Murphy anymore because they have Charlie Villanueva. They rather have a backup PG and SG. If they'll take MP and a big contract from us, then we could get them to send Magloire to ATL. But that's very doubtful. If we don't trade Murphy soon, we'll be stuck with him for another season and that would hurt Ike's growth.
That's really the one reason why I'd encourage a Murphy trade. More important than what we could get is doing something with Murph's bloated contract and opening up time for Ike. Damn I wish we would've nabbed that fat $7.5 mil. trade exception. We had one a few years ago but we never used it lol and it expired. WTF
It's all about opportunity. If we wait a while longer, something good may come up in a trade for Murphy. The one thing that is scaring teams away from Murphy's contract is the years left on it. Teams are trying to avoid a bloated team salary so they can have the flexibility to respond to their weaknesses exposed in the playoffs/regular season. That's often hard to do with just the MLE... Lesson learned: Never put too much blind faith in a rookie GM that has no idea what he's doing because he's never been GM before. At least with Monty he's coached before, but that's only with his type of players and against way better competition than he's seen in the Pac10. Who knows... maybe even his best Stanford team he put together (which routinely rejects even the best players in the nation for having below adequate grades to qualify) could kick the ass of our current team with Baron Davis injured. Well not really... at least at free throws, shooting, and passing the ball it would. We got to have a team of 5 solid guys. If we can't have that, then we need to go shopping for guys like Tim Duncan or D-wade in the draft. Somebody that can give us dominance in both ends of the floor, both inside or outside. If we don't have that we'll just be mediocre and seeing the 9th or 11th pick for years to come. That's how much faith I have in our GMs to make moves in order to improve the franchise. The reason why the Grizzlies have gotten better is because they make smart trades for very solid vets that play defense, that play well together, and they can help the rookies along. They also have a star player in the paint, something we've never had. While they made a big mistake overpaying Brian Cardinal, how many players have we overpaid and got in the way of improving the franchise long term? With guys who don't know, we can either be mad or just be patient with those guys who don't know. Those are the only real choices we fans have unless we're going to not pay attention to the Warriors any longer. It's a shame because Warriors fans deserve a team that can win. It's like a guy is walking straight into a wall and we don't know if he's going to hit that wall or move out of the way at the last second. It's definitely hard to be optimistic with the Warriors not hitting the wall. But anything could happen. This ridiculousness has got to end sometime. If some ownership suddenly came in and installed the guys who knew how to put together a winning team, then we could easily point out at Cohan! But, he's only one factor of why this franchise stinks. I'm sure if he had an elite franchise player, it would be easier to find direction...
