<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">"Your first sentence proves your laziness." There's one and all of your posts are riddled with backhanded comments. </div> This is a fact. If he had read my other posts, my POV is clearly stated. "Haters" is more of a reference on the outside world not a reflection of all the people on your side of the discussion. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Where have I posted something without legit facts?</div> Misleading facts. And you know which one. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> And where are my sensitive posts? If anything you're the one heavily on the defensive because some random people on the internet don't like your favorite player (or at least you label them a Kobe hater whether they do or do not like him). You should learn to just let it go because it's part of the territory of having Kobe be one of your favorite players; people will never stop "hating" him.</div> Your sensitive post is your previous one. I'm "heavily defensive" when I see a weak/misleading argument. I let it go when I feel like it, I argue when I feel like it. Pretty simple. Indeed though, people will never stop hating but whatever.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">This is a fact. If he had read my other posts, my POV is clearly stated.</div> Lol, ok. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Misleading facts. And you know which one.</div> Ok, 1 "misleading" fact. It doesn't stand a chance against your facts that someone is lazy because you assume they didn't read the thread. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Your sensitive post is your previous one. I'm heavily defensivie when I see a weak argument. I let it go when I feel like it, I argue when I feel like it. Pretty simple. Indeed though, people will never stop hating but whatever.</div> Ok thanks for more facts, maybe we can argue again some time. Have a great life.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">Lol, ok. Ok, 1 "misleading" fact. It doesn't stand a chance against your facts that someone is lazy because you assume they didn't read the thread.</div> Guy, you made a deceiving point (I said "facts", in plural, if you consider the number of names you erroneously put in Wilt's "best seasons" era). You tried to sneak it in, but it didn't work, too bad. And the other kid didn't read the thread. Your other points were ok though. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Ok thanks for more facts, maybe we can argue again some time. Have a great life.</div> Lol ok whatever, just lay off.
I wonder how anyone can say that Wilt's 100 pt game was more impressive then Kobe's 81.Has anyone even seen Wilt's game?No.So i dont know how it was more impressive.Wilt was making hooks and dunks against 6.9 guys while Kobe had to score from near 3PT and he did that with even higher % in that game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">Guy, you made a deceiving point (I said "facts", in plural, if you consider the number of names you erroneously put in Wilt's "best seasons" era). You tried to sneak it in, but it didn't work, too bad. Your other points were ok though.</div> I wasn't sneaking it in anywhere since its irrelevant to the debate. Someone mentioned that Wilt had 1 other decent center during his era so I was responding to that. I don't know why you're quoting "best seasons" since I never said that when listing those other centers. Ironic since you've been preaching for everyone who disagres with you to check their facts. I've presented my argument and then some, I'm done with this thread now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">I wasn't sneaking it in anywhere since its irrelevant to the debate. Someone mentioned that Wilt had 1 other decent center during his era so I was responding to that. I don't know why you're quoting "best seasons" since I never said that when listing those other centers. Ironic since you've been preaching for everyone who disagres with you to check their facts. I've presented my argument and then some, I'm done with this thread now.</div> God what a waste of time. Read this previous quote and tell me what it implies: <div class="quote_poster">Quoting RunBJM:</div><div class="quote_post"> Only one other dominant big when Wilt played? Ever heard of Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes, Bob Lanier? Any of those players would be a top 2 center in the league today (behind Shaq), as a whole the competition then was alot better than it is today. </div> I think it is very dubious not to mention when these players were playing with Wilt. Wilt's best seasons did not include ANY of these players, I thought it would be important to put that in. How is it not revelant, you use comments like these to justify Wilt's PPG legitimacy and thus help eliminate the aura that his era was inferior. You have presented your argument (but not on this page, lol), I only have issues with certain aspects and your frailty. Does it even matter if I'm rude btw? Christ as if it was that bad. When did I claim you said "best seasons"? I wasn't quoting "best seasons" from you that is used in another manner. That is an allusion to what one would call an air quote/me quoting other people (rofl); there goes your witty remark about me. Lol man, you're the preachy one, give me a break.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't care if Kobe's game is more impressive or not. "Just don't hate", is my main message to this thread. And I won't give you that point anyway. It was 81, not 60. </div> I said without all his trips to the line he would of only had around 60 points which doesnt even compare to Wilt's 100. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Then why hasn't it been done? I think you're the one that hasn't been watching much basketball. You should try to stick to the facts more closely. </div> That's why I said IF they drove every posession. But Wade and Lebron have the choice to take the jumpshot, if they were to drive every time they got the ball its possible to get 80 points. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Well here's the thing, he DOESN'T have the skill to get to the line EVERY possession. What are you talking about? "Facts"? You're crazy. Do you realize how many times they would have to get to the line to average 40 ppg? You think anyone can get to the line as much as they want. Well no they can't. Why the hell does a jumpshot exist then? It is not possible to get to the line as much as you claim. </div> Again, do you not watch basketball? How can you say Iverson doesnt have the skill to get to the line every possession? The guy is a warrior, hes fearless and is one of the fastest if not the fastest player in the league. He can zoom passed his defender and jump right into a defender get a foul. Yes I do realize how many times you would have to get to the line to avg. 40ppg. Do the math; 2 FT's every foul, 40 points, if you are a decent FT shooter you should be able to get 40 ppg with about 22-25 trips to the line. Sure theres a jumpshot but thats a choice players can make, if they want to take it or drive. Kobe takes jumpers alot when he can just drive like Wade or Lebron to get the easy points. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Or another POV to this argument: If they could get to the line that many more times (yeah right), so can Kobe, and many other stars. Please guy, just stop talking about free throws like that. </div> I never said Kobe couldnt get to the line. That was my main point is to show how easy it is for gaurds LIKE Kobe to get to the FT line then it is for a center to score 100 points off post moves, hook shots and getting banged up with the old rules. You saying Kobe's 81 is a greater accomplishment than Wilt's is just crazy. Even if Kobe got 100, Wilt's was far much greater. That's like comparing Iverson getting 80 points to Shaq getting 80 points. Which is greater? Although Shaq is dominant, (just like Wilt was) it is so much harder for a center to score that many points than if a quick gaurd did. Centers have to deal with double teams down in the post, have to rely on their strength and post moves to get points and sometimes even get hacked hard. Also, theres no need to need to insult people who are debating against you. Just because we don't have the same POV as you it doesnt mean we're stupid or we have to change to your POV. Sorry if I "disrespected" Kobe, I'm not trying to hate on him, all I'm trying to get at is Wilt's accomplishment was greater than Kobe's. I don't know if you will ever understand with all your love for Kobe.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting azn_iverson:</div><div class="quote_post">I said without all his trips to the line he would of only had around 60 points which doesnt even compare to Wilt's 100. That's why I said IF they drove every posession. But Wade and Lebron have the choice to take the jumpshot, if they were to drive every time they got the ball its possible to get 80 points. Again, do you not watch basketball? How can you say Iverson doesnt have the skill to get to the line every possession? The guy is a warrior, hes fearless and is one of the fastest if not the fastest player in the league. He can zoom passed his defender and jump right into a defender get a foul. Yes I do realize how many times you would have to get to the line to avg. 40ppg. Do the math; 2 FT's every foul, 40 points, if you are a decent FT shooter you should be able to get 40 ppg with about 22-25 trips to the line <font color=""Red"">(what? and how many people have averaged this for a season?) </font>. Sure theres a jumpshot but thats a choice players can make, if they want to take it or drive. Kobe takes jumpers alot when he can just drive like Wade or Lebron to get the easy points. I never said Kobe couldnt get to the line. That was my main point is to show how easy it is for gaurds LIKE Kobe to get to the FT line then it is for a center to score 100 points off post moves, hook shots and getting banged up with the old rules. You saying Kobe's 81 is a greater accomplishment than Wilt's is just crazy. Even if Kobe got 100, Wilt's was far much greater. That's like comparing Iverson getting 80 points to Shaq getting 80 points. Which is greater? Although Shaq is dominant, (just like Wilt was) it is so much harder for a center to score that many points than if a quick gaurd did. Centers have to deal with double teams down in the post, have to rely on their strength and post moves to get points and sometimes even get hacked hard. Also, theres no need to need to insult people who are debating against you. Just because we don't have the same POV as you it doesnt mean we're stupid or we have to change to your POV. Sorry if I "disrespected" Kobe, I'm not trying to hate on him, all I'm trying to get at is Wilt's accomplishment was greater than Kobe's. I don't know if you will ever understand with all your love for Kobe.</div> So excuse me for a moment, you justify your claim of unlimited free throws with your own opinion and intangibles? Um no, I don't think there are many people in this world that would agree with you. A lot of people in the NBA must be really freaking stupid for your theory to be true. Also, I don't know or care if Kobe's 81 is more important, do you not read my posts or just skip ahead sometimes? Get that straight already. Your last two paragraphs don't apply to me because of what I have previously said. I'm not insulting anyone (nor does it matter that much if I am, god), you people need to read more carefully.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">So excuse me for a moment, you justify your claim of unlimited free throws with your own opinion and intangibles? Um no, I don't think there are many people in this world that would agree with you. A lot of people in the NBA must be really freaking stupid for your theory to be true. Also, I don't know or care if Kobe's 81 is more important, do you not read my posts or just skip ahead sometimes? Get that straight already. Your last two paragraphs don't apply to me because of what I have previously said. I'm not insulting anyone (nor does it matter that much if I am, god), you people need to read more carefully.</div> First of all, when did I say unlimited free throws? You didn't even explain the part where you said, "A lot of people in the NBA must be really freaking stupid for your theory to be true." It doesn't matter if you insult anyone? Have you read JBB Guidelines, this isn't a place where you can ***** at people just because they don't agree with you.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting azn_iverson:</div><div class="quote_post">First of all, when did I say unlimited free throws? You didn't even explain the part where you said, "A lot of people in the NBA must be really freaking stupid for your theory to be true." <font color=""Red"">(Yes this is true, if people can go to the line 20+ times a game and raise their PER that much, but don't, then they must be stupid)</font> It doesn't matter if you insult anyone? Have you read JBB Guidelines, this isn't a place where you can ***** at people just because they don't agree with you.</div> Oh really? You're basically implying unlimited free throws. 22-25 pg for a season is a joke. Let me clear up something for you: I have not heard anyone try to feed me that free throw garbage to such an extent. Don't get all bitter because your posts are full of extremes. Don't try to threaten me with the JBB Guidelines either.
Yea, just like RunBJM told me, arguing with you is useless. Your stubborn, don't back up your points, and your rude. You think your all that when it comes to basketball knowledge, Im just gonna stop posting.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting azn_iverson:</div><div class="quote_post">Yea, just like RunBJM told me, arguing with you is useless. Your stubborn, don't back up your points, and your rude. You think your all that when it comes to basketball knowledge, Im just gonna stop posting.</div> You're not even debating as good as RunBJM. Arguing with you is useless, your theories are a joke (22-25 FT per game), you think you can change the subject by talking about guidelines and rudeness, and you're the one that doesn't know jack about basketball (40-50 ppg? lmao). I don't see anyone here stepping in to back up your points about a million free throws a game. Tell me any points I have not backed up, lol, look who's talking. Oh please, that is just lazy dissing on your part. Lol, run away too, I'll miss you though. Peace stranger. XOXO
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting vince_carter15:</div><div class="quote_post">you dont need to be rude to prove your point</div> Thank you. I'll remember that forever.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting vince_carter15:</div><div class="quote_post">your welcome</div> Best post in the thread.
well I saw the Kobe's 81 pt night against the Raptors and it was quite a feat. Although the Raptor's defensive scheme against Kobe was terrible, and Kobe got some quick fouls on Mo Pete, when Matt Bonner and Jose Calderon had to defend Kobe that's when things just got sad. I can't compare the two, because I've never seen Wilt's 100 pt game, and the circumstances around it, or even what the era was like in terms of basketball. But I think I was personally more impressed when I heard about Kobe's 62 pt game against the Mavs by the 3rd Q. The Raptor game, I was more shocked about how horrible the Raptor's defense against SGs is, and how badly we need a 6'5 SG who can play D. (Mo Pete is 6'7, and our back-up SG was Calderon 6'2 rookie pg, Joey Graham 6'7 rookie who didn't have much of a rythym, and Bonner 6'8 SF/PF that day guarded Kobe) As well as our lacking of a shotblocking center. However for Dallas, they have Diop and Dampier as shot-blockers. They can had Adrian Griffin, who is a defensive guy (6'5), Josh Howard who can change things up with his speed and length (6'7), Jerry Stackhouse (6'6), Marquis Daniels (6'6), and Harris is very quick (6'3). Because I didn't see that game, and I can't truly compare it to the 81 pt game against the Raptors. However I would be leaning towards it being more impressive.
Not only did Kobe score 81 points but he scored in a variety of ways from all over the court. He shot over 50% from both 2 and from 3. He also shot 18/20 free throws.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">Only one other dominant big when Wilt played? Ever heard of Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes, Bob Lanier? Any of those players would be a top 2 center in the league today (behind Shaq), as a whole the competition then was alot better than it is today.</div>First and foremost, Abdul Jabar's first season was the '69-'70 season. Wilt played 12 games that year and never truly dominated afterwards, with his highest PPG being 20.7 ppg over his last three seasons, as he saw his PPG drop each season, all the way down to 13.2 in his last season. Bob Lanier, like Kareem, came in at the end of Wilt's career as well, as he came during the '70-'71 season. Nate Thurmond, while very good, wasn't dominant. He averaged only 15ppg for his career and shot only 42% from the floor, a FG% you'd expect from a shooting guard, not a big man. Unseld, like Kareem and Lanier, came during the end of Wilt's career as well, as he came during the '69-'70 season. Hayes, like pretty much everyone else I've mentioned, came during the end of his career as well, but a year earlier in the '68-'69 season. The only person that you mentioned that was there for a large portion of Wilt's career, and he was quite good. But everyone else came during the latter part of Wilt's career when he wasn't nearly as dominant as he used to be. So, that's a pretty bad argument on your part....shoulda done a little research. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Did you watch the finals this year? Prime example of how guards can't be stopped, same with LeBron vs. the Pistons and LeBron and Gilbert basically playing 1 on 1 in their series in the playoffs. I guess you're used to it by now from watching Kobe all season but I think any other fan will agree that there's no challenge for athletic guards who can get in the lane and make FTs.</div>I did watch the Finals, but I'm not sure if you realize this, but the reason why guys get to the lane so easily is because of their athleticism. Just look at years past before the hand check fouls came in. Kobe was doing it regularly. MJ did it his entire career. TMac was doing it all the time as well. Chauncey Billups, Allen Iverson, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobli, all of them doing it on a regular basis. So, it's not completely due in part to the rule change, it's simply because these guys are good. There too athletic and too quick for a lot of perimeter defenders to defend. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That was my point, Stern is making a bunch of rule changes so that the game is higher scoring because the scorers can't do it themselves. The Showtime Lakers and Michael Jordan and all those high scoring teams could score even with handchecking and without all these new lameass fouls that Stern has instituted. Scorers today can't keep up with the defenders thats why they've basically taken any and all advantages that defnders once had away so that the NBA will be high scoring again. To sum it up, the NBA game is, like you say, lower scoring today, which is why Stern is changing rules and the way games are officiated so that the game will be higher scoring.</div>If scorers can't keep up with defenders, why is it that guards are continually leading the league in scoring? Cause, last I looked, the top 6 scorers in the league this past season were guards or small forwards, and 9 of the top 10. The only big in that was Dirk, and he plays more like a 3 than a 4. If we go back to '04-'05, the year before the hand check thing was implicated, it's more of the same. Three of the top 5 and 8 of the top 10, the only bigs being Dirk and Amare. Go back to '03-'04, more of the same. Leading scorer was a guard, 7 of the top 10 were guards/sfs, the only not in those positions were KG, Dirk, and Duncan. In '02-'03, the top 3 were guards and 4 of the top 5. I'm sure by now, you've gotten what I'm saying. For quite some time now, guards have dominated the league in scoring. It's not just this season. It's been going on for quite some time now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting azn_iverson:</div><div class="quote_post">Thats not really a crazy claim. Maybe I was wrong to say its easy to get 80 points if you kept driving, but it is true. Wade and Lebron have such explosive first steps that most defenders can't keep up with. If they were to drive every posession I think its quite possible to get 80 points at least once or twice a season. When you drive you don't even have to get it in, like Run said you can just drive straight into an interior defender, get the foul and thrive at the line. All you really need to be a successful scorer driving, is quick feet, the ability to handle the ball, and the ability to drive strong which both Wade and Lebron can do. Thats why AI is so successful; he drives alot and if he didnt take stupid shots and drove with all the touches he gets, he could possible average about 40-50 PPG. Sure Kobe took jumpshots but he had alot of points at the line. Without the points at the line, how many points would he have, only around 60. Run BJM wasnt disrespecting Kobe's accomplishment; we all agree that it was an amazing preformance, hes just trying to get at the point that Wilts 100 > Kobe's 81.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">60 is a lot less than 100, with 60 you can't even compare that to 100. Not sure if you watch much basketball if you don't see that its possible to score 80 points by driving. Do you not watch Wade or Lebron? The majority of their points are earned by driving or at the line. Do you not see that its almost effortless for them to get into the lane? You can't deny the fact that gaurds get into the lane just by blasting passed their defender. Comical? If you don't understand my point then that's comical. You can't deny facts man, AI right now is getting around 30 ppg by driving and shooting, if AI drove and got to the FT line EVERY posession instead of forcing up shots you dont think he would get 40-50 ppg?! </div>These are some odd statements right here. First and foremost, it's not possible to get to the line every time you touch the ball and drive to the lane. Eventually, a call isn't going to go your way or the ref isn't going to call a foul. You're essentially saying that the ref will bail him out every time, which is not true. Next, Wade and LeBron score a lot of the points in the lane, but they also realize they have to take jumpers occasionally. If you're going to be driving to the lane every time, you're going to get double teamed or they're going to drop to a zone, they're going to find a way to stop you. If you didn't notice, but a lot of Wade's points come off of jumpers. Partly because defenses make their gameplans to stop him and partly cause he realizes he needs it. You can't keep going to the lane every time, as I stated earlier. Aside from those reasons, you take a lot of abuse going to the lane, and that takes a huge toll on your body. And also, while they may make it look effortless, it's not. It's a lot harder than what it looks. And also, seeing as how your name says Iverson, I'm going to assume you're an Iverson fan, therefore your AI point is out of bias. Face it. While he may be quick, quick doesn't always equate to an easy route to the hoop. The fact that he's so small and undersized kills him. If he's driving to the hoop time and time again, he's going to get hurt. His body has taken an abuse because he drove in a lot when he was younger. Now that he's gotten older, he realizes his body can't sustain that for an 82 game season, hence the reason why he shoots more jumpers. It's smart basketball from a career standpoint on his part. And the successful scorer part is false. There's plenty of quick people in the league. You need a lot more than quicks to score in this league. If you're one dimensional with no jumper, you don't get to the NBA. You have to be able to score in a variety of ways in todays NBA, which is why you see the likes of Kobe and LeBron and Wade on top of the league in scoring. They score every way possible. Jumpers, treys, midrange, layups, dunks, free throws. Everything. You can't be one dimensional if you're going to be a scorer. Another thing, guards get in the lane in a variety of ways. Outside of blasting by the defender, there's this wonderful thing called a screen. Good players know how to take advantage of that. Pump fakes are another good way to get an opening to the lane, and you surely don't have to be quick to utilize that. Backdoor cuts off of a screen are a nice way as well. Double teams on a teammate also help, especially if you're the one they leave, cause then there is a possibilty no one is defending you, leaving you with a bit of a lane as well. So, as you can see, plenty of ways to get to the lane. Why do you think slower people like Antoine Walker get to the hoop with ease.
