Jason Kidd is still the best PG in the NBA today

For everyone who thinks Nash is better than Kidd, to everyone who thinks Arenas is better than Kidd, to everyone who thinks Chris Paul, Allen Iverson, or Baron Davis is better than Kidd, wake up and smell the coffee. Jason Kidd is still the best point guard in the NBA today.

Steve Nash is not better than Jason Kidd because he had a much deeper team to work with. Gilbert Arenas and Allen Iverson are more of scorers/shooting guards. Chris Paul is new to the NBA right now and is not on the same level as Kidd. Baron Davis is a great player but he is injury prone.

I just wanted to make it clear that Jason Kidd is still the best point guard in the NBA. With Nash winning the MVP people are starting to forget about J-Kidd. If Jason Kidd played for the Suns they would be the NBA champions right now. Jsaon Kidd is still the best PG in the NBA today.

 

^^^^
Im not gonna lie Ason Kidd (has no J) should of won an(maybe 2) MVP awards in his career award if Nash won two

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting vcwannabe15:</div><div class="quote_post">For everyone who thinks Nash is better than Kidd, to everyone who thinks Arenas is better than Kidd, to everyone who thinks Chris Paul, Allen Iverson, or Baron Davis is better than Kidd, wake up and smell the coffee. Jason Kidd is still the best point guard in the NBA today.

Steve Nash is not better than Jason Kidd because he had a much deeper team to work with. Gilbert Arenas and Allen Iverson are more of scorers/shooting guards. Chris Paul is new to the NBA right now and is not on the same level as Kidd. Baron Davis is a great player but he is injury prone.

I just wanted to make it clear that Jason Kidd is still the best point guard in the NBA. With Nash winning the MVP people are starting to forget about J-Kidd. If Jason Kidd played for the Suns they would be the NBA champions right now. Jsaon Kidd is still the best PG in the NBA today.</div>

I agree that Kidd is the best PG, but how would Kidd make the Suns NBA champions? He is a better rebounder and defender than Nash, but he's not that good that he would make the Suns champions. Nash wasn't the problem, injuries were.

 

J-Kidd is a lot better in a princeton offense like Nash is in the D'Antoni offense. Until Lawrence Frank changes up the offense the Nets won't get over the hump and J-Kidd will still look like top 3 PG instead of the best.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Gee_Dupe11:</div><div class="quote_post">^^^^
Im not gonna lie Ason Kidd (has no J) should of won an(maybe 2) MVP awards in his career award if Nash won two</div>

Seriously that Ason thing is getting annoying. It sounded clever at first but now you are overdoing it.

 

^^^ well im calling him that now

Kidd IMO is still close Match up better him and Steve Nash

i think its a Tie between them

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Gee_Dupe11:</div><div class="quote_post">^^^^
Im not gonna lie Ason Kidd (has no J) should of won an(maybe 2) MVP awards in his career award if Nash won two</div>

Ason Kidd?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Heat4Life:</div><div class="quote_post">J-Kidd is a lot better in a princeton offense like Nash is in the D'Antoni offense. Until Lawrence Frank changes up the offense the Nets won't get over the hump and J-Kidd will still look like top 3 PG instead of the best.</div>

The offense doesn't run through Kidd but it does run through Nash. That might be a big reason why Kidd doesn't seem as valuable as Nash. Kidd still manages to average 8.4 assists even when the offense doesn't run through him. Don't take me wrong, I love Nash but people around me claim that Kidd is the shadow of his former self. That is just ridiculous.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NbaBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">The offense doesn't run through Kidd but it does run through Nash. That might be a big reason why Kidd doesn't seem as valuable as Nash. Kidd still manages to average 8.4 assists even when the offense doesn't run through him. Don't take me wrong, I love Nash but people around me claim that Kidd is the shadow of his former self. That is just ridiculous.</div>A lot of people don't realize that Eddie Jordan and Byron Scott were a big part of the offensive scheme. Lawrence Frank is the defensive guru and he's done a good job in that area but if he can install an offense for Kidd like the Suns did for Nash, they would be a lot better. I think right now his talent is going to waste with the current offense.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Heat4Life:</div><div class="quote_post">A lot of people don't realize that Eddie Jordan and Byron Scott were a big part of the offensive scheme. Lawrence Frank is the defensive guru and he's done a good job in that area but if he can install an offense for Kidd like the Suns did for Nash, they would be a lot better. I think right now his talent is going to waste with the current offense.</div>

You think Kidd is better or Nash?

 

lol

Well Nash and Kidd are both playmakers but IMO Baron Davis is the best TALENTED Point Guard Big,Quick,Playmaker,can Shoot it,can play it only weakness is his Injury Bug

But Nash and Kidd are the Best True Point Guards but have diff Tendencies......

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting vcwannabe15:</div><div class="quote_post">You think Kidd is better or Nash?</div>Kidd in the right system and a bit more scoring like 16ppg. He also has to step up as a go-to option in the 4th. That's one area where I would prefer Nash.

What I really like about Kidd is his ability to rebound because once you grab a defensive rebound you want to get it to your PG quick. He cuts the middle man off by just getting it himself.

Nash is a good PG too but he looks a lot better in the Suns than he would in any other team.

 

Jason Kidd, despite what people will say, is still the best point guard in the league...period. We wouldn't even be comparing the two if Steve Nash stayed in Dallas. The only reason he gets the stats he does is becuase of the system he's in. That system is meant to inflate peoples offensive stats by running as much as possible and exerting as little emphasis on defense as possible as well, therefore giving them more energy to run on offense.

The one thing I dislike about people calling Nash the best in the league though, is because of the fact that he's only had two great seasons. Otherwise, prior to this year, he'd never averaged over 8.2 apg (I believe), and he'd only done that once. Other than that, he'd never averaged even close to what he's averaging in Phx.

However, if you look at JKidd, he's never in his career averaged under 7.7 apg (I believe)....ever. And the thing about Kidd is the fact that he's never had superb talent around him, yet he still wins. Just take a look at the Nets. Prior to Vince Carter, that team didn't really have a "go-to" option at all. He took that team to the Finals with the likes of Richard Jefferson (a rook the first time), Kenyon Martin (we've seen how good he is without a great PG), and people like Jason Collins. He's done it with relatively lackluster talent, that is, prior to getting Carter and prior to RJ becoming a 19ppg scorer.

Now, take a look at Nash's players, and there's no wonder why he's put up the numbers he has over the last two seasons. Two season ago, he had a pair of superstars in Amare and Marion. He had an emerging star in Joe Johnson. He had QRich, who, despite being a chucker, excelled in the system because of the amount of open looks he got, not because of Nash, but because of the system and also because of the prescence of Stoudemire. This year...he still had Marion, but he lost Q, JJ, and Amare. However, he replaced them by serviceable players once again. This time it was Raja Bell, a defense and 3 point specialist that averaged a career high because of the open looks he got in the system. He had another three point specialist in James Jones, who had a career year as well. He also had Boris Diaw, who was a triple double threat before coming to Phoenix, it's just he was never given the chance. Leandro Barbosa also came into his own, becoming one of the most electrifying 6th men in the league. I could go on, but you get the picture. Nash has had, not only a system that inflates stats, but also the players to help him. He's had great talent all around the place.

The other thing, is he's been the star. He's been the focal point of the offense. That's a big thing as well. When he wasn't the focal point in Dallas, he didn't produce nearly what he produced as a Sun.

All in all, at the end of the day, to me, it's no question who the better point guard is. Jason Kidd has excelled everywhere he goes, taking every team to the playoffs for the most part. In New Jersey, with a team that wasn't all that talented or deep, he took them to the Finals in back to back years, almost winning it against the Spurs. Nash, on the other hand, has fizzled out every year. He's never managed to take his team over the hump and into the Finals.

Beyond that, prior to two seasons ago, he was never even recognized the way he is now, his name was never in MVP talks, and he'd never averaged more than 8apg. The only thing that hasn't changed with Nash is that he still can't take a team to the Finals...whereas Kidd has done it twice.

 

Whats with this sudden influx of Jason Kidd love?

I'm not denying Kidd isnt the best point guard in the league today, but I think you guys are undervaluing his supporting cast, he's playing along side some great talent himself in Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson and Nenad Kristic.

 

Kidd is the best point guard. Kidd's mind set is to get the ball to his teammates, which is what defines a point guard. Kidd controls both the offense and the defensive end as well. Kidd will exhaust all possible options before he takes a shot. Nash for example is more 2G than PG. Like what has been said, the system he's in allows him to be the primary option. He shoots more, which turns to a lot of his assists when the double team comes. Kidd runs the offense and can find his teammates without shooting as much. Kidd attracts as much double teams as Nash does, but not primarily because of his offense but because of his vision on the court and being able to create situations. That's a true point guard. He makes do with what has been dealt. Kidd is a winner. He brougth the Nets to 2 straight finals appearance with a line up of Jefferson, Martin & Vanhorn. Kidd made them look good. Martin has gone from All-Star status to a headache. Chokes in the 4th, takes to many jumpers, can't make a basket inside. And Vanhorn? I don't think we need to go there. Back then Jefferson got most of his points on fastbreak passes from Kidd. With respect to Nash, he has brought life to Phoenix and he has made a name for himself. But with regards to who's the best point guard, it is Jason Kidd.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NTC187:</div><div class="quote_post">Whats with this sudden influx of Jason Kidd love?

I'm not denying Kidd isnt the best point guard in the league today, but I think you guys are undervaluing his supporting cast, he's playing along side some great talent himself in Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson and Nenad Kristic.</div>

And so does Nash, 2 time MVP...Shawn Marion, Amare Stoudamire, Raja Bell ain't bad either, Boris Diaw(who's on his way up), Barbosa aint a bad player himself

 

There's no denying that he's a great player but it is a fact that he plays in a system that is custom taylored to exploit his talent.

 

Well why are you holding that against him? Isnt that the aim of basketball? To get the best possible performance out of your players?

 

Kidd is getting older though. So is Nash, but I think Nash's shooting ability will allow him to be better for longer. Kidd can't sustain All-NBA first team defense into his older years, while Nash can sustain his shooting ability as long as he plays. Neither guy relies on athleticism to play, so they'll still be able to do most of what they can do.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The people saying Nash is overrated because of the system hes in and the style they play are totally wrong though. Steve Nash is that system, hes responsible for guys like Quentin Richardson, Tim Thomas, Joe Johnson, Raja Bell, etc. breaking out and in some cases going elsewhere and not living up to expectations and/or their contract. His team had the 3rd best record in the western conference and he lead his team to the Western Conference Finals without his team's best player, that doesnt just happen because they play a running style offense. Nash is a great PG, don't try to take away what he's done these last few seasons because hes outplayed your favorite PG.</div>
Tim Thomas broke out a long time ago. Similarly, Q-Rich broke out in 03-04 in LAC, the year before he came to Phoenix. Even Joe Johnson broke out in 03-04, it was his first time getting a big role, and after Marbury left that year he was puttng up 19-5-5.

Look at Raja Bell's numbers in Utah. He was always a good defender and since about 02-03 starting developing a shot. In 04-05 he shot 40%+ from downtown in Utah who had Keith Mcleod at PG and had their main guys injured. If you look at his PER 40 numbers in 03-04, 04-05 and 05-06

<u>Raja Bell</u>
<font color=""Navy"">03-04:</font> 18.1 PPG | 4.8 RPG | 2.1 APG | 2.2 TPG | 4.9 FTA/G | .500 TS%
<font color=""navy"">04-05:</font> 17.3 PPG | 4.5 RPG | 2.0 APG | 1.8 TPG | 3.4 FTA/G | .527 TS%
<font color=""navy"">05-06:</font> 15.7 PPG | 3.4 RPG | 2.8 APG | 1.2 TPG | 2.0 FTA/G | .584 TS%

Now of course we can see his efficiency improved. He did less ball handling as a scorer (less TPG, less FTA/G), averaged more assists (passing to far superior offensive teammates), but his scoring didn't actually go up outside of the fact that on Phoenix he was playing 10 more MPG. The improvements are obviously due to him playing with much better teammates in a much better offensive system with a much better PG (far superior PG to be exact), but the idea that he wasn't actually a good player before is false. Utah in 03-04 was in the bottom 3 in the league in PPG, in 04-05 they were in the bottom 5 (tied 5th worst with Indy), both years they did not surpass 93 PPG. Actually in 03-04 they were under 90 PPG (88.7 PPG). If you put Nash in a similar scenario, his APG would go down to the 7-8 APG range, and his percentages also drop. Not because he becomes a worse player, but because the team is taking less shots, and is not as skilled offensively, so their's less oppurtunity for assists, and the oppurtunities don't go in as often. Same thing would happen to Barbosa etc etc.

I think people <u>overhype</u> Nash's impact on the team as if he's the only one putting work out there. This is not to say he doesn't have impact, but it's not as big as it's made out to be. People always neglect the fact that in addition to other players Nash <u>ALSO</u> had his numbers improve quite drastically, and he did not become a better player than he was in Dallas. So take that into account, the Phoenix system improved everyone's game, everyone compliments each other (which is the whole point). Having shooters and finishers all around allows Nash free passage into the lane because teams are so worried about giving up three's or free baskets, so he get's to go one on one against his man a lot without as much help. If you have Deshawn Stevenson at SG and Rubeun Patterson at SF, it's going to be a lot tougher to get in that lane. Similalry his coutvision, and ability to keep his dribble alive and find guys makes their movement and cuts not be in vain, and again their ability to make those cuts and get open (mostly Marion in this) and then finish makes his work to get them shots not be in vain. So everyone is working together as opposed to how too many people make it seem like it's just Nash going out there and controlling everything while players who couldn't play before can now do mighty things.

I do think Nash is the best PG in the league now (as in next season) though. For last season I'd say they were about equal. Kidd obviously didn't have the same luxury of players around him, he had two very good players in RJ and Vince and a nice one in Krstic, but as a whole it was quite harder for him to put out the same assist output. Nash's shooting ability allows his game to carry out better into his older years while Kidd's lack of true shooting ability hurts his offensive game. Nash can continue to be a scorer because he can shoot while Kidd has to work harder for his, and he's not as quick as he was before, neither does he have shooters all around him, so penetration becomes harder. Nash also becomes more effective on the high pick and roll in halfcourt sets because of his shooting, while Kidd would need more of the penetration pick and roll, but then again, older years, not as quick, so it becomes harder.

Also if we're trying to limit this to pure PG's and not players that play the PG position there's only Nash. But if we're not, Arenas would be #2 of my PG list, with Iverson following, and I wouldn't be surprised if Paul is able to surpass Kidd next season. He's the up and comer.