<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">You say this like it's a fact, that's not a fact at all, please don't be dumb. Saying this is just as dumb as the people that act like Nash has been MVP his whole career, actually it's even dumber.</div> I lol'd...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Gee_Dupe11:</div><div class="quote_post">The Thread Title says it all you dont see "Nash is still the Best Point Guard in the League" Kidd is Behind Nash (not a fan other either of them)</div> Neither am I, and that just pisses me off because I'm canadian and people see my opinion in a different way.... It's just a fact, Nash is the better PG, but as I said before...We all have our opinions.... Sorry for the double post.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hustler:</div><div class="quote_post">Neither am I, and that just pisses me off because I'm canadian and people see my opinion in a different way.... It's just a fact, Nash is the better PG, but as I said before...We all have our opinions.... Sorry for the double post.</div> I feel like Kidd has been a better point guard mainly due to consistency. We always knew Kidd was an elite point guard while Nash was always good, but didn?t really break out until we returned to Phoenix. To steal a quote from Kenny Smith Nash is sort of like Jamie Foxx we always knew he was a good actor, but then he came out with Ray and blew us all away reaching a whole other level. In short Kidd has had the better career Nash has been better these past two years imho.
If you could pick either of the 2 to build a team around, who would you pick? Assuming whichever you picked you installed the optimum system for them and optimum pieces around them. Then who wouldn't pick Jason Kidd? That's just my 2 cents on why Kidd is still current measuring stick of PG's today. BTW earlier someone said QRich sucked last season without Nash. I think this was more because of off the court issues. He broke off his engagement with fiance Brandy and his brother died. In addition he was in the Knicks....
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AMS_ice:</div><div class="quote_post">So is this a fact? or is it also DUMB?</div> Hmm, should I let you figure this out yourself, or do you need guidance? Hmm let me see, Kidd and Nash are getting older, yes, fact. Nash's shooting ability will allow him to be better for longer, yes, fact, look at Stockton and Payton and compare. Kidd won't be as effective offensively if he can't fall back on his shooting ability, that's what older players do, it's been proven. Kidd can't sustain All-NBA first team defense into his older years, again, look at Payton, and he was an even better defender than Kidd, again, it's been proven. Again for shooting, look at Stockton, his last years in Utah he was still shooting close to 50% FG, and every year but 01-02 a good 3PT%, again, proven. Neither guy relies on athleticsm, so they'll still be able to do most of what they can do, don't think anyone should have an argument there, fact. Me <u>think</u>ing Nash is the best PG in the league for next season again, I didn't pose it as a fact, I said <u>I THINK</u>. Kidd and Nash were equal this previous season (even though Nash probably has an edge I'm giving Kidd the benefit of the doubt), not sure what's to argue there either. Everything else again is proven, Nash is more effective on the high pick and roll, obvious to anyone that watches them play. Kidd doesn't have as many shooters, don't know what there is to argue there, also a fact. It was harder for Kidd to put out the same assist output even though he had some nice players around him, again, nothing to argue there, another fact. Kidd's lack of true shooting ability hurts his offensive game, well it's been happening his whole career, so easily a fact. Again, nothing to argue there. A possibility of Chris Paul surpassing Kidd next season if age causes him to decline a little, again, <u>a possiblity</u>, can't argue against a possiblity, I didn't pose it as a fact. I didn't say Chris Paul <u>will</u> surpass Kidd. Did you actually have a point to your post, or what?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Franchise4Ever:</div><div class="quote_post">Nuff said. People are taking Nash's last two years as though he was ALWAYS MVP like. I take Kidd by far.</div> Who's had the better career, I don't know. You might be right. But Nash is CLEARLY the BEST PG IN THE GAME TODAY. JKidd doesn't impact the game like he used too, plus his jumpshot is still wishwashy. Nash wins this thread. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting NbaBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">So Nash was better than Kidd when he was on Dallas too?</div> Read the topic of the discussion, then you'll understand what I'm sayin. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AMS_ice:</div><div class="quote_post">If Kidd and Nash would trade places, the Suns would have beeen in the finals.</div> That's ridiculous lol....Nash's ability to hit 3's and score carried the Suns thru much of the playoffs. Those happen to be areas where Kidd is at his weakest, SHOOTING THE BALL. If ur the teams leader, and PG, ur ability to shoot the ball will make of break ur team at some point. That's the difference between the two right now, you can depend on Nash to knockdown shot in big games. Kidd's jumper has always been suspect.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Who's had the better career, I don't know</div> Here is Kidd's and Nash's profiles http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_kidd/index.html http://www.nba.com/playerfile/steve_nash/index.html Compare year to year stats and you should have your answer. Add that to what Kidd does that doesn't show in the stats. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Read the topic of the discussion, then you'll understand what I'm sayin.</div> I was simply asking you was Nash was better than Kidd when he was on Dallas.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NbaBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">I was simply asking you was Nash was better than Kidd when he was on Dallas.</div> Dallas? I might have to go with Kidd, but Nash wasn't far behind.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Dallas? I might have to go with Kidd, but Nash wasn't far behind.</div> Actually Nash wasn't close to Kidd at that time. Nash didn't perform the kind of magic that Kidd did for his teammates. People say that Nash is better at this time, but they also say that Kidd is not far behind. When Kidd was better without arguement, nobody would say Nash wasn't far behind, because Nash in fact was pretty far behind. Nash has had these 2 great seasons and I can't argue with that. Other than these 2 seasons, Nash was simply "just another PG".
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NbaBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually Nash wasn't close to Kidd at that time. Nash didn't perform the kind of magic that Kidd did for his teammates. People say that Nash is better at this time, but they also say that Kidd is not far behind. When Kidd was better without arguement, nobody would say Nash wasn't far behind, because Nash in fact was pretty far behind. Nash has had these 2 great seasons and I can't argue with that. Other than these 2 seasons, Nash was simply "just another PG".</div> What seperated them before was Kidd's speed, quickness, defense and rebounding. His shooting was always suspect. But I think Nash's IQ, shot, and ability to create has surpassed Kidd. The fact you can't depend on Kidd to hit a open shot makes Nash the obvious candidate.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">What seperated them before was Kidd's speed, quickness, defense and rebounding. His shooting was always suspect. But I think Nash's IQ, shot, and ability to create has surpassed Kidd. The fact you can't depend on Kidd to hit a open shot makes Nash the obvious candidate.</div> How can you say Nash has a better basketball IQ than Kidd? Because he has gotten older he is dumber? They both can create shots for teammates so I can't say who really is better on that part. Suns depend more on Nash his playmaking skills because the offense runs through him. For the Nets the offense goes through Carter so Kidd abilities aren't fully exploited. Kidd can't hit an open shot. Ok. And Nash can't play defense.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NbaBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">How can you say Nash has a better basketball IQ than Kidd? Because he has gotten older he is dumber? They both can create shots for teammates so I can't say who really is better on that part. Suns depend more on Nash his playmaking skills because the offense runs through him. For the Nets the offense goes through Carter so Kidd abilities aren't fully exploited. Kidd can't hit an open shot. Ok. And Nash can't play defense.</div> The offense doesn't run thru Kidd because he can't carry the offense, let's not sugarcoat this. Nash's offensive game has gotten alot better, to where he can score almost at will. IQ wise, Nash has this easily. The guy is slower, weaker, and not half the athlete Kidd is. But he somehow finds a way to get his shot off. Not saying Kidd's IQ isn't as high, but Nash's is superior. The only flaw is Nash's D, which isn't anything special. But with zones implimented, it's not that much of a factor.
About Kidd compared to Nash in Dallas, it wasn't even close then, but injuries and age have affected Kidd while Nash has gotten older he doesn't have the injuries problem, and his superior shooting ability helps him to be a superior scorer. Also I don't agree with the IQ thing, you don't lose IQ. You can lose ability to complete plays that you see because your body just can't do it anymore, but basketball IQ doesn't go away unless we'd have some dumb coaches floating around. Also Nash and Kidd's weaknesses can be more detrimental depending on the team. For example Nash would be much better on Washington because out team was built around Arenas, and Jamison is the only other good outside shooter outside of him. Arenas is needed to help spread the floor. Kidd would suck more on Washington because the teams defense is based on individual, not team defense, so his defensive abilities won't do as much as Nash's offense would. Now if it's San Antonio, Kidd would probably be better, on the Suns, both guys could work, you could run a wing as opposed to high pick and roll with Kidd so his shooting won't matter as much.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting vcwannabe15:</div><div class="quote_post">For everyone who thinks Nash is better than Kidd, to everyone who thinks Arenas is better than Kidd, to everyone who thinks Chris Paul, Allen Iverson, or Baron Davis is better than Kidd, wake up and smell the coffee. Jason Kidd is still the best point guard in the NBA today. Steve Nash is not better than Jason Kidd because he had a much deeper team to work with. Gilbert Arenas and Allen Iverson are more of scorers/shooting guards. Chris Paul is new to the NBA right now and is not on the same level as Kidd. Baron Davis is a great player but he is injury prone. I just wanted to make it clear that Jason Kidd is still the best point guard in the NBA. With Nash winning the MVP people are starting to forget about J-Kidd. If Jason Kidd played for the Suns they would be the NBA champions right now. Jsaon Kidd is still the best PG in the NBA today.</div> Yep I agree..on the bold part..I agree on the other parts as well. I think that as much as Nash can make others better..Kidd can do it better. Kidd throws the best alleys.. Is the most unselfish and very underrated. Nash is good and makes his teammates better but I think that Kidd can do it better. Kidd has better passes also imo. I think that if Nash got 2 MVP Awards..then Kidd should have 2 also.. I agree with your post. Good job man.. Nice post..
It doesn't matter, I believe CP3 will be better then all the point gaurds everyone of you listed about...And please don't quote me on this....you know it's true.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">The offense doesn't run thru Kidd because he can't carry the offense, let's not sugarcoat this. Nash's offensive game has gotten alot better, to where he can score almost at will. IQ wise, Nash has this easily. The guy is slower, weaker, and not half the athlete Kidd is. But he somehow finds a way to get his shot off. Not saying Kidd's IQ isn't as high, but Nash's is superior. The only flaw is Nash's D, which isn't anything special. But with zones implimented, it's not that much of a factor.</div> Kidd can't carry the offense? So who exactly was carrying it during two straight nba finals apperance. As for Nash, just because he can get a shot off does not give him a higher basketball IQ. That is just stupid to say. Where was Nash's IQ during the 38 point loss. If he can shoot at will, why was he shutdown by Kidd? If Nash's defense flaws don't matter then neither does Kidd's jumpshot. We do have Carter and Jefferson who takes the shots.
I really don't understand why this has gone so far. People are just overrating Nash because they only remember the past two seasons. Even so in the past two seasons Kidd has been doing extrodinary for how old and worn down he has become.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Franchise4Ever:</div><div class="quote_post">I really don't understand why this has gone so far. People are just overrating Nash because they only remember the past two seasons. Even so in the past two seasons Kidd has been doing extrodinary for how old and worn down he has become.</div> The title of the thread does claim that Kidd is still the best PG. I don't think anyone will say that Nash has had the better career so far but in the last few seasons Nash has clearly outplayed Kidd. Like you say, Kidd has been playing great "for how old and worn down he is" and all of the other excuses why Kidd is alledgedly better than Nash even though Nash put up better numbers on a better team in a significantly better division and conference. I'm sad to have to rip all you Kidd fans because I really do like him but IMO Nash has been alot better the last 2 seasons.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Hmm, should I let you figure this out yourself, or do you need guidance? Hmm let me see, Kidd and Nash are getting older, yes, fact. Nash's shooting ability will allow him to be better for longer, yes, fact, look at Stockton and Payton and compare. Kidd won't be as effective offensively if he can't fall back on his shooting ability, that's what older players do, it's been proven. Kidd can't sustain All-NBA first team defense into his older years, again, look at Payton, and he was an even better defender than Kidd, again, it's been proven. Again for shooting, look at Stockton, his last years in Utah he was still shooting close to 50% FG, and every year but 01-02 a good 3PT%, again, proven. Neither guy relies on athleticsm, so they'll still be able to do most of what they can do, don't think anyone should have an argument there, fact. Me <u>think</u>ing Nash is the best PG in the league for next season again, I didn't pose it as a fact, I said <u>I THINK</u>. Kidd and Nash were equal this previous season (even though Nash probably has an edge I'm giving Kidd the benefit of the doubt), not sure what's to argue there either. Everything else again is proven, Nash is more effective on the high pick and roll, obvious to anyone that watches them play. Kidd doesn't have as many shooters, don't know what there is to argue there, also a fact. It was harder for Kidd to put out the same assist output even though he had some nice players around him, again, nothing to argue there, another fact. Kidd's lack of true shooting ability hurts his offensive game, well it's been happening his whole career, so easily a fact. Again, nothing to argue there. A possibility of Chris Paul surpassing Kidd next season if age causes him to decline a little, again, <u>a possiblity</u>, can't argue against a possiblity, I didn't pose it as a fact. I didn't say Chris Paul <u>will</u> surpass Kidd. Did you actually have a point to your post, or what?</div> Wow... You really believe that Nash is better... Tsk tsk tsk... Phoenix has a lot of players who can hit the 3's. Nash gets his assists via kick out passes when he hits a road block inside. And as for Kidd's assists... He avg. close to 9 even without outside shooters around him, even when Carter handles the ball a lot. Unlike Nash, Kidd doesn't need to be a scorer to get his assists. Teams double up on him simply because he is "Jason Kidd", Kidd creates opportunity for his teammates without having to score. Kidd hurts teams more than 1 way. And to say he can't sustain his defense is ridiculous... He avg. 7.3 rpg. last season, matching his career high in his 1st season with the Nets. And this coming off surgery. Nash has 2 great seasons under him... Jason Kidd has 14! Great players make their teammates better no matter who they are. Kidd has done than through out his career. Kidd has been a star since his rookie year and will be in the Hall of Fame. Kidd is the "Best Point Guard" in the NBA today. Now that's a fact!
