I think it has to be JRich. He's the only one who has shown consistency and the ability to play in any tempo whether its run n' gun or Montyball (slow as heck Murphy/Fisher ball). While Jrich is more of a small forward than an actual shooting guard, I think finding him a small forward that can play more like a guard should be easy to find. Dunleavy was supposed to be that type of player, but he's a prospect that failed to improve last year. Dun could easily bounce back if you believe in optimism, but he's proven to be consistently inconsistent like Nazr Mohammed. Dun was the right fit to compliment Jason Richardson when it comes to skill set, but IMO didn't even have the credentials to hang in the NBA if he couldn't create his own shot or create shots for others if he was proven too slow or too weak to play up to his size or his ideal position of small forward. Post-up point guard or face-up power forward seems more like his positions because he can finally outmuscle/shoot over point guards and he could outquick power forwards and rebound decently. The right point guard for Jason Richardson is obviously one that can step up and create in traffic or make the right decisions and defer to players like Jason Richardson. Pure point guards I've felt we had covered with Claxton, NVE, and Baron Davis (guys who can create something out of nothing and run the break). A combo guard leaning more towards shooting guard such as Derek Fisher or Gilbert Arenas hasn't worked well IMO because they take away a lot of ball movement or shot creation for others. It's especially bad since neither Jason Richardson makes for a good secondary ballhandler/playmaker and Dunleavy is really too ineffective to handle this role on offense as of now. We have to understand the whole role of a shooting guard is to be scoring version of a point guard. Jason Richardson still needs to have some point guard ability and he's been working on this, but we don't know if the ceiling is there yet going from high school power forward to guard all of sudden. We also would need to re-design the frontcourt position of power forward and the middle at center because frankly, this is just unacceptable to be competing in the Western Conference with. If we don't have a prototype guard like Ray Allen mixed with Rashard Lewis or Kobe Bryant, we're basically f-ed in terms of competing in 82 games. The Warriors big men now are at least better than the likes of Todd Fuller, Felton Spencer, and all these other stiffs. Guys like Joe Smith, Donyell Marshall and Antwan Jamison were stuck in the worst kind of "tweener" SF/PF and they weren't the Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki or Pau Gasol kind. We were grateful to land a guy like Murphy who finally didn't suck, but we need to re-design it so the power forward and center are primary/secondary back to the basket players and defenders around the basket. Power forward also needs to become a better perimeter defender. Murphy is just average on perimeter D, but absolutely untrustworthy when it comes to defending the paint or at the basket. We also need more passers and good shooters since the ball stops at SG and PF a lot and SG is the only position where we get at least 45% field goal shooting. The ball going to the center also needs to be caught because a 90-100% field goal chance gets wasted when our clumsy center keeps dropping it. We need our projects to turn into prospects. Of course this is easier said than done. It's like asking Jrich + Baron to put up some decent free throw percentages. As a backcourt, together they rate the worst in the league for the type that can score a lot of points. A big portion of all-star points comes from the foul line and these guys will just waste it. Another weakness is that Jrich is probably as easy to shutdown as Shawn Marion when it comes to creating a shot. Baron is the most unstoppable shot creator if it weren't for his horrendous shooting, which pretty much cancels everything out. I feel like we have to treat Jrich as a Shawn Marion type scorer, Baron Davis as a Jason Kidd type scorer only in higher volume scoring (6 for 17 field goal attempts, Allen Iverson like field goal attempt averages). We definitely need another star player or group of players that can be very efficient. We can't have guys like Dunleavy and Murph shooting crap and Foyle dropping sure things. I sure wish Baron Davis was more Claxton when it came to living at the line. I do not think he is a top 10 talent if he can't shoot free throws or shoot accurately. It's just not in the realm of elite guards to do that so poorly. The best leaders of a team pretty much do everything and they go on to win championships. Just look at all the past guards that have won and the big men they've had. We need to have a franchise player, or else we have to go the Pistons or the Suns route. But those two still need big men.
I say the Warriors build around Baron Davis, Jason Richardson, and Ike Diogu as a core trio. (A GSW version of Detroit's Billups/Rip/Rasheed?) Add a center who can be a presence in the paint on defense, block shots, rebound and catch the ball. I think Taft and Andris could do these things. Add a SF who is athletic and crafty. One that can run, succeed in the open court, defend, handle the ball, rebound, distribute, and be a decent shooter and just involve himself in the game and in plays(be a catalyst). This could be like Prince from Detroit or a more athletic and motivated and focused Mike Dunleavy. The bench would need some defense from the perimeter and also athleticism and some help at shooting FG's and FT's. The defense and athleticism is filled by Pietrus, Ellis, Devin Brown, and I don't know too much about McLeod or Owens. I am not certain who helps in the FG's or FT's though. Possibly Ellis and even Pietrus if he can get a little more consistant and works on his shot selection. Hey, I think the Warriors are close to building a team here. It would just be nice to have an upgrade at SF, or at least a better and consistant Dunleavy who is giving effort on the court. And maybe the Warriors sign a player who can help shoot the ball, and add instant scoring, maybe that is Casey Jacobsen, though as I said in another post, it could be tough to find a spot on the active roster for him. Oh and of course for all young teams, a good leader is a necessity.
I agree with that trio. Hopefully Jrich and Baron can learn to shoot 85 or 90% a clip at the free throw line. LOL. We need SF and C badly, but it's got to be within budget and also a fit for that particular trio. If we get a tweener guy like Al Harrington it's got to be a good contract. If we're overpaying for the Joe Johnson type swing man I'd prefer that if we're going 10-11 mil a year vs. a 10-11 mil a year SF/PF type guy.
If Beans keeps developing the way he has (and fixes the FTs of course), he'll be one of the top centers in the league in a couple years. Does/will that make him the one of the core to build around?
The Warriors actually have a very solid young foundation. It still surprises me why they haven't really made much progress in the past couple of years. But if I were Mullin, I would definitely build the team around Jason Richardson and Baron Davis (duh, Mr.J!). But the Warriors do have a top-tier backcourt with Jason Richardson and Baron Davis. Davis is already an all-star and if the Warriors got a couple of more wins by February, I'm sure J-Rich would have already been an all-star, though he doesn't need all-star credentials to prove he is a top shooting guard in the league. If Baron could stay healthy (hasn't done that too much in recent years), that backcourt tandem would be a problem on a nightly basis. Also, he has to work on his shot selection. When I watch Davis go to work, he has the tendency to just jack up quick three's and looking at his stats now, he jacks up six three's a game, which is a problem considering he only connects on 32% of his attempts per game. But when your two star players are in the backcourt, you're probably going to be a perimeter-oriented team. With Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy also being favoring the outside more, the Warriors are pretty much a jump shooting team. They have been making a concerted effort to add depth to their frontcourt by drafting Diogu, Biedrins, Taft, and Patrick O'Bryant. But with the exception of maybe Diogu, are any of them ready to step in immediately and add another dimension to the Warriors offense? This will make them even more perimeter oriented if they don't have a viable go-to guy in the post. Defensively they also have to improve, especially in the interior. The only real defensive presence down low is Adonal Foyle. Taft and Biedrins have shown potential to be good defenders, but we can't bank on when this will happen. Also, although Golden State averages 42.25 rebounds (good enough for 5th in the league), they also allow 44.47 rebounds (2nd in the league). This could probably be due to a fast-paced game with plenty of shot attempts, but I'm sure the Warriors could work a bit harder on the boards, especially with their only efficient scorer being Jason Richardson. All in all, the Warriors won just 34 games, but I don't think their problem is as alarming as other teams who didn't make the playoffs. The talent is definitely there; I just feel as if another year getting chemistry and letting the team marinate will do them justice. You also have to factor in Baron Davis 28 games last season. With all the illadvised shots he puts up, he dishes out 9 assists per game. He's also taking very good care of the ball with a 3/1 assist per turnover ratio. So, clearly, as a point guard, he is finding his teammates and he also plays very good defense from the games I have seen him. With everyone pumped up for the new season along with the development of the young players on the roster, the Warriors should be improved. I'm actually rooting for them, being in a situation similar to the Knicks (crappy management, faithful fans etc). So, good luck. Just my 2 cents from the little I've seen.
We should sign a pass first PG this off season then, look to trade Baron for a big man. We should build around Jason Richardson for sure. He is younger then Baron and less injury prone. But first we should trade Davis, Murphy, and Dunlevey.
Once the coaching gets cleared up..even if its a much wiser Monty,we will start seeing things take shape. J Rich and Baron are core-for now,with Ike probably,and the best of the bigs---which has to play out during the season. Biedrens has a lot of the big man good stuff-though seems to have a range under 10 ft-including FT's. I do not see some mental block limiting Murphy. I think he needs a coach who can be bothered to COACH to observe and communicate,analyze and repair. I think the "Role" matters. If a guy is told to get out to the arc and fire 3's---that does not mean it's what he prefers or is all he's got. Taft and POB combined had about 2 weeks in the NBA. We need them playing ASAP to get some sense of what they have-what they need-then playing to learn by doing. At some point-the cream rises,the keepers will earn roles. One or more can be more than we expect. Monta and Pietrus don't yet have a slot as starters-though our best SF option as-is,would put J Rich at SF. That lets Pietrus/Ellis share the SG job-likely giving us a better overall game than Dun at SF. Perhaps this is the year Dun gets it togather. Assuming Monty lasts till game 1- Dunleavy,and the rest of last years starters will get the minutes and everyone else gets to wait for Mullin to step in and force a new direction.
If Murphy's a role player and not a good in any situation type guy like Jrich is, why did we overpay him? I mean his numbers justify that his contract is decent, but he's still a role player that is mediocre to poor in many aspects of power forward. A star player in the paint will succeed in any tempo or style. I just wish we had that star guy or forget locking anybody that's a role player up for six years.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If Murphy's a role player and not a good in any situation type guy like Jrich is, why did we overpay him? I mean his numbers justify that his contract is decent, but he's still a role player that is mediocre to poor in many aspects of power forward. A star player in the paint will succeed in any tempo or style. I just wish we had that star guy or forget locking anybody that's a role player up for six years.</div> Mullin gambled that either JRich or Murphy would blow up and the combo of the two would make them a good price to pay for both. The both have the same agent. If you look at it that way, it wasn't that bad of a deal. Especially because Murphy still puts up decent numbers.
Richardson. But he needs to start taking on the load of getting everyone involved and getting his points before the Warriors would take off.
I think it's no one player in particular. You guys have a lot of good pieces and have done a good job in the last couple of drafts in getting talented, young bigs. But, it all starts with the backcourt. JRich and Baron and a dynamic combo. The only issue with them is how streaky they are. Well, that and the fact that neither can play defense and Baron can't stay healthy. If Baron could stay healthy and if they could each stay consistent and play good defense, that'd be good. I really like what you guys have done in the frontcourt as well. Troy Murphy is solid and is almost a lock for a double double every night. Beyond that, you have a lot of good young talent to play PF/C as well. Patrick O' Bryant has a ton of potential and was rated by many as the best center in this past draft. Unfortunately for the Warriors, he's probably a couple years from contributing. Biedrins was pretty good last season when he got to play, as he shot a very good 57% from the floor, and and astounding 63.8% the year before. He's got great potential on both ends of the court and could turn out to be a star. I still think Taft was a steal in the '05 draft, and he could turn out to be very solid as well, as long as he can get a work ethic. Remember, this is the same kid many people had going #1 on their mocks at the beginning of that year before questions of his conditioning, work ethic, and attitude came up. If he could get his head on straight, he's got all the physical tools and raw talent to be a very good player. And besides them, you guy have Diogu. While he may be undersized at the PF/C spot in this league, many players, mainly Big Ben and Elton Brand, have shown that you don't need to be a particular size to play those spots, as each are undersized for their position. I think he, like the rest of their frontcourt guys, has potential to be good, and he showed flashes of it last year. If he gets consistent minutes, I think he could turn out a solid year. All in all, I think you guys have plenty of pieces to build with, especially in the frontcourt. Your backcourt is loaded with talent as well, with the two already mentioned and Mikael Pietrus, along with the ultra talented Monta Ellis. I think this team has a ton of talent to build around, just not one specific player.
I'd say no one on the current roster. Instead of building around a player, the Warriors need to build around a system. The Warriors don't have a dynamic player on their roster who can dominate a game. Baron Davis has the ability, but he's injury prone, can't take advantage of FTAs, and tends to put personal flair ahead of winning games. The league has been evolving the past few seasons towards parity, and unless you have a DWade/Shaq duo, you need depth to win in this league. The Warriors have depth, but it's young and I don't see any identity with this roster. This franchise has made every mistake in the book the last decade ... - Poor draft selections - Overpaying role players - Letting talent leave and prosper elsewhere - Constantly changing the roster and coaching staff Chris Mullin is slowly trying to correct these mistakes, but so far he's been Matt Millenesque as GM for the Warriors. It's going to come down to the players buying into Monty's style of fundamental, grind it out basketball for this team to win. OR they need to bring in a coach who runs are more wide open offense to take advantage of the speed and athleticism on this team. I agree with the core being Baron, JRich, and Ike. It's a solid trio and the backcourt of Baron & JRich could become the most productive backcourt in the league if they can find consistency. Everyone else needs to except and thrive in specific role and build from there.
Richardson only. Everybody else is either crappy, inconsistent, or inexperienced. You need to shake things up big time. :-/ You guys fired a GM latley?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck:</div><div class="quote_post">Richardson only. Everybody else is either crappy, inconsistent, or inexperienced. You need to shake things up big time. :-/ You guys fired a GM latley?</div> ? Anyway, I'd find a way to build around Monta, Ike, and Beans. Might not be possible due to terrible $$contracts$$ of Dun and Foyle, but that would be the proper course of action. JRich is a solid star-caliber player, but he won't take GS to the promised land without a star big man, and the Warriors aren't going to land a star big man. Baron Davis is the best player on the team, and I love the acquisition, but again this team doesn't have franchise or dynasty written anywhere on it. They're going to need star frontcourt players to contend, and they won't get that trying to trade Murphy or Foyle. So, they should be trying to juggle the cap issue, unload salaries, and be prepared to sign Ike, Beans, and Monta Ellis. All 3 of those players are going to be very good, and Monta could be great.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd say no one on the current roster. Instead of building around a player, the Warriors need to build around a system. The Warriors don't have a dynamic player on their roster who can dominate a game. Baron Davis has the ability, but he's injury prone, can't take advantage of FTAs, and tends to put personal flair ahead of winning games. The league has been evolving the past few seasons towards parity, and unless you have a DWade/Shaq duo, you need depth to win in this league. The Warriors have depth, but it's young and I don't see any identity with this roster. This franchise has made every mistake in the book the last decade ... - Poor draft selections - Overpaying role players - Letting talent leave and prosper elsewhere - Constantly changing the roster and coaching staff Chris Mullin is slowly trying to correct these mistakes, but so far he's been Matt Millenesque as GM for the Warriors. It's going to come down to the players buying into Monty's style of fundamental, grind it out basketball for this team to win. OR they need to bring in a coach who runs are more wide open offense to take advantage of the speed and athleticism on this team. I agree with the core being Baron, JRich, and Ike. It's a solid trio and the backcourt of Baron & JRich could become the most productive backcourt in the league if they can find consistency. Everyone else needs to except and thrive in specific role and build from there.</div> We definitely need a system, but we keep landing imbalanced players that don't fit under certain styles of tempo. They either too dumb to play halfcourt or too slow and uncreative to play open court ball. This is what typically happens when we have guys that don't control the paint, they aren't comfortable passing or doing the dirty work, and guys just can't shoot either off the dribble, from wide open, or from the foul line. Also, we've got the poorest transition D in the world because very few guys can keep their assignments in front, switch on rotations, and get out on a shooter or defend at the rim. Okay, maybe we ain't as bad as a team like the Raptors or somebody in terms of D, but we're pretty bad.
When we play perfect (no mistakes) we're pretty good, But if the other team plays perfect as well, they're way better than us most of the time. We've got a lot of inconsistent talent compared to other teams with less talent that are more consistent with things like shooting and doing the teamwork stuff. I feel like some of the role players we have are just not very good and that puts pressure on guys who are consistent but aren't really superstars. Jrich and Murphy for instance. We know Jrich at least thrives in any tempo, whereas Murphy tends to suffer a lot of areas. He's not that awesome, but he's not that bad.
I agree with the people who say to not build around one particular player. The Warriors should focus building a team like the Pistons, Mavericks, Kings(earlier in the decade in particular) and Phoenix. Instead of trying to find that perfect hard to get player, if the Warriors can just improve their starting SF(either by Dunleavy playing 82 games the way everyone knows he is capable of playing or finding a replacement) and Center position(by having one of the younger big men to step up and man the position), then I believe getting that strong starting lineup would be very much in reach. Then of course the Warriors have a good deep bench with the young talent that is on the team. This I guess is why I suggested in this thread earlier, that the Warriors should build around Baron/Jason/Ike. Man if Dunleavy did play everygame the way that he could, he would be such a good player and helpful for this team. Dunleavy in some way seems like the epitome of the Warriors last season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Clif25:</div><div class="quote_post"> Man if Dunleavy did play everygame the way that he could, he would be such a good player and helpful for this team. Dunleavy in some way seems like the epitome of the Warriors last season.</div> I think the epitome of the Warriors are both players like Dunleavy and Pietrus. We've got one guy who thinks like a basketball player, but has the athleticism of a parked car. We've got another guy who thinks like a parked car, and has the athleticism of a basketball player. Both couldn't seem to find the bucket at all this year. One has the ability to make the foul line using smarts and a great first step, but he doesn't get touches and he's not so fast beating defenders. The other has the ability to beat anybody he wants but he keeps running over defenders like charging fouls don't apply and bricking free throws worse than Jrich and Baron combined. To top it off, guys like Foyle and Biedrins shoot some of the lousiest foul shots the fans have ever seen. Why is it that the guys we're looking to move or have moved can shoot free throws (Murphy/Fisher/Jamison)? There just needs to be a balance... We need good judgement and finesse in a player as well as power and athleticism. It's highly important if our backup court is going to be comprised of guys like Jrich or either of Baron or Monta. I think Ike Diogu is fine where he is, but we might need more depth in the PF and C department which is why Taft or even Zarko could prove to be valuable at PF and why it's good to have 3 center prospects to evaluate. That whole locking up Foyle and Murphy back in '04 was just bad idea if neither one could be traded for the dollar amount signed. Since we're stuck in a sort of limbo with the amount of good moves we can make, we're in a post mortem about what went wrong when Mullin became GM or would could have happened if players started playing more consistent or smarter. I also like the input from other basketball fans. Mr J. brought up a good point of how many guys are ready to play right now? I sure hope guys like Ike and Taft ain't like our Euro projects.... We need ballers, not guys still figuring things out. It doesn't help that the position we need the most isn't nba ready since most nba ready centers go above the #9 pick in the draft.
