<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lakers4Life:</div><div class="quote_post">He has proven he can hold his own against the best PF's and C's ala Shaq and Garnett. Would you consider him a bust if he were to become like Ben Wallace?</div> Yeah, but is that worthy of being a first overall pick? If he is ever going to live up to his potential, he has to get more consistent, a better basketball IQ, a better offensive game, and he has to be able to catch the ball. Kwame Brown has not lived up to the expectations. Period. He is a bust until he proves me otherwise.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lakers4Life:</div><div class="quote_post">But still, Kwame is developing. His hands will hopefully get bigger and our coaching staff will try to calm him down and not be so quick to attack.</div> lol. hands get bigger, he's 24 aside from radiation treatments they won't.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting michiganave17:</div><div class="quote_post">What? dude nothings getting bigger he's a grown man!!!</div> Then why the hell can't he grip the ball? My little nephew is 16 and he is gripping the ball like he is vince carter.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brian:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, but <font color=""Red"">is that worthy of being a first overall pick?</font> If he is ever going to live up to his potential, he has to get more consistent, a better basketball IQ, a better offensive game, and he has to be able to catch the ball. Kwame Brown has not lived up to the expectations. Period. He is a bust until he proves me otherwise.</div> <font color=""red"">Only Micheal knows.</font> But the best way to describe Kwame Brown is to say that he has the frame and physical skills of a Jermaine and the basketball skills of a young Danny Manning. Brown could develop into a potential franchise player if he works extremely hard on his game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brian:</div><div class="quote_post">His hands do look pretty small........ Rap artist! And I thought "Shaq"uira was bad.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Only Micheal knows. But the best way to describe Kwame Brown is to say that he has the frame and physical skills of a Jermaine and the basketball skills of a young Danny Manning. Brown could develop into a potential franchise player if he works extremely hard on his game.</div> The basketball skills of a young Danny Manning? Manning averaged close to seventeen points coming out of college in his rookie year and most definitely had a higher basketball IQ than Kwame Brown does. You can say Deshawn Stevenson has the frame and physical skills of Tracy McGrady, but that really doesn't mean anything. Same goes for Stromile Swift and Amare Stoudemire. Its whether or not you have the work ethic and grasp on the concept of basketball that makes you a good player, and Brown hasn't exactly shown that much improvement. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Then why the hell can't he grip the ball? My little nephew is 16 and he is gripping the ball like he is vince carter.</div> Because he has small hands, duh.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">The basketball skills of a young Danny Manning? Manning averaged close to seventeen points coming out of college in his rookie year and most definitely had a higher basketball IQ than Kwame Brown does. You can say Deshawn Stevenson has the frame and physical skills of Tracy McGrady, but that really doesn't mean anything. Same goes for Stromile Swift and Amare Stoudemire. Its whether or not you have the work ethic and grasp on the concept of basketball that makes you a good player, and Brown hasn't exactly shown that much improvement. Because he has small hands, duh.</div> Who cares what they averaged in College? Edit: Kwame came out of high school. So what if Danny Manning averaged close to seventeen points coming out of college? Kwame Finished Glynn Academy as the school?s all-time leading rebounder (1,235) and shot blocker (605) and his 1,578 points rank him second all-time in scoring, 39 points shy of the school record?Played in and started a school record 102 games?Led Glynn Academy to an 81-21 record from 1997-2000?2001 McDonald?s All-American (17 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal)?Named to the USA Today All-USA Basketball first team?Named to the Parade Magazine All-America High School Boys Basketball First Team?One of five high school seniors named First-Team All-American by The Sporting News?2001 High School Player of the Year in the state of Georgia?Averaged 20.1 points, 13.3 rebounds, 5.8 blocked shots, 3.0 assists, and 2.0 steals as a senior.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lakers4Life:</div><div class="quote_post">Edit: Kwame came out of high school. So what if Danny Manning averaged close to seventeen points coming out of college? Kwame Finished Glynn Academy as the school?s all-time leading rebounder (1,235) and shot blocker (605) and his 1,578 points rank him second all-time in scoring, 39 points shy of the school record?Played in and started a school record 102 games?Led Glynn Academy to an 81-21 record from 1997-2000?2001 McDonald?s All-American (17 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal)?Named to the USA Today All-USA Basketball first team?Named to the Parade Magazine All-America High School Boys Basketball First Team?One of five high school seniors named First-Team All-American by The Sporting News?2001 High School Player of the Year in the state of Georgia?Averaged 20.1 points, 13.3 rebounds, 5.8 blocked shots, 3.0 assists, and 2.0 steals as a senior.</div> Too bad hes a bust. I dont care what you accomplished in high school. That doesnt mean jack. Everyone in the NBA was a superstar in high school. Bottom line is, if you dont perform up to your expectations, then your a bust.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Who cares what they averaged in College? Edit: Kwame came out of high school. So what if Danny Manning averaged close to seventeen points coming out of college? Kwame Finished Glynn Academy as the school’s all-time leading rebounder (1,235) and shot blocker (605) and his 1,578 points rank him second all-time in scoring, 39 points shy of the school record…Played in and started a school record 102 games…Led Glynn Academy to an 81-21 record from 1997-2000…2001 McDonald’s All-American (17 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal)…Named to the USA Today All-USA Basketball first team…Named to the Parade Magazine All-America High School Boys Basketball First Team…One of five high school seniors named First-Team All-American by The Sporting News…2001 High School Player of the Year in the state of Georgia…Averaged 20.1 points, 13.3 rebounds, 5.8 blocked shots, 3.0 assists, and 2.0 steals as a senior.</div> Good job, you can copy and paste. Alright, well lets say last season was Kwame Brown's first official NBA season coming out of four years of college. His averages were 7.4 ppg, 6.6 rpg, and 1 apg with a fairly high shooting percentage of .526% with 27.5 minutes. Note however, that a lot of his points and shots came from dunks and the inside no doubt created off of Bryant's double teams. And here are Danny Manning's second year (his first year he was injured most of the time)- 16.3 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 2.3 apg on 32 minutes a game. Its obvious Brown's the better rebounder, but a lot of that has to do with athleticism and as you put it, his physical frame, not much fundamentals (other than boxing out). Plus, you don't draft a player number one pick overall just for rebounding. Even though Brown plays about five or four less minutes, Manning is a much better scorer with a much more developed offensive game. Thus, ten times out of ten I would have taken Manning over a four year veteran Brown.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Good job, you can copy and paste.</div> No duh. You expect me to sit here and figure how to rearrange whats on nba.com <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Alright, well lets say last season was Kwame Brown's first official NBA season coming out of four years of college. His averages were 7.4 ppg, 6.6 rpg, and 1 apg with a fairly high shooting percentage of .526% with 27.5 minutes. Note however, that a lot of his points and shots came from dunks and the inside no doubt created off of Bryant's double teams. And here are Danny Manning's second year (his first year he was injured most of the time)- 16.3 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 2.3 apg on 32 minutes a game. Its obvious Brown's the better rebounder, but a lot of that has to do with athleticism and as you put it, his physical frame, not much fundamentals (other than boxing out). Plus, you don't draft a player number one pick overall just for rebounding. Even though Brown plays about five or four less minutes, Manning is a much better scorer with a much more developed offensive game. Thus, ten times out of ten I would have taken Manning over a four year veteran Brown.</div> If last season was Kwame's first, then this will be his breakout year. Projected Stats: 12.8 ppg 7.9 reb 1.05 blks
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> If last season was Kwame's first, then this will be his breakout year. Projected Stats: 12.8 ppg 7.9 reb 1.05 blks</div> In other words, you're assuming all this out of nowhere.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lakers4Life:</div><div class="quote_post">No duh. You expect me to sit here and figure how to rearrange whats on nba.com If last season was Kwame's first, then this will be his breakout year. Projected Stats: 12.8 ppg 7.9 reb 1.05 blks</div> that isnt exactly amazing. Christian Laetner averaged like 17 points and 7-8 boards a game as a rookie for the wolves, and look where he now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">In other words, you're assuming all this out of nowhere.</div> Or he is looking at Kwames end of the season stint and playoff averages <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post"> His averages were 7.4 ppg, 6.6 rpg, and 1 apg with a fairly high shooting percentage of .526% with 27.5 minutes. 16.3 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 2.3 apg on 32 minutes a game.</div> Looks like someone else can copy and paste as well <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">. Note however, that a lot of his points and shots came from dunks </div> Where you getting this from? Dunks on the inside? http://www.82games.com/0506/05LAL15A.HTM 17% doesn't count as a lot. Most were inside moves such as hook type shots, baby jumpers, etc. http://www.nba.com/draft2002/history/history_01draft.html I don't think busts should be considered on numbers or whatever but by what they bring to the table. A team drafts a certain person to develop them and make them fit their needs. Not averages 50, 50 and 10 every game Kwame brings defense, and has a decent inside game(when he can catch the ball ). I can only consider a player a bust if they are complete garbage in the NBA. Kwame is not so I don't consider him a bust. Chris Mihm on the other hand was overrated when coming from Texas as someone said in here. He was supposed to be an offensive and defensive nightmare.....obviously he is not. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brian:</div><div class="quote_post">When he was picked, people were saying that he would be a star one day in the league. Look where he is now.</div> Progressing along nicely if I had to guess.....Who is to say that Kwame wont do something in his career and atleast be a worthy player? He is already pretty good on the Lakers and imo we need him. His defense is great already. All he needs to do is work on his footwork and again catching the ball
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Franchise4Ever:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think busts should be considered on numbers or whatever but by what they bring to the table. A team drafts a certain person to develop them and make them fit their needs. Not averages 50, 50 and 10 every game Kwame brings defense, and has a decent inside game(when he can catch the ball ). I can only consider a player a bust if they are complete garbage in the NBA. Kwame is not so I don't consider him a bust. Chris Mihm on the other hand was overrated when coming from Texas as someone said in here. He was supposed to be an offensive and defensive nightmare.....obviously he is not.</div> A bust is if you do not live up to expectations. Kwame did not live up to the expectations. He was draft number 1 overall, and was expected to become a star in this league. Obviously that never happened. Can he turn it around? Sure, but as of now, there's no way to label him but a bust. If you are a number one overall pick, you have to have a bigger impact to the game. Enough said
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brian:</div><div class="quote_post">Obviously that never happened. </div> Never? 5 Years in the league and he is like 24..... <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brian:</div><div class="quote_post">Can he turn it around?</div> He has been turning it around. Haven't you seen his last part of the season stint? He was looking real good out there. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brian:</div><div class="quote_post">If you are a number one overall pick, you have to have a bigger impact to the game. </div> Uhm....I'd consider containing KG and other various superstars a big impact. A players worth isn't measured on purely offense, even if it was, Kwame isn't one of those centers with NO offensive moves to go to. His offense looks solid for the most part. Does it need polishing? Of course it does, so does Smush, Vujacic, and even Andrew Bynum.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lakers4Life:</div><div class="quote_post">Jermaine O'neal Kwame Brown Take a look at their 1st 4 seasons.</div> Okay? According to the stats, Kwame Brown's 2005-2006 season was right on par with his career averages. How exactly is that huge progression? When he was drafted, it was expected that he'd struggle his first few years, but five years in and stats-wise he hasn't improved significantly at all? If that's not a bust then I don't know it was. Look at other recent number one picks: Lebron, Yao, Dwight Howard, Kenyon Martin. Hell, Andrew Bogut's rookie season was as good as Kwame's best season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay? According to the stats, Kwame Brown's 2005-2006 season was right on par with his career averages. How exactly is that huge progression? When he was drafted, it was expected that he'd struggle his first few years, but five years in and stats-wise he hasn't improved significantly at all? If that's not a bust then I don't know it was. Look at other recent number one picks: Lebron, Yao, Dwight Howard, Kenyon Martin. Hell, Andrew Bogut's rookie season was as good as Kwame's best season.</div> First off LeBron is.....LeBron. He is amazing in his own right. I highly doubt anyone will come straight out of HS like him and do what he has done/been doing. Yao is not only 7'6" he had much experience playing in the CBA which I bet would prepare you 10x more than any HS in the USA would. Also please look at the 02 Draft class. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_NBA_Draft Dunleavy Jr. as a top 3? Dwight in again different in his own right. Not many players come along like Howard or Bron. Boguts rookie season wasn't as good as Kwames best season. Check again. Kenyon Martin has had time to flourish with Jason freaking Kidd bro. If playing on his team won't get you beautiful looks then I don't know what to say. Look at K-Marts stats these past seasons w/o Kidd. He isn't looking too good at all now is he? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">When Lakers center Chris Mihm went down with a season-ending ankle injury on March 12, 2006, Brown took over the starting center position. During his stint as a center, he raised his averages from 6.1 points and 6.3 rebounds to 12.3 points and 9.1 rebounds and started every game for the Lakers in the playoffs. The surprising consistency Brown showed while playing center prompted Phil Jackson to ponder giving Brown a starting center role in the 2006-2007 season (while possibly moving Mihm to power forward).</div> That to me is an impressive improvement to say the least.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Or he is looking at Kwames end of the season stint and playoff averages</div> Anyone can have a good stretch of games that makes them look incredible. Off the top of my head, Yao was doing really well towards the end of the season averaging something around 30 points and 12 rebounds. Now, do you really expect him to do the same for all of next season? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Looks like someone else can copy and paste as well</div> Sorry to burst your bubble, but I didn't copy and paste those stats technically. I used the NBA page as reference and typed them in myself, I'm s-m-r-t aren't I. Meanwhile, Lakers4life admittedly did so. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Where you getting this from? Dunks on the inside? http://www.82games.com/0506/05LAL15A.HTM 17% doesn't count as a lot. Most were inside moves such as hook type shots, baby jumpers, etc.</div> Right right, but you quoted me wrong, you missed "and the inside" right after dunks. I feel you should know these things. Anyway, true, 17% does not account for a lot, but 52% are from close range with overall, 72%. Those are pretty easy points there, considering he's getting wide open looks because teams envelop Bryant on defense. No doubt, there's some hook shots and little jumpers thrown in there, but if he was really a force on offense and had a wide array of post moves, his points per game would be bumped up. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I don't think busts should be considered on numbers or whatever but by what they bring to the table. A team drafts a certain person to develop them and make them fit their needs. Not averages 50, 50 and 10 every game </div> First of all, stats measure what players bring to the table, so if you don't consider them on numbers, its really hard to tell what they do bring to the table so to speak. The only exception is hustle and defense, but obviously the Wizards didn't draft Brown number one overall so he could just be an expert hustler () and good defender. You're correct on the fact that a team drafts a certain player to develop them and fill their needs. However, this is Kwame Brown we're talking about here. The Washington Wizards drafted him so he'll become their franchise player. At this rate, I doubt he'll ever become a franchise player or even anything above role player. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Kwame brings defense, and has a decent inside game(when he can catch the ball ). I can only consider a player a bust if they are complete garbage in the NBA. Kwame is not so I don't consider him a bust. Chris Mihm on the other hand was overrated when coming from Texas as someone said in here. He was supposed to be an offensive and defensive nightmare.....obviously he is not</div> Your call. But let me get this straight, you don't think Kwame Brown is a bust, yet you think Chris Mihm is?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Locke:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay? According to the stats, Kwame Brown's 2005-2006 season was right on par with his career averages. How exactly is that huge progression? When he was drafted, it was expected that he'd struggle his first few years, but five years in and stats-wise he hasn't improved significantly at all? If that's not a bust then I don't know it was. Look at other recent number one picks: Lebron, Yao, Dwight Howard, Kenyon Martin. Hell, Andrew Bogut's rookie season was as good as Kwame's best season.</div> Nicely said <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Franchise4Ever:</div><div class="quote_post">Uhm....I'd consider containing KG and other various superstars a big impact. A players worth isn't measured on purely offense, even if it was, Kwame isn't one of those centers with NO offensive moves to go to. His offense looks solid for the most part. Does it need polishing? Of course it does, so does Smush, Vujacic, and even Andrew Bynum.</div> Smush was undrafted, if I remember correctly. Sasha was drafted in the late first round, and Bynum is entering only his 2nd season in the league. Hear me out. Kwame Brown is not a bad player and has improved a lot in the past season. He is a vital part of our team, but that still doesn't take away from the fact that he hasn't lived up to the expectations of a number one overall pick. Like Locke said, if Kwame isn't a bust, who is? After 5 seasons in the league, he still shows virtually no offense. The only time you see him scoring the ball is up against smaller players, like the Suns front-court. He struggles on offense when he is matched up with bigger defenders. With 5 years already in the league, I expect him to have more basketball IQ than what he currently has. When he was drafted, people were saying that he will become the next big thing in the league. He will become an all star in the league. With five years in the league, Kwame still doesn't look like he can be a potential all star. He has the ability to become a great player one day. He has all the potential, but when will he be able to utilize his full potential? He hasn't been able in the past 5 seasons, so will he ever be able to? <font color=""Red"">Edit - </font>My bad Azx. I didnt see your post
