<div class="quote_poster">Quoting C.K.:</div><div class="quote_post">John Stockton and Jason Kidd are two players that deserved an MVP award. When you look at a guy like Steve Nash that won two it just baffles me how Stockton and Kidd didn't win at least one. Stockton was just in the wrong era, but Kidd should have won one...</div> Mainly because of different times and situations, you could argue KJ in there too as he was just as good a player offensively, and could defend too. Someone mentioned Ewing, that's definately a good one
With guys like Bill Walton voting for the MVP, the award is a joke these days. Nash doesn't deserve even one. Something's really wrong when Shaq has less MVP awards than Nash. Anyway, Clyde Drexler was good enough to win an MVP too.
Only considering retired players, it's Elgin Baylor and/or Jerry West. Those two are top 15, all time. I think they're far and away the greatest players who are retired and didn't win an MVP.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> With guys like Bill Walton voting for the MVP, the award is a joke these days. Nash doesn't deserve even one. Something's really wrong when Shaq has less MVP awards than Nash. </div> I don't agree. It depends on the timing (in terms of era) as well as the particular season. Each of Shaq's years could be argued against. When you look at it overall and recap on his seasons, in comparison with the other players that actually won the MVP, you can see that Shaq only completely deserved it during the 2000 season. 2005 was a toss-up, but I'll always take Nash's side because, whether it's cause of the offensive system or his teammates, Nash, ultimately, was the catalyst for that Pheonix team rising the way it did. Shaq rose the Heat to elite status as well, but the year before the Heat were already good enough to make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs while the Suns didn't even make the playoffs if I remember correctly. And if the Heat still had retained the Heat lineup they had the year before with Wade being as good as he became in 2004-2005, then I'd think the Heat would make the ECF anyways, Shaq or not. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Nash doesn't deserve even one </div> 2005 was a tossup but he deserved it in 2006 IMO. When you take a razor thin team missing argueably it's best player and on top of that have to hear low expectations (remember, everyone thought Pheonix would suck without Amare and everyone was ready to laugh at Nash and say he didn't deserve the MVP) about your team, and you still catapult them to the top of the standings, you deserve the MVP award. Were there other players that had a good case for MVP as well? Of course. Did Nash not deserve his award? No, there's absolutely no way you can make that statement. If you're a candidate in the first place (and a top candidate at that), there's a legit reason why you're there. No one will ever unanimously agree nowadays on the MVP, especially with such a broad range of choices, but to say Nash didn't deserve his award is blasphemous.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Jerry West Elgin Baylor John Stockton Gary Payton I don't agree with Kobe yet because he's only had one true MVP worthy season which was last season, and I still had Dirk and Lebron over him, so I can't say he's the best player to not get one unless he never get's one. He's not yet had a big winning season since he's been leading his team, so you can't say he's the best guy to never win an MVP. He still has a good amount of peak years left. Exactly what I was thinking too. If Kobe has an MVP like season and his team wins big, he will get the MVP award, unless someone else like Lebron is also tearing it up and winning big.</div> I see what you mean although I don't necessarily agree that if Kobe wins the most and plays big, that he will get an MVP from the media. I also didn't have LeBron or Dirk over Kobe this year either, but good points none the less.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Jerry West Elgin Baylor John Stockton Gary Payton </div> I agree with your list till you said that. I think its Stockton, Kidd, and Ewing
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">2005 was a tossup but he deserved it in 2006 IMO. When you take a razor thin team missing argueably it's best player and on top of that have to hear low expectations (remember, everyone thought Pheonix would suck without Amare and everyone was ready to laugh at Nash and say he didn't deserve the MVP) about your team, and you still catapult them to the top of the standings, you deserve the MVP award. Were there other players that had a good case for MVP as well? Of course. Did Nash not deserve his award? No, there's absolutely no way you can make that statement. If you're a candidate in the first place (and a top candidate at that), there's a legit reason why you're there. No one will ever unanimously agree nowadays on the MVP, especially with such a broad range of choices, but to say Nash didn't deserve his award is blasphemous.</div> Regardless if Amare went down they still had a solid team, w/ a lot of above average players coming off the bench. Eddie House, Raja Bell, Leandro Barbosa, Tim Thomas, The Matrix, Boris Diaw, James Jones All those players dropped into that system perfectly and fit extremely well. IMO he didn't deserve it one bit for the 05-06 year, candidite is okay but taking it home? . For 04-05 its debatable but acceptable. Someone mentioned Patrick Ewing, I gotta agree with that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Franchise4Ever:</div><div class="quote_post"> Eddie House, Raja Bell, Leandro Barbosa, Tim Thomas, The Matrix, Boris Diaw, Fred Jones</div> Lol, you had no clue at all at how good Boris Diaw was going to be (nobody did, not even the Phoenix staff knew what kind of player they were getting), and James Jones and Eddie House are nothing more than average 7th-8th mans at the most. Tim Thomas wasn't even added until about midway through the season. Nash still had Shawn Marion, but nobody thought they would get 50+ wins and take the division again. That's why he was MVP.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">Lol, you had no clue at all at how good Boris Diaw was going to be (nobody did, not even the Phoenix staff knew what kind of player they were getting), </div> True but doesn't mean he wasn't a good player in Atlanta. He merely got the minutes and play style to shine. Its like saying Kobe's rookie season to his sophmore is very unexpected, when you get more minutes and start your stats are going to go up. He got more minutes and he played in a run n' gun style play which is pretty obviously going to give you better stats. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">and James Jones and Eddie House are nothing more than average 7th-8th mans at the most. </div> Lol I was looking at the Toronto forums when I put Fred Jones They are still good shooters and players nonetheless Bobcats. In that play style they yet again become better than they are and shine. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">Tim Thomas wasn't even added until about midway through the season. </div> He still was a great addition, yet again especially to that play style. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post"> Nash still had Shawn Marion, but nobody thought they would get 50+ wins and take the division again.</div> So just because he does what no one was expecting he deserves it? Well then ****, give Kobe MVP for scoring 62 points in 3 quarters and 81 points. No one was expecting that. Nash had already shown what he could do in that system. Regardless of who was in it I bet they still would have made it. Give Nash different players last year and I bet any money he STILL would have made the playoffs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with your list till you said that. I think its Stockton, Kidd, and Ewing</div> Common, give Gary some love, in his prime he was playing DPOY type defense, and putting up 21-24 PPG and 8-9 APG. Seattle was winning big a lot of those years too. If you look at MVP voting: 2002 - 6th 2000 - 6th 1998 - Third behind MJ and Malone and ahead of Shaq 1997 - 6th 1996 - 6th 1994 - 6th He had some nice placed finishes, and in those 6th place finishes we have to consider that earlier when he was putting up the bigger numbers, he was getting beat by like MJ, Hakeem, DRob, Shaq, Malone. Not always those guys, but mostly them, and you can add guys like Penny, Pippen, Tim Bug and Ewing to the list. Also someone mentioned Drexler, that's a good one. Alonzo Mourning isn't a bad one either, that two year span between 98-99 and 99-00, he was a nice candidate. He was starting to beast it up, then injuries came, but he didn't have a long enough stretch. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I see what you mean although I don't necessarily agree that if Kobe wins the most and plays big, that he will get an MVP from the media. I also didn't have LeBron or Dirk over Kobe this year either, but good points none the less.</div> When we see it, we'll be assured. Last season was nice individually, and many Laker and/or Kobe fans were trying to argue that wins shouldn't matter so much, but considering there's been other guys who have put up great individual numbers, but not had the individual success and not won MVP, then Kobe is not a special case. I do think the fact that Kobe wasn't on some people's ballots was interesting, but if he has the combination of team success and individual numbers, the guys that "hate" him aren't going to be able to sway the voting against him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Common, give Gary some love, in his prime he was playing DPOY type defense, and putting up 21-24 PPG and 8-9 APG. Seattle was winning big a lot of those years too. If you look at MVP voting: 2002 - 6th 2000 - 6th 1998 - Third behind MJ and Malone and ahead of Shaq 1997 - 6th 1996 - 6th 1994 - 6th He had some nice placed finishes, and in those 6th place finishes we have to consider that earlier when he was putting up the bigger numbers, he was getting beat by like MJ, Hakeem, DRob, Shaq, Malone. Not always those guys, but mostly them, and you can add guys like Penny, Pippen, Tim Bug and Ewing to the list. Also someone mentioned Drexler, that's a good one. Alonzo Mourning isn't a bad one either, that two year span between 98-99 and 99-00, he was a nice candidate. He was starting to beast it up, then injuries came, but he didn't have a long enough stretch. When we see it, we'll be assured. Last season was nice individually, and many Laker and/or Kobe fans were trying to argue that wins shouldn't matter so much, but considering there's been other guys who have put up great individual numbers, but not had the individual success and not won MVP, then Kobe is not a special case. I do think the fact that Kobe wasn't on some people's ballots was interesting, but if he has the combination of team success and individual numbers, the guys that "hate" him aren't going to be able to sway the voting against him.</div> Yeah, he was good, but still, ewing, stockton, and kidd deserved it more than he did.
Kobe will eventually win one before his career ends. If he continues playing at the level he did last season (there's no reason he won't), he'll eventually get the recognition. He will get stiff competition from Lebron, Wade, Dirk for the next couple of years though so it won't be easy.
Baylor, West, and Stockton. I dont see why Patrick Ewing is up here. He is what top 10 center of all time likely. He isnt the best one without an MVP is he?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">Baylor, West, and Stockton. I dont see why Patrick Ewing is up here. He is what top 10 center of all time likely. He isnt the best one without an MVP is he?</div> I can't think of one better. He's clearly ahead of Mourning and Mutombo. I can't think of another center who was a perenniel allstar that didn't win an MVP.
I like the choices of Patrick Ewing and Gary Payton. Both players led their teams in their primes and wouldn't have gone far without them. They were great leaders and they deserved an MVP award.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">I can't think of one better. He's clearly ahead of Mourning and Mutombo. I can't think of another center who was a perenniel allstar that didn't win an MVP.</div> yeah as i've thought about it, i cant think of anyone better. Great Centers usually win rings.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">yeah as i've thought about it, i cant think of anyone better. Great Centers usually win rings.</div> I overlooked Robert Parish. But I'd definitely rank Ewing ahead of him. Elvin Hayes ... he was a PF/C. Arguably greater than Ewing, and no MVP.
