<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">wow, GP is one of the best players never to win an mvp, but there was never a year when he deserved to win an mvp. do you guys understand og15 and durvasa now? For his overall career gp is an mvp caliber player, but never had an outstanding enough year to win one</div> og15 said he is one of the best players to win mvp but he didn't deserve it. that makes no sense. i agree with what you said though. i kinda got confused at what og15 was saying. but thats true that gp was one of the best players to not win a mvp, but there was never a year he deserved it. well if there never was a year he deserved it, then why was he one of the best players to not win a mvp award if he didnt deserve it?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">og15 said he is one of the best players to win mvp but he didn't deserve it. that makes no sense. </div> Gary Payton is a great player, career-wise. Maybe top 30 all-time. But he never had a season in which he was the most valuable player in the league. Hence, he never deserved the award. How doesn't that make sense?
^^ Ok but, og15 said he was the best not win, and he didnt deserve which makes no sense. How do you not deserve to win the award, yet you are a player who was one of the best to not win. THAT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Gary Payton is a great player, career-wise. Maybe top 30 all-time. But he never had a season in which he was the most valuable player in the league. Hence, he never deserved the award. How doesn't that make sense?</div> But then you go on to say he is one of the best to never win one.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">I see flaws in your logic. You're going on the assumption that the "most valuable player" (by your standards) will be accurately chosen every year. I doubt the Media has correctly chosen the "most valuable player" by their/your normal standards, every single year. One gets the impression they arbitrarily decide things or modify the requirements to fit the players they personally like.</div> I didn't assume the MVP was accurately chosen each year. When I look at each year, I don't see a single year in which Payton was the most valuable player in the league. Irrespective of who actually won the award.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Franchise4Ever:</div><div class="quote_post">But then you go on to say he is one of the best to never win one.</div> Yeah ... so? Where exactly is the contraction you're seeing?
Durvasa.. listen what me and franchis are saying is that.. og15 and you said that payton didnt deserve to win a MVP award. He never had a year where he was considered a MVP. But then you guys said that he is one of the best to no win one. How could you not deserve it, and still be one of the best to not win. that is saying he should've won one but didnt deserve. isn't that saying he should've won one, meaning he deserved one??
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">^^ Ok but, og15 said he was the best not win, and he didnt deserve which makes no sense. How do you not deserve to win the award, yet you are a player who was one of the best to not win. THAT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL!</div> First, og15 said he was "one of the best" not to win. But even if he did feel he was the best player never to win the award, that still doesn't imply he should have won it. Afterall, his best years came when Jordan and Malone were winning the MVPs. Did he deserve it over them? The thread asks "who's the best player to never win MVP?" Not "which player was most deserving to win an MVP, but never did?" Those are two different questions, and they have different answers.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">I didn't assume the MVP was accurately chosen each year. When I look at each year, I don't see a single year in which Payton was the most valuable player in the league. Irrespective of who actually won the award.</div> Oh I see. I was not talking about Gary Payton. There has been some misunderstanding here.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">Durvasa.. listen what me and franchis are saying is that.. og15 and you said that payton didnt deserve to win a MVP award. He never had a year where he was considered a MVP. But then you guys said that he is one of the best to no win one. How could you not deserve it, and still be one of the best to not win. that is saying he should've won one but didnt deserve. isn't that saying he should've won one, meaning he deserved one??</div> There's a fallacy in your argument: (1) he never had a year in which he deserved MVP (2) he was one of the best not to win (3) this doesn't make sense, because <font color="red">(2) implies he should have won one</font>, but (1) says he didn't deserve it -- a contradiction It highlighted the part where the fallacy is. (2) does not imply he should have won.
ok so lemme get this right. You are saying he was a great player, but he never deserved one. am i right?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok..so you are saying that GP should've won one, but he never got a year to win one?</div> Huh? I'm not saying "he should have won" at all. I'm saying if you rank all the players in NBA history, Gary Payton is going to be near the top of players who did not win an MVP during their career. And, further, he never deserved the MVP in any particular year, because he was never "the most valuable player" in the league. Keep in mind that how many MVPs you got, or deserved, does not defined how great your career was. If some player, over a 20 year career, was the second most valuable player in the league each year, he'd have to be considered one of the greatest players ever. Probably greater than many player who won an MVP or two during their careers, and yet didn't have nearly the same longevity. And yet, he would not have deserved the MVP at any point in his career.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">ok so lemme get this right. You are saying he was a great player, but he never deserved one. am i right?</div> Yes ... further, he's amongst the greatest players in league history to have never won the MVP. I'd put Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, and maybe Patrick Ewing and John Stockton ahead of him. I can't really think of anyone else.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">Drexler??</div> Yeah, he'd have to be mentioned as well. Not sure if I'd consider him above Payton, though. That's pretty close ...
Ok i get yours and og15's point now. I agree with that too. I just didnt get that at first. Its true that Payton was a great player who never won one, but didnt deserve one. Meaning that Payton was a great player to not win one, but he didnt deserve one because Malone and Jordan were ahead of him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok i get yours and og15's point now. I agree with that too. I just didnt get that at first. Its true that Payton was a great player who never won one, but didnt deserve one. Meaning that Payton was a great player to not win one, but he didnt deserve one because Malone and Jordan were ahead of him.</div> Oh okay I see now. I was getting confused at first.
Lol..both of us were. I am glad that durvasa explained. For anyone that doesnt understand. GP was one of the best players to not win a MVP Award. He never got to win because he never really deserved to win one, and because Michael Jordan and Karl Malone were ahead of him at the era. He never deserved one which is the reason he never got one.
