a 20 ppg scorer is just a role player? a role player does not score 20 ppg sorry. And CV31 was a solid player for you guys, with rebounding, shooting, and spurts of scoring. fred jones? MAYBE 10ppg is he plays his butt off, nothin you couldnt get from someone else TJ? 15 and 7.5 would be great, MJ had 20 ppg and 6 apg Bargnani? is a rookie, and i highly doubt he will outpreform CV31 this year, actually i garuntee it Anthony parker? he was a nice pickup, but look what happened to the last euro league star to come over (teh pacers dude, sorry i cant spell his name). He was suposedley the best player in teh euro league, and wasnt as old if im not mistaken. Rasho? he is bad, but an upgrade, so thats nice, but i doubt you guys will ever like his inconsistent play. To me, if everything for you goes best case scenarion you improve a little, maybe 35-37 wins. If you guys struggle with chemistry with all these new additions (which is very likely), i see a 30-33 win season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">a 20 ppg scorer is just a role player? a role player does not score 20 ppg sorry. And CV31 was a solid player for you guys, with rebounding, shooting, and spurts of scoring. fred jones? MAYBE 10ppg is he plays his butt off, nothin you couldnt get from someone else TJ? 15 and 7.5 would be great, MJ had 20 ppg and 6 apg Bargnani? is a rookie, and i highly doubt he will outpreform CV31 this year, actually i garuntee it Anthony parker? he was a nice pickup, but look what happened to the last euro league star to come over (teh pacers dude, sorry i cant spell his name). He was suposedley the best player in teh euro league, and wasnt as old if im not mistaken. Rasho? he is bad, but an upgrade, so thats nice, but i doubt you guys will ever like his inconsistent play. To me, if everything for you goes best case scenarion you improve a little, maybe 35-37 wins. If you guys struggle with chemistry with all these new additions (which is very likely), i see a 30-33 win season.</div> See, Mike James' stats last year are almost Marbury-esque. They inflate his value and mask the problems that he refuses to address. Getting 20 ppg on a bottom feeder like we were last year is hardly impressive. What's more he completely dominated the ball. If you consider the switch from James to Ford, you have to look at more than their own production. James held back the team for large stretches. If Ford performs like he's capable of performing, not only will his stats be decent, the stats of Bosh, Peterson, etc. will be much improved. Fred Jones brings depth and athleticism. If you combine him with TJ Ford (since Jones is not replacing anyone), you've just about equalled the contribution James brought to us. I see no reason why Bargnani can't equal or surpass CV's production. Coming out of the draft, he's clearly the better prospect. They have similar games, but Bargnani's potential and experience surpass Villanueva's coming out of UConn. Now, I'm not saying I expect this production out of him, but I didn't expect it out of CV either. So he shouldn't be written off so easily. At the very least, he provides a versatile scorer off the bench. Well, first off, Parker a bigger prospect than Sarunas (I think you were talking about him) ever was. He's been the best player in Europe for last 4 or so seasons. It just took someone with balls like Colangelo, to offer him the money that he felt he deserved. I think he may prove to be our best aquisition of the offseason. He's a good scorer. Versatile, nice shooting touch, and he's quick. What's more he's a very good defender. Trust me, after the last 3 seasons, I'll accept anyone who can hold down the 5 spot. Rasho's contract might be too big, but its only with us for 3 years. ....And that brings me to another point about this offseason. It's not directly related to our record this season, but I think it's the smartest part of Colangelo's offseason. Almost everyone's contract ends in 3-4 seasons. He's made some bold moves that could really push us over the top. But, if they don't, he won't have to wait long for some flexibility again.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">To me, if everything for you goes best case scenarion you improve a little, maybe 35-37 wins. If you guys struggle with chemistry with all these new additions (which is very likely), i see a 30-33 win season.</div> ....but considering the East is better as a whole, those win totals are still better than what we had last season, so all in all, we're a better team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">a 20 ppg scorer is just a role player? a role player does not score 20 ppg sorry. And CV31 was a solid player for you guys, with rebounding, shooting, and spurts of scoring.</div> If Mike James isn't a role player in your book, then what is he? He sure as hell isn't an all-star. Trust me, if you got pissed off with Cassell shooting too much (which I don't think he did when he was in Minnesota anyway), then you are going to rip your hair out when you watch Mike James. If he shoots less and defers to Garnett, then he will be fine. If he dominates the ball like he did in Toronto, your not going to like it.
Wow all of these Minnesota guys have clearly never seen Mike James play if the say he's more then a role player. They've probably only looked at his numbers on paper, seen the 20 and 6 and thought he was #2 option for a good team. If you watched Mike at all last year you could see that he was only playing for himself and his contract, and not to try and help the Raptors win. He screwed up the flow of the Raptors offense so many times with his shoot first mentality, and his explanation was always that he is a "playmaker", whether it was passing or shooting, which clearly was not the case as he often over looked open team mates (often CB4) to get his won shot. One thing I had to laugh at about his selfishness was when he said the reason he wasn't getting many assists was because "the drain the shot when Jose passes them the ball, but not when I do" which was laughable. I can tell you right now that CB4 and Mo Petes ppg will go up about 3-4 this season with a og whos actually willing to give them the ball. You guys in Minny will see quickly how overrated Mike James is. My prediction fot the record this year is 40-42 and 6-8 seed in the east, because we are improved defensively and have a deeper bench, and also TJ Ford is a HUGE upgrade.
You can say what you want about Mike James, but his TS% is really nice. He did produce about 20 in player efficiency rating which isn't so bad. He's not an all-star but a nice role player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">a 20 ppg scorer is just a role player? a role player does not score 20 ppg sorry. And CV31 was a solid player for you guys, with rebounding, shooting, and spurts of scoring.</div> Like I said before, just because someone chooses to believe they're a superstar does not mean they are a superstar. Mike James hogged the ball perhaps more then any other player I've seen in a Raptors uniform. The guy would literally do everything while dribbling and force up a shot, regardless of if it's a close game or not. Yes, even with 20 ppg he's a role player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">you lost mike james and CV31 for bargnani and ford, both are downgrades.</div> Have you ever seen Charlie V play D??? He has absolutly no clue what to do on defense. None whatsoever and I don't think he can be taught either. He has no defensive awareness and can't play help D, can't block shots, can't stay with his man 1 on 1. Bargnani on the other hand we know can block shots and intimidate slashers. We don't know about his 1 on 1 defense yet but I'm sure if he can block that well, he won't have much trouble.
YOu guys are rediculous, when you had CV31, you were talking about him being an all star soon, now bargnani is gonna put up better numbers than him this year? Mike Jame sisnt a superstar, and i never said he was. He just isnt a role player. Hassell and mad dog are role players, so is kyle korver, not MJ. And you commpared him to marbury, who many considered one of the most skilled pg's in the league, he just has team struggles. Mike James won a championship in Detriot with his tough D, and consistent scoring off the bench. How come just about every rap fan doesnt like MJ or CV31 now? I know some of you hated MJ when you guys had him, but early in the season ALL of you were saying, "we better re-sign mike james, thats the first thing we need to do." you guys wanted him cause bosh liked him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">YOu guys are rediculous, when you had CV31, you were talking about him being an all star soon, now bargnani is gonna put up better numbers than him this year? Mike Jame sisnt a superstar, and i never said he was. He just isnt a role player. Hassell and mad dog are role players, so is kyle korver, not MJ. And you commpared him to marbury, who many considered one of the most skilled pg's in the league, he just has team struggles. Mike James won a championship in Detriot with his tough D, and consistent scoring off the bench. How come just about every rap fan doesnt like MJ or CV31 now? I know some of you hated MJ when you guys had him, but early in the season ALL of you were saying, "we better re-sign mike james, thats the first thing we need to do." you guys wanted him cause bosh liked him.</div> I don't know which Raptors you're directing that to particular, but yeah I do agree that most Raptors fans were like that...however a couple of fans don't speak for the entire fandom. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> YOu guys are rediculous, when you had CV31, you were talking about him being an all star soon, now bargnani is gonna put up better numbers than him this year? </div> I don't think any of us said that? Mr.Wade just said that Andrea's defensive prescence is superior to that of Charlie's. I still stand by the fact that I think Charlie will end up being an all-star player one day...but considering what the Raptors have done this season so far, I'd still take all the other players we got over him. As I said before, we have 3-4 solid role players to back up the 2 ROLE PLAYERS we lost. Charlie V, at this point, is still a role player...a very good role player but a role player nonetheless. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Mike Jame sisnt a superstar, and i never said he was. He just isnt a role player. </div> Well if he isn't a superstar or a role player then you must assume that he's a borderline star. Which I don't agree with either. Hoisting 19/20 shots per game on a bottom feeding team AND hogging the ball in the process to pad up your stats don't make you a star. I'd consider even Charlie V more of a star then Mike James. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How come just about every rap fan doesnt like MJ or CV31 now?</div> Well, I don't think none of us hate CV31...I just think with the amount of players we've added, I won't be thinking about him too much. I never liked Mike James from the beggnining so I can't really comment on the MJ part. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> know some of you hated MJ when you guys had him, but early in the season ALL of you were saying, "we better re-sign mike james, thats the first thing we need to do." </div> Mike James surprised me with his scoring early on in the year...I never at any point said we need to resign him...however, a lot of people did say we need to resign him cause they felt that he was a steal compared to Alston. However, 25 games into the season, 90% of those MJ fans were most likely off his bandwagon after seeing how much he dominated the ball and talked in the 3rd person.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Junoon:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know which Raptors you're directing that to particular, but yeah I do agree that most Raptors fans were like that...however a couple of fans don't speak for the entire fandom. I don't think any of us said that? Mr.Wade just said that Andrea's defensive prescence is superior to that of Charlie's. I still stand by the fact that I think Charlie will end up being an all-star player one day...but considering what the Raptors have done this season so far, I'd still take all the other players we got over him. As I said before, we have 3-4 solid role players to back up the 2 ROLE PLAYERS we lost. Charlie V, at this point, is still a role player...a very good role player but a role player nonetheless. Well if he isn't a superstar or a role player then you must assume that he's a borderline star. Which I don't agree with either. Hoisting 19/20 shots per game on a bottom feeding team AND hogging the ball in the process to pad up your stats don't make you a star. I'd consider even Charlie V more of a star then Mike James. Well, I don't think none of us hate CV31...I just think with the amount of players we've added, I won't be thinking about him too much. I never liked Mike James from the beggnining so I can't really comment on the MJ part. Mike James surprised me with his scoring early on in the year...I never at any point said we need to resign him...however, a lot of people did say we need to resign him cause they felt that he was a steal compared to Alston. However, 25 games into the season, 90% of those MJ fans were most likely off his bandwagon after seeing how much he dominated the ball and talked in the 3rd person.</div> I know Mike James is not an all-star, but is he really a hog? I wouldn't go that far. He is very efficient. People are being harsh on him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">YOu guys are rediculous, when you had CV31, you were talking about him being an all star soon, now bargnani is gonna put up better numbers than him this year? Mike Jame sisnt a superstar, and i never said he was. He just isnt a role player. Hassell and mad dog are role players, so is kyle korver, not MJ. And you commpared him to marbury, who many considered one of the most skilled pg's in the league, he just has team struggles. Mike James won a championship in Detriot with his tough D, and consistent scoring off the bench. How come just about every rap fan doesnt like MJ or CV31 now? I know some of you hated MJ when you guys had him, but early in the season ALL of you were saying, "we better re-sign mike james, thats the first thing we need to do." you guys wanted him cause bosh liked him.</div> Who said CV still can't be a superstar? His future production has nothing to do with us replacing what he brought last year. The point that I made (and that you obviously missed), is that Bargnani is much better and highly touted prospect coming in as a rookie. Whether he can equal Villanueva's production remains to be seen, but I'm not ruling it out. You're really restricting what a role player is. If not on a bottom feeder team, Mike James is a role player. He can only score 20 ppg by dominating the ball and ruining a team's flow. The Mike James that came off the bench in Detroit, and the one that you gave that big contract to are completely different. After a year in Toronto, he's come under the impression that he's a good enough scorer that he doesn't have to defend as hard, or move the ball around as much. And you misunderstood the Marbury comparison. Mike James is similar to Marbury, in that both players rack up big point and assist totals by dominating the ball. If you simply look at either player's stats, you'd miss the team's record and the fact that the offense often becomes stagnant when they're on the floor. I never said I disliked Villanueva. In fact, he's been one of my favourite Raptor's player, despite only staying here for a season. But the fact is, the excitement around him last year was in anticipation of what he would bring, not necessarily his production. And, honestly, I wanted to trade Mike James after about 2 months of him. His value was inflated and he was beginning to believe that he deserved a hell of a lot money. The only reason I even thought of keeping him was because Bosh had publicly expressed his desire to play with him, and I wanted to make sure we extended him. But even Bosh got tired of him by the end of the season, as evidenced by some comments he made on the radio about the need for a pass-first point guard.
Im not trying to say that all of you guys say this and that, but the general vibe around the forum is what i was talking about. And chutney said that bargnani will likely match if not surpass CV31's production, there is no way a rookie like bargnani puts up better numbers than CV31. I agree with almost all of your post juonoon, except for the mj part, huevon stated that his ts% was actualy pretty good. sorry chitney we have a misunderstanding, i was talking about CV31 this year's production vs. Bargnani's production this year. we both got messed up. nevermind. And again i know not all of you liked mj and cv31 then, nad hate him now, but a lot you are acting like they are garbage. Remember the fire colangelo thread?
EDIT: I'm glad we understand each other FreshPrince. To tell you the truth, the Fire Colangelo thread started off as an exaggeration that was meant to be funny. Our main beef (and I still believe it to a certain extent), is that Villanueva had a hell of a lot of potential. And it's hard to think that he won't be doing it in a Raptors uniform, after all we went through (proving doubters wrong, Stephen A. Smith, etc.). In the end, though, we got to look at realistically. Bargnani has as much potential, if not more, than Villanueva. And Colangelo brought enough depth to more than surpass CV's production last year. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">I know Mike James is not an all-star, but is he really a hog? I wouldn't go that far. He is very efficient. People are being harsh on him.</div> He definitely is a hog. James is an efficient scorer, but the problem is that he plays point guard. His assists usually come when he's exhausted his own options and kicks it out after a drive. He doesn't initiate the offense enough.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He definitely is a hog. James is an efficient scorer, but the problem is that he plays point guard. His assists usually come when he's exhausted his own options and kicks it out after a drive. He doesn't initiate the offense enough.</div> Same thing I was going to say.
He doesn't initiate the offense enough, that is one thing, but I fail to see how that makes him a complete hog. His efficiency speaks for itself, even if he dominates the ball, he is still a useful offensive player.
Well, stats don't always tell the story. After watching many Raptors games last season, I would find myself cursing at him everytime he tocuhed the ball in the 4th quarter because I knew he wouldn't give the ball to anyone else. I remember so many times, it'd be a close game and there would be like 20 seconds left on the shot clock and he'd take a jumpshot over 2 defenders for absolutely no reason. More then anything, I felt he was trying to play "hero" or "star" too often, and it really irked me. I think he's a fine player, just not my type of player. You don't do that kind of stuff with Chris Bosh wide open or with single coverage in the post. Granted, Bosh needs to increase his late-game production but still, don't jack up shots over 5 people for absolutely no reason. That **** is irritating as hell. And yes, I know this is coming from a Kobe fan but...oh man, I won't even bother talking about how irritating it is to watch Mike James try to be a superstar in 4th quarters. I don't even care if he bailed us for some 4th quarters this season, the fact is that the shots he created for himself were usually forced and he refused to acknowledge the other 4 players on the court. It's not like he's surrounded by Brian Cook, damn, you had Mo Pete and Chris Bosh and not to mention CV on your side.
^^Cassell was the same way in minny, and thats why he bugged me. He would NEVER pass in the fourth because he was the hero, an he was gonna make the shot. He made some, but lost us some too.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Junoon:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, stats don't always tell the story. After watching many Raptors games last season, I would find myself cursing at him everytime he tocuhed the ball in the 4th quarter because I knew he wouldn't give the ball to anyone else. I remember so many times, it'd be a close game and there would be like 20 seconds left on the shot clock and he'd take a jumpshot over 2 defenders for absolutely no reason. More then anything, I felt he was trying to play "hero" or "star" too often, and it really irked me. I think he's a fine player, just not my type of player. You don't do that kind of stuff with Chris Bosh wide open or with single coverage in the post. Granted, Bosh needs to increase his late-game production but still, don't jack up shots over 5 people for absolutely no reason. That **** is irritating as hell. And yes, I know this is coming from a Kobe fan but...oh man, I won't even bother talking about how irritating it is to watch Mike James try to be a superstar in 4th quarters. I don't even care if he bailed us for some 4th quarters this season, the fact is that the shots he created for himself were usually forced and he refused to acknowledge the other 4 players on the court. It's not like he's surrounded by Brian Cook, damn, you had Mo Pete and Chris Bosh and not to mention CV on your side.</div> He's an irritating, fine player then. Oh well.
