Ok today is the second edition of the Heat debates featuring huevonkiller and Umair 15. Here is the question: Pat Riley was very high on Chris Bosh and said he would've selected him had he been available at 5. Suppose Toronto drafted Wade instead of Bosh leading him into Miami's hands. Where would our team be today?
Probably with shaq and without wade. If LA still did the trade for Odom and "others" they would have likely asked for bosh also and depending on how riley felt he might have gone for it. So bosh would be playing in LA.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brasco:</div><div class="quote_post">Probably with shaq and without wade. If LA still did the trade for Odom and "others" they would have likely asked for bosh also and depending on how riley felt he might have gone for it. So bosh would be playing in LA.</div> Uuuhhh...this is between huevonkiller and umair15.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Playmaker15:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok today is the second edition of the Heat debates featuring huevonkiller and Umair 15. Here is the question: Pat Riley was very high on Chris Bosh and said he would've selected him had he been available at 5. Suppose Toronto drafted Wade instead of Bosh leading him into Miami's hands. Where would our team be today?</div> With Bosh instead of Wade, there is no guarantee that the Heat would still have won a title. However: If the Heat were to initiate the Shaq trade as planned (with Bosh on the roster) the Heat wouldn't be in as bad a situation as one might first think. Although, Udonis Haslem would be more expendable of course (or make him into a solid back-up and not draft Wayne Simien in 2005). The Starting Roster except for Wade and Haslem, would not be changed. (James Posey/Antoine Walker would still be the Small Fowards). With Shaq's ability to enhance the efficiency of perimeter players (like Damon Jones or Nick Anderson from the Magic), the Heat could have gone after one of the many serviceable guards, and be set (e.g. some sort of catalyst with range). All-Star Big men are harder to come by. Chris Bosh's 23.1 PER and his 39 MPG, make him quite a valuable/durable piece. He's got a great TS%, has a good mid-range game, and gets to the free throw line 8+ times a game (82% Free Throw shooter). The Heat, being in that lackluster division/conference, would still be perennial contenders and have made the ECF or Finals throughout his tenure.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">With Bosh instead of Wade, there is no guarantee that the Heat would still have won a title. However: If the Heat were to initiate the Shaq trade as planned (with Bosh on the roster) the Heat wouldn't be in as bad a situation as one might first think. Although, Udonis Haslem would be more expendable of course (or make him into a solid back-up and not draft Wayne Simien in 2005). The Starting Roster except for Wade and Haslem, would not be changed. (James Posey/Antoine Walker would still be the Small Fowards). With Shaq's ability to enhance the efficiency of perimeter players (like Damon Jones or Nick Anderson from the Magic), the Heat could have gone after one of the many serviceable guards, and be set (e.g. some sort of catalyst with range). All-Star Big men are harder to come by. Chris Bosh's 23.1 PER and his 39 MPG, make him quite a valuable/durable piece. He's got a great TS%, has a good mid-range game, and gets to the free throw line 8+ times a game (82% Free Throw shooter). The Heat, being in that lackluster division/conference, would still be perennial contenders and have made the ECF or Finals throughout his tenure.</div> I disagree. I think that team would've been worse. Bosh is getting better, but slowly, meaning that if Heat had Bosh, they would'nt have won a championship last year. Wade is a leader and a great, quickly improving star. He brings quality leadership, athleticism, and energy to the team which Bosh wouldn't have brought. Bosh and Shaq would've been the Twin Towers, but they would'nt have gotten any production with their backcourt, as much as they do now with Wade. With Wade, Heat get help from both frontcourt and backcourt. The team is much more spread around with Wade. Udonis Haslem is very good and has a consistent 10-12 foot jumper. He is the type of a pf that Heat need. With Wade, they got a quick athletic guard who can do just about everything. Bosh is good, but I think that Heat made the right decision by drafting Wade, which is the reason they won their championship, and are a big threat in the East. Because of Wade, they are a good title contending team. With Bosh, Heat would only be a playoff contender.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">I disagree. I think that team would've been worse. Bosh is getting better, but slowly, meaning that if Heat had Bosh, they would'nt have won a championship last year.</div> Isn't this what I said? No where in my previous post did I say they would have most likely won a championship, but due to the lack of serious threats in the East, they would have certainly been contenders. Wade flourished earlier, but Bosh's statistical improvement from his sophomore year to his third year in the NBA was large. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Wade is a leader and a great, quickly improving star. He brings quality leadership, athleticism, and energy to the team which Bosh wouldn't have brought. </div> Yes, we know Wade is athletic, but how does one know Bosh is not a leader or brings energy to his team? That just seems like you are playing favorites there. At least my previous post is more closely based on facts. Here's a thought: Bosh is also quickly improving and has All-Star PER. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Bosh and Shaq would've been the Twin Towers, but they would'nt have gotten any production with their backcourt, as much as they do now with Wade. </div> Obviously not, but they wouldn't have as much production in the frontcourt if they had Haslem instead of Bosh. You're also making it seem like there is a shortage on serviceable 2 guards in the NBA. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> With Wade, Heat get help from both frontcourt and backcourt. The team is much more spread around with Wade. Udonis Haslem is very good and has a consistent 10-12 foot jumper</div> If they had Bosh, they wouldn't be able to acquire help in the backcourt? Udonis Haslem is nice, but let's not overrate his offensive skills. He's much less efficient than Bosh per possession. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> He is the type of a pf that Heat need. With Wade, they got a quick athletic guard who can do just about everything.</div> Bosh is a better PF and can do various things as well. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Bosh is good, but I think that Heat made the right decision by drafting Wade, which is the reason they won their championship, and are a big threat in the East. Because of Wade, they are a good title contending team. With Bosh, Heat would only be a playoff contender.</div> I agree that Wade was the better choice, one never knows if the Heat would have been able to win a championship with Bosh. But how could they not be a huge threat in the East with Chris? That's ridiculous, they'd be a top 2 seed (with Shaq and Bosh on the team? Christ, the dropoff wouldn't be that much, regular season wise).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">Isn't this what I said? No where in my previous post did I say they would have most likely won a championship, but due to the lack of serious threats in the East, they would have certainly been contenders. </div> Like i said before they would've been playoff contenders. Not title contenders that they are with Wade. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, we know Wade is athletic, but how does one know Bosh is not a leader or brings energy to his team? That just seems like you are playing favorites there. At least my previous post is more closely based on facts. Here's a thought: Bosh is also quickly improving and has All-Star PER.</div> I dont need facts to answer the question. Bosh is a leader, and brings energy, but he would not have brought as much energy as Wade does. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Obviously not, but they wouldn't have as much production in the frontcourt if they had Haslem instead of Bosh. You're also making it seem like there is a shortage on serviceable 2 guards in the NBA.</div> FYI.. Bosh makes more than Wade. Bosh makes $4,235,220. While D-Wade makes $3,841,442. So what my point is that, if they would've had Bosh, they would've had less money meaning they would'nt have that much money to get a decent SG. Frontcourt would be packed if Shaq and Bosh were together. With D-Wade, Heat get a balanced starting lineup. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If they had Bosh, they wouldn't be able to acquire help in the backcourt? Udonis Haslem is nice, but let's not overrate his offensive skills. He's much less efficient than Bosh per possession.</div> Like i said before. Bosh makes more than Wade, meaning Heat would've had less money to get a decent 2. Was I ever comparing Bosh to Haslem. I am saying that Haslem is good and has some skills. Im not comparing him to Bosh. I am saying Heat have a good team. With a decent Haslem and a great Wade. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Bosh is a better PF and can do various things as well.</div> Who is comparing Bosh and Haslem?? Btw-- Wade is an explosive offensive talent. A clutch player. A playmaker. Tough defender. A great slasher. Last, but not least, Outstanding Athlete <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree that Wade was the better choice, one never knows if the Heat would have been able to win a championship with Bosh. But how could they not be a huge threat in the East with Bosh? That's ridiculous, they'd be a top 2 seed (with Shaq and Bosh on the team? Christ, the dropoff wouldn't be that much, regular season wise).</div> Yes, they would be a good playoff team in East, but look at this. Pistons would beat them easily if they had Bosh. The main reason Pistons lost was because of Wade. Holding Wade is much harder than holding Bosh. R.Wallace would probably get done up by Bosh, but would the Pistons get hurt as much as they did with Wade? You think Bosh would be a big problem for Pistons as much as Wade was? Heat would be a playoff contender, not a title contender like they are with Wade. Ok say if Heat were playing against Cavs. Would Bosh hurt them as much as Wade did? Remember Bosh would go against Gooden, a decent defender. With that, James would kill Heat. They would've have the imaginary decent 2 guarding him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">Like i said before they would've been playoff contenders. Not title contenders that they are with Wade.</div> You should have said, "not champions like they are with Wade". Getting to the Finals through the East is easier, although I do not think they would win. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I dont need facts to answer the question. Bosh is a leader, and brings energy, but he would not have brought as much energy as Wade does.</div> Right, I never claimed otherwise. I just wanted to point out that Chris obviously brings leadership and energy to the team. I wouldn't say more than Wade. That is harder to determine. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> FYI.. Bosh makes more than Wade. Bosh makes $4,235,220. While D-Wade makes $3,841,442. So what my point is that, if they would've had Bosh, they would've had less money meaning they would'nt have that much money to get a decent SG. Frontcourt would be packed if Shaq and Bosh were together. With D-Wade, Heat get a balanced starting lineup. </div> This is easily your worst point. You can't be serious. The difference is nothing really. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Like i said before. Bosh makes more than Wade, meaning Heat would've had less money to get a decent 2.</div> Yes you were incorrectly saying this before. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Was I ever comparing Bosh to Haslem. I am saying that Haslem is good and has some skills. Im not comparing him to Bosh. I am saying Heat have a good team. With a decent Haslem and a great Wade.</div> You said Haslem is "very good". I would say Bosh is very good, so I was under this impression. You did not say Haslem was just good enough for the job. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Who is comparing Bosh and Haslem??</div> You did. "He is the type of power foward they need.", is what you said about Haslem. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Btw-- Wade is an explosive offensive talent. A clutch player. A playmaker. Tough defender. A great slasher. Last, but not least, Outstanding Athlete </div> Tough defender? No. Wade is an average/slightly above average defender. I'll repeat, Bosh also gets to the free throw line, can post and jumpshoot and has an amazing TS% rivaling Shaq. They are both outstanding, just that I believe the Heat would go a bit further with Wade. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Yes, they would be a good playoff team in East, but look at this. Pistons would beat them easily if they had Bosh. The main reason Pistons lost was because of Wade. Holding Wade is much harder than holding Bosh. R.Wallace would probably get done up by Bosh, but would the Pistons get hurt as much as they did with Wade? You think Bosh would be a big problem for Pistons as much as Wade was? Heat would be a playoff contender, not a title contender like they are with Wade. Ok say if Heat were playing against Cavs. Would Bosh hurt them as much as Wade did? Remember Bosh would go against Gooden, a decent defender. With that, James would kill Heat. They would've have the imaginary decent 2 guarding him.</div> I said the Heat would reach the Easter conference Finals or the Finals. If they lose to the Pistons or Cavs at that point, that would validate my prediction of (about) the round they would get eliminated.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Playmaker15:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok today is the second edition of the Heat debates featuring huevonkiller and Umair 15. Here is the question: Pat Riley was very high on Chris Bosh and said he would've selected him had he been available at 5. Suppose Toronto drafted Wade instead of Bosh leading him into Miami's hands. Where would our team be today?</div> What are you talking about? Read the question carefully. It says what would be the status of the Heat today. Not a Pro-Bosh, Anti-Bosh type of argument. Your latter posts make no sense. You read too fast or something.
Umm not sure if I should post this here but whatever, wouldnt shaq not have gone to heat without wade, I remember he said he wanted to make wade better so i doubt he could do much for bosh... just my opionion.
No you're not supposed to post here and a lot of things in this thread are attempts at educated guesses. This argument would be stale/brief if it turns out he'd rather not come to the Heat with Bosh, one just has to be optimistic (there would also be less to argue otherwise). My first reply alludes to your concerns. Hopefully this post and yours will get deleted.
Heat are not better with Chris Bosh. I would first question if Bosh can lead his team to the playoffs his first season (let alone Semi-Finals and 2 wins against the title favorite Pacers at that time), impress Shaq enough to want him to come to Miami, nearly lead the Heat to an NBA Finals in his 2nd season, and to their first title in his 3rd season. Also, for all the talk about Big men, the NBA is really about Guards and G-Fs. They're the ones that have the ball in their hands the majority of the time and are the only ones you tend to go to in a game winning situations.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Heat4Life:</div><div class="quote_post">Heat are not better with Chris Bosh. I would first question if Bosh can lead his team to the playoffs his first season (let alone Semi-Finals and 2 wins against the title favorite Pacers at that time), impress Shaq enough to want him to come to Miami, nearly lead the Heat to an NBA Finals in his 2nd season, and to their first title in his 3rd season.</div> It's all speculation. Read the first reply. I said, "if they can initiate the Shaq trade". Umair did not disagree, so we continued to argue as if Shaq is on the team. And I never said that the Heat are better with Chris bosh. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Also, for all the talk about Big men, the NBA is really about Guards and G-Fs. They're the ones that have the ball in their hands the majority of the time and are the only ones you tend to go to in a game winning situations.</div> Ok, it depends on which two players you are comparing. But there are far more serviceable guards, g-fs, than big men.
