<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">I think you're underrating the Lakers and Clippers, and overrating the Hornets.</div> And I think your underrating the Hornets. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Hornets are a team that didn't even make the playoffs last year, and while I like what they did in the offseason, you don't know if that'll lead to wins.</div> Maybe, but you don't if that will lead to more losses. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">They could have chemistry issues with their new guys, or they simply might not even produce.</div> I think you've forgotten the dynamic season Chris Paul had. He was a BIG reason why David West averaged 17 PPG. Peja and Chandler will flourish with CP3 IMO. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The other thing is that they're still very young. The only starters with playoff experience will likely be Chander and Peja, and neither of them have had a ton of success, just a lot of disappointment.</div> The Lakers arn't young? Yeah, they have more experience, but we arn't talking about how they are going to do in the playoffs, we are talking about the regular season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">With the Clipps, I don't see how you could have them on the bubble. They're probably going to have the best starting five in the league next year and they're bench should be pretty strong as well. They were also a playoff team last year that didn't lose anything this past offseason. They should and will be there again.</div> Your right about the Clippers, I would probably put them as a 6th or 7th seed. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">With the Lakers, I think they improved more than you may think. They added a solid third scorer in Vladimir Radmanovic, someone who will also give them that lights out shooter they were in dire need of. They also strengthened their bench, allowing them to go very deep. With the addition of Radman, it allows them to move Mihm to the bench. They also added Shammond Williams and rookie Jordan Farmar. Beyond that, they got Maurice Williams from Detroit for nothing, finally giving them a nice backup for Kobe or Radman possibly. In all, they're bench is looking something like this: Chris Mihm Shammond Williams Sasha Vujacic Luke Walton Brian Cook Maurice Evans Ronny Turiaf/Andrew Bynum/Aaron McKie</div> I know they have improved, but New Orleans added way more talent than the Lakers. They brought in Peja (20+ PPG, 6 RPG), Tyson Chandler (8-10 PPG, 8-10 RPG), Bobby Jackson (10+ PPG) and a couple of big men who could help them this year in Cedric Simmons and Hilton Armstrong. All this while they still have Paul and West. I'll take New Orleans' bench over the Lakers, easily. PG - Bobby Jackson SG - Rasual Butler SF - Desmond Mason PF - Cedric Simmons/Hilton Armstrong C - Marc Jackson <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">All in all, they're bench looks pretty good this year. I think Sasha is set to have a breakout year after his very solid performance in the playoffs.</div> Breakout? I see him getting 8/2/2, max, not exactly 'breaking out'. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Maurice Evans will be a great backup for Kobe this year, giving us a nice offensive player and a good defender off the bench.</div> That was a great trade for the Lakers IMO. Evans is underrated and is a solid player. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Farmar might not get minutes early, but once he does, I think he'll be solid for us.</div> I like Farmar too. Infact, I see him getting the starting job after the All-Star break if Smush plays like he did towards the end of last season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Shammond Williams gives us a nice scoring point guard off the bench who can shoot the lights out.</div> Shammond hasn't played in the NBA for a while. He's going to have a tough time adjusting again. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Cook is in a contract year, so there's potential he could do pretty good just so he can get overpaid.</div> He shoots, and that's all. He isn't getting a big contract. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Luke Walton will be solid for us as he always is. He's one of Phil's favorite players so he'll get his minutes. I'd go on, but you get the drift. The Lakers have a good starting five and finally have a good bench, something that'll help out a lot, and I think easily vaulting them into the playoffs. Plus...they have Kobe. That was enough for them to win 47 last year, and he's got more help this year and I think that the other starters will be better this year than last year.</div> I can easily see the Lakers making the playoffs, but it's going to be tough. Sacramento, Houston, New Orleans, LA Lakers, Utah Jazz, Memphis Grizzlies, LA Clippers. Theirs only 4 spots from 5-8. And I see the Kings, Rockets, Clippers, and Hornets making it over the Lakers, Grizzlies, and Jazz.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">I think you've forgotten the dynamic season Chris Paul had. He was a BIG reason why David West averaged 17 PPG. Peja and Chandler will flourish with CP3 IMO.</div>Believe me, I haven't forgotten about him. If they make the playoffs, he will be the big reason, I know this. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I know they have improved, but New Orleans added way more talent than the Lakers. They brought in Peja (20+ PPG, 6 RPG), Tyson Chandler (8-10 PPG, 8-10 RPG), Bobby Jackson (10+ PPG) and a couple of big men who could help them this year in Cedric Simmons and Hilton Armstrong. All this while they still have Paul and West. I'll take New Orleans' bench over the Lakers, easily.</div>The Lakers brought in people that are the equivalent to all of them. Radman is Peja for the half the price essentially. While he's never averaged 20ppg, he still does everything Peja does. If he gets enough touches this year, he can easily average 14-17ppg. Beyond that, Peja hasn't averaged 20ppg for a season since '04-'05. He hasn't played a full season ever. He hasn't played in more than 71 games since '03-'04 either. To say the least, he's not the player he once was, and while I think playing with Paul will help him, I don't see him getting more than 18/5 this year, not with both Paul and West getting 15-17ppg apiece. Shammond Williams is the Lakers equivalent of Bobby Jackson. Neither of them do much but shoot the ball, the only difference is that Williams will stay healthy while BJax will likely miss 12-20 games, and he costs a whole lot more. Tyson Chandler is overpaid. He's not worth his money and you'd have been better off with PJ Brown. If you think he's going to give you a double double, keep dreaming. He doesn't have any offensive skills and most of his points will come off oops or put backs. With Simmons and Armstrong, neither of them are going to be offensive players. That being said, outside of David West, where are you going to get frontcourt scoring? You're not. You could easily have the worst scoring frontcourt in the NBA. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">PG - Bobby Jackson SG - Rasual Butler SF - Desmond Mason PF - Cedric Simmons/Hilton Armstrong C - Marc Jackson</div>The bench is solid, but outside of Mason, it's not very good at scoring. BJax can score, but he has to stay healthy. Plus, with Paul around, his minutes could be pretty limited. Rasual Butler is a nice addition as well, but he's nothing more than a shooter, but he's only average at that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Breakout? I see him getting 8/2/2, max, not exactly 'breaking out'.</div>And considering he won't be the top 6th man, I'll take that. And that's a whole lot better than anything he's ever done so far in his careeer. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Shammond hasn't played in the NBA for a while. He's going to have a tough time adjusting again.</div>I don't think it'll take much time, if any, to adjust. He's been playing overseas for the last two years, so it's not like he's been completely away from the game. Plus, he's not going to have a whole lot to learn that he doesn't know already. He's played in forms of the triangle before, so that helps. Beyond that, he's not running the offense. He's out there to be a shooter. And I think he'll do that just fine without needing much time for adjustment. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He shoots, and that's all. He isn't getting a big contract.</div>He many not get a huge contract, but he'll still get overpaid. And he is a good shooter. He makes things a little easier when he's in, cause the opponents PF has to come out and defend him, giving Kobe and Lamar a wider lane to utilize in getting to the hoop. While he may be nothing more than a shooter, he at least does that well and serves his purpose. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I can easily see the Lakers making the playoffs, but it's going to be tough. Sacramento, Houston, New Orleans, LA Lakers, Utah Jazz, Memphis Grizzlies, LA Clippers. Theirs only 4 spots from 5-8. And I see the Kings, Rockets, Clippers, and Hornets making it over the Lakers, Grizzlies, and Jazz.</div>Houston has to stay healthy. If they don't, they're toast once again. The Grizz will be hurt by the loss of Battier. While it may not show up in the stat sheet, it will hurt a lot more than you may think. The Jazz won't steal a spot from them cause they'll be winning their division while the Nuggets might miss out. I've already talked about New Orleans. And one thing you may seem to neglect is that the Lakers still have the best player in the NBA, and that's Kobe Bryant. His will to win is greater than that of anyone's in the NBA. He wants to win. Last season, he was the reason why the Lakers went to the playoffs. He was a one man show. This season, he has even more help. Odom will be better. Kwame, if he plays the way he did in the end of the year, will be good. Radman gives them that much needed shooter and will be a great 3rd scorer. The bench will be good. All in all, I think they're a lot better than what you think. Oh, and did I mention they have the best coach in the NBA on their sidelines. Phil has never missed the playoffs, why would he start this year? He came to the Lakers to win and get them back to the playoffs, he's going to do it again this year. The Lakers are even better this year, so, if they can make it with an inferior team last year, why can't they make it with a better team this year?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I realize this, however, the thread asked for standings based on record, NOT playoff rankings. But since you guys are all over me for doing what the thread asked, I'll use the playoff rankings now.</div> so it's base on playoff ranking but according to record only right? Then I would put 1. Spurs - they'll be hungry to win a championship. 2. Mavs - still think they'll always be a 2nd best team in the West, behind the Spurs no matter what. Spurs can always turn on their defense when needed, something the Mavs can't. 3. Suns - a 80% Amare is better than half of the PFs in the league. 4. Clippers - they lost Vlad but quickly replaced him with Tim Thomas. They resigned Sam, had an emerging PG in Shawn Livingston; Corey is back 100%, and Brand will always be Mr. Consistent. 5. Rockets - Tmac is back baby! Yao Ming is a big beast in 2nd half of last year's season. They also have acquired Shane Battier, a defensive minded player with a solid offensive skill. 6. Lakers - we're only get better in this year offseason. With an improvement, confident Kwame Brown, an aggressive Odom, a deadly 3 pointer shooter Vlad, and the best player in the NBA, KB24, to rank 6th is being very modest. 7. Kings - although they didn't do much in the free agent market this offseason and on the verse of losing Bonzi Wells but with Ron Artest along with their already core players Mike Bibby, Brad Miller, Shareef Adul Rashim, they should be well rank 7th best in the West. 8. Nuggets - give the credit they deserve. Carmelo is playing better, will be more motivate next season to get better in order to stay close to Lebron and D-Wade. Nene is also back! However with the trouble they're in with their coach and K-Mart, rank 8th seems reasonable. Hornets, Jazz, Memphis won't make it. Hornets took a huge risk in Peja and Jackson, both are injury prone player. Memphis got worser this offseason after losing Shane Battier and Bobby Jackson. Jazz - Carlos Boozer is back but not enough to save the Jazz's another losing season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe4life:</div><div class="quote_post"> 7. Kings - although they didn't do much in the free agent market this offseason and on the verse of losing Bonzi Wells but with Ron Artest along with their already core players Mike Bibby, Brad Miller, Shareef Adul Rashim, they should be well rank 7th best in the West. </div> who?
I'm glad to see that many of you are counting out the Rockets. No sarcasm intended. This puts us in a no lose situation on this board because if we win than people will say that we have gotten better and they underestimated us. They will be shocked, but the downside is that if we don't have a good season then people will say it was expected, but I have high hopes this season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">*runs away crying*</div> that cracked me up
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Gametime?:</div><div class="quote_post">who?</div> okay my bad, it's Shareef Abdur Rahim
Now I think the west is going to be very very tough b/c if tmac & yao can stay healthy I don't expect the rockets to miss the playoffs. Also seattle's horrible record surprised me; I think ray allen is a better leader than that. And I believe the hornets{w/ chandler & peja}, memphis{w/ rudy gay}, and denver {w/ a recharged melo} will all improve!! So here is my surprising standings. 1.DAL 2.HOU 3.SAS 4.PHO 5.LAL or LAC 6.LAC or LAL 7.NOH 8.MEM or DEN
^^I agree. I think the Rockets will exceed expectations and finish 5th or better. 1. DAL 2. PHO 3. SAS 4. HOU 5. LAC 6. SAC 7/8. LAL/MEM/NOH/DEN
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting prash:</div><div class="quote_post">^^I agree. I think the Rockets will exceed expectations and finish 5th or better. 1. DAL 2. PHO 3. SAS 4. HOU 5. LAC 6. SAC 7/8. LAL/MEM/NOH/DEN</div> Record-wise, maybe, but that's an impossible seeding order. Rockets can't get a top 4 seed, finishing 3rd in its division.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe24girl:</div><div class="quote_post">Now I think the west is going to be very very tough b/c if tmac & yao can stay healthy I don't expect the rockets to miss the playoffs. Also seattle's horrible record surprised me; I think ray allen is a better leader than that. And I believe the hornets{w/ chandler & peja}, memphis{w/ rudy gay}, and denver {w/ a recharged melo} will all improve!! So here is my surprising standings. 1.DAL 2.HOU 3.SAS 4.PHO 5.LAL or LAC 6.LAC or LAL 7.NOH 8.MEM or DEN</div>The only way the Rockets come close to being that good is if Yao and TMac stay healthy all year and if Battier plays the best basketball of his career. No way do they finish better than San Antonio and Phoenix though. Beyond that, they're not going to stay healthy all season, as I'm expecting TMac to miss at least 8-10 games this year. They're also pretty thin on the bench, which will hurt a lot as well. And the thing that bothers me a lot about your statement is your mention of Rudy Gay and how Memphis will improve because of him. He's not going to bring anything to them this year, and Memphis will actually be worse because they lost Battier. He was a huge part of that team because of how good his defense was and how good of a leader he is. Gay won't replace that, at least not this year. That team will be on the downhill this year and I think will be missing the playoffs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">The only way the Rockets come close to being that good is if Yao and TMac stay healthy all year and if Battier plays the best basketball of his career. No way do they finish better than San Antonio and Phoenix though. Beyond that, they're not going to stay healthy all season, as I'm expecting TMac to miss at least 8-10 games this year. They're also pretty thin on the bench, which will hurt a lot as well. And the thing that bothers me a lot about your statement is your mention of Rudy Gay and how Memphis will improve because of him. He's not going to bring anything to them this year, and Memphis will actually be worse because they lost Battier. He was a huge part of that team because of how good his defense was and how good of a leader he is. Gay won't replace that, at least not this year. That team will be on the downhill this year and I think will be missing the playoffs.</div> That's what I said, 'if yao and tmac can stay healthy'. And I guess that was pretty stupid of me to say MEM will improve but put them in the 8th spot and they were what in the 5th spot yast yr.?? But while I do agree that rudy gay will definitely not fill the shoes of battier, (I was one of the ones who didnt like that trade for MEM), I do think rudy can have a pretty good rookie yr.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Soft Parade:</div><div class="quote_post">1. Dallas 2. San Antonio 3. Phoenix 4. LA Clippers 5. Denver 6. Sacramento 7. LA Lakers 8. Memphis</div> Where in the world are Rockets? They got a healthy McGrady and a healthy Yao with defensive specialist Battier. Take Sac or Memphis off and put Houston
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">Where in the world are Rockets? They got a healthy McGrady and a healthy Yao with defensive specialist Battier. Take Sac or Memphis off and put Houston</div> why?
1. Phoenix 2. Dallas 3. San Antonio 4. Denver 5. LA Clippers 6. Minnesota (homer) 7. Houston 8. Sacramento
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">Where in the world are Rockets? They got a healthy McGrady and a healthy Yao with defensive specialist Battier. Take Sac or Memphis off and put Houston</div>Sacramento is going to be very good this year, with or without Bonzi. If they have Bonzi, they could make a run at the Pac. Division title for the first time in a few years. If not, they'll still easily make the 6th seed. The team is loaded with talent and I think a full year of Ron Artest will make this team very good.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">Where in the world are Rockets? They got a healthy McGrady and a healthy Yao with defensive specialist Battier. Take Sac or Memphis off and put Houston</div> This is what I`m projecting. If Houston can stay healthy, Houston IMO could be the 6th seed. They just need to stay healthy.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">Sacramento is going to be very good this year, with or without Bonzi. If they have Bonzi, they could make a run at the Pac. Division title for the first time in a few years. If not, they'll still easily make the 6th seed. The team is loaded with talent and I think a full year of Ron Artest will make this team very good.</div> Even if Sac is going to be good this year, Houston won't be that sorry to where Sac would be ahead of them. Sac had talent 2 years ago, and Houston still made it to playoffs ahead of them at 5th seed.
