<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I think Kobe deserved it last season. He did things on the court that none of us had ever seen. Things we thought weren't even possible </div> In that case, Vince Carter should have won the award his rookie season, and in '00 as well. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">One last thing, I don't think Kobe will ever win the MVP award, Seeing how last year 22 of the voters left him off of their ballots completely. He will never be appreciated like he should be. I dont ever think he's gonna get the respect he deserves.</div> Sadly, I agree. I disagree with the respect part...he does get a lot of respect from writers as an individual, but they tend to push Kobe as a villain to the general public, regardless of his actions being good or bad. Hopefully, that will change in due time as well.
If you take what a player did to help his team win, per possession, a multiply that by the number of minutes he played for his team, then you'll get a number which roughly corresponds to his value. This is the basis for 82games.com's Fair Salary Rating. Here were the top ten players last year: <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/><font color=""Navy""> playerTm %minPer_diffOnOffNet RolRtgFair Salary</font><br/>1James CLE85% +17.5 +11.0+15.3 $27.39<br/>2BryantLAL83% +15.8 +12.7+14.8 $26.09<br/>3WadeMIA73% +15.2 +15.8+15.4 $23.64<br/>4Brand LAC78% +15.2 +6.0 +12.1 $21.17<br/>5Garnett MIN75% +14.1 +9.7 +12.6 $20.95<br/>6NowitzkiDAL78% +13.2 +8.5 +11.6 $20.55<br/>7Iverson PHI78% +13.0 +8.6 +11.6 $20.55<br/>8Billups DET74% +12.1 +11.5+11.9 $19.85<br/>9CarterNJN73% +9.9+15.5+11.8 $19.47<br/>10 ReddMIL79% +10.2 +10.8+10.4 $19.31<br/></div>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">If you take what a player did to help his team win, per possession, a multiply that by the number of minutes he played for his team, then you'll get a number which roughly corresponds to his value. This is the basis for 82games.com's Fair Salary Rating. Here were the top ten players last year: <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/><font color=""Navy""> playerTm %minPer_diffOnOffNet RolRtgFair Salary</font><br/>1James CLE85% +17.5 +11.0+15.3 $27.39<br/>2BryantLAL83% +15.8 +12.7+14.8 $26.09<br/>3WadeMIA73% +15.2 +15.8+15.4 $23.64<br/>4Brand LAC78% +15.2 +6.0 +12.1 $21.17<br/>5Garnett MIN75% +14.1 +9.7 +12.6 $20.95<br/>6NowitzkiDAL78% +13.2 +8.5 +11.6 $20.55<br/>7Iverson PHI78% +13.0 +8.6 +11.6 $20.55<br/>8Billups DET74% +12.1 +11.5+11.9 $19.85<br/>9CarterNJN73% +9.9+15.5+11.8 $19.47<br/>10 ReddMIL79% +10.2 +10.8+10.4 $19.31<br/></div></div> 82games.com has very iffy defensive stats though.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">82games.com has very iffy defensive stats though.</div> Almost all defensive stats are pretty iffy. Their Roland Rating takes into account counter-part PER and On/Off difference in team's defensive efficiency. Other than using some really advanced adjusted plus minus defensive stats, I can't think of a better approach for capturing a player's defensive abilities statistically. Hopefully adjusted plus minus numbers will be publicly available at some point. I presume you'd give Kobe an edge over LeBron because you consider his value on the defensive end under-represented in this rating? Ultimately, when we're talking about defensive value, we mean the extent to which a player helps limit the opposing team from scoring. Now, I know just from watching Kobe play that he can be an excellent one-on-one defender. But I question how much value he brings to his team on the defensive side when the Laker's opponent scored so much more per possession while he was in the game. You probably watched many more Lakers games last year than I did. What's your explanation for this? Is it that Phil concsciously rested Kobe only while the opposing team's best offensive players weren't on the floor, and played him while they were? Or maybe Phil put a better defensive team on the floor when Kobe was resting to make up for the lack of offense.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Now, I know just from watching Kobe play that he can be an excellent one-on-one defender. But I question how much value he brings to his team on the defensive side when the Laker's opponent scored so much more per possession while he was in the game. You probably watched many more Lakers games last year than I did. What's your explanation for this? Is it that Phil concsciously rested Kobe only while the opposing team's best offensive players weren't on the floor, and played him while they were? Or maybe Phil put a better defensive team on the floor when Kobe was resting to make up for the lack of offense.</div> You hit the spot. Kobe's defense in all aspects trumps LeBron. Couple that with their similar PER and who Kobe guards, and you arrive at a true conclusion.
Steve Nash or Dirk Nowitzki should have won it. They were on 2 out of the top 4 teams and if you woulda said that both would have been 2 out of the Top 3 teams in the West with all of the problems they had at the beginning of the year, most of us would have laughed at you. Lebron and Kobe had great individual seasons, but their team weren't good enough to win the MVP.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">Steve Nash or Dirk Nowitzki should have won it. They were on 2 out of the top 4 teams and if you woulda said that both would have been 2 out of the Top 3 teams in the West with all of the problems they had at the beginning of the year, most of us would have laughed at you. Lebron and Kobe had great individual seasons, but their team weren't good enough to win the MVP.</div> MVP is an individual award. Not a team award. Did Dirk/Nash do more to help their respective teams win than Kobe/LeBron? I don't know about that. I think they just happened to have much better players around them.
Isn't some rule or something like your team has to have a good record for you to get MVP or something like that? Like you cant have a sucky team and get MVP so doesnt it have a little to do with team?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">Isn't some rule or something like your team has to have a good record for you to get MVP or something like that? Like you cant have a sucky team and get MVP so doesnt it have a little to do with team?</div> Of course not.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting vcwannabe15:</div><div class="quote_post">Last year Nash deserved it hands down. Kobe was good but Nash just dominated. He gor his teammates involved more than anyone else. Without Nash the Suns would probably be worst then the Lakers without Bryant. How valubale is Kobe to his team when they have a losing record. I think the MVP's should be given to players whose teams have atleast 45 wins. For this year I think that Lebron James and Dywane Wade have to be the top runners for MVP. They are both young and have loads of talent. They are both valuble to thier teams and both can score, rebound, pass, and defend. IMO, one of those guys will be the MVP this year.</div> haha what a joke. These statements offer no truth. Lakers without Kobe vs Suns without Nash, I take the Suns (even without Amare). If your criteria for MVP is at least 45 wins, then Kobe barely meets your requirement. Just because Kobe locked your man VC up to the point where he was jealous at Kobe, there is no reason to hate my man Kobe Bryant Last year, most deserving is Kobe and Lebron. Next year, I believe Dirk or Lebron likely win it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">MVP is an individual award. Not a team award. Did Dirk/Nash do more to help their respective teams win than Kobe/LeBron? I don't know about that. I think they just happened to have much better players around them.</div> Nash's supporting cast wasn't that great last year, Marion is a stud but everyone else's offense comes from Nash and/or their system. It's not a rule to give the award to a top team but if you give it to a person from a fringe playoff team then that person probably isn't all the valuable and you'd have guys like T-Mac, KG, VC, and A.I winning all the time because they are/were clearly the best players on their teams even though their teams were only good enough for a low playoff seed. It's just stupid to give the MVP to a great player on a decent team, the award is technically an individual acheivement but since they're the Most Valuable Player to their team, their team should be pretty damn good.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">It's just stupid to give the MVP to a great player on a decent team, the award is technically an individual acheivement but since they're the Most Valuable Player to their team, their team should be pretty damn good.</div> A player's value shouldn't be determined by how good his team is, but rather how much better his team is with him versus without him.
Thats the point i was trying to get out of my tongue. A MVP is how much value the MVP has to his team. Like how he affects his team by making them win.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">Thats the point i was trying to get out of my tongue. A MVP is how much value the MVP has to his team. Like how he affects his team by making them win.</div> Who's the more valuable player: One who can improve his team from winning 45 without him to winning 55 with him? Or one who can improve his team from winning 30 games without him to winning 45 games with him? Is the first player more valuable because his team is better, or would the second player be more valuable because he added more wins to his team?
I would say second because he added more wins. It doesnt matter how many wins someone's team has, but only how many wins a player can get his team by being valuable to it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">I would say second because he added more wins. It doesnt matter how many wins someone's team has, but only how many wins a player can get his team by being valuable to it.</div>If this was the case, Kobe would have been MVP last year. They take the amount of times a team wins into account, that's why you don't see players on losing teams winning this award. Essentially, if you're team isn't top 4 in your conference or doesn't have at least 50, you're not winning the MVP. I think that's about as simple as it gets.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">If this was the case, Kobe would have been MVP last year. </div> Maybe. I think LeBron miight also have a case. Wade I'm less sure of ... but he'd be up there as well.
