<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AMS_ice:</div><div class="quote_post">Kidd is riding Carter's bandwagon?! Now there's a comeback. Kidd doesn't need to jump in anyone's bandwagon. Kidd has brought out the the best in his teammates. He makes players around him better. That's what great players do. As good as Carter may be, he has benefited a lot from Kidd. The Nets lost a step because of injuries to Kidd and Jefferson at the start of last season and even prior to last year. And if Nash really is the better player, how come the Suns hasn't won big? He has the better team than what Kidd had when he led the Nets to back-to-back East titles.</div> I would think more like Kidd benefitted from Carter greatly. The excitement is back on the Nets ONLY because Carter is going all out willing them back to the playoffs, one can clearly see his oft highlight reels, especially him winning the highlight reel champ this past year for his dunk on Alonzo. Nets would be long forgotten without Carter there, and they never really have suffered, after hitting the East conference finals and failing, they were supposed to totally decline and rebuild, but that all changed when Carter reached. Nash is the better player at this moment. I would say at both of their primes, Kidd may have been better, but at this moment Nash is. I dont think Nash has the better team at this moment than Kidd back then. Kerry Kittles was good, Keith Van Horn was really consistent and a clutch performer, Kenyon Martin was amazingly strong and powerful, and Richard Jefferson was very dependable. Nash has Barbosa, who is just decent, not amazing, or else you would hear about him more often. Raja Bell has always been a journey man. Tim Thomas for that short stint was decent. The only player who could be said to be really good was Shawn Marion. But otherwise, Phoenix has been undersized in every category compared to the Nets of the past. Sure, Kidd was really good back then, he was always the first pick of point guard on my list, but now i think Nash is better cuz he's like blossomed or something, at their primes it's tough, but I would probably give it to Kidd overall. ATM tho, i would say Kidd is slowly regressing. As long as Carter is there, they will still reach the same position regardless of Kidd. Carter can make his own space and score without need of Kidd to set him up as well as look flashy in the process. He's done it with the Raptors, he does the same thing with the Nets. If Carter isn't there, the Nets are a bottom feeding team. That was the way it was right before Carter came. I could remember since Raptors were over them in wins at that moment then Nets went into some major win streak, compliment of Vince.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting intrepid1983:</div><div class="quote_post">I would think more like Kidd benefitted from Carter greatly. The excitement is back on the Nets ONLY because Carter is going all out willing them back to the playoffs, one can clearly see his oft highlight reels, especially him winning the highlight reel champ this past year for his dunk on Alonzo. Nets would be long forgotten without Carter there, and they never really have suffered, after hitting the East conference finals and failing, they were supposed to totally decline and rebuild, but that all changed when Carter reached. Nash is the better player at this moment. I would say at both of their primes, Kidd may have been better, but at this moment Nash is. I dont think Nash has the better team at this moment than Kidd back then. Kerry Kittles was good, Keith Van Horn was really consistent and a clutch performer, Kenyon Martin was amazingly strong and powerful, and Richard Jefferson was very dependable. Nash has Barbosa, who is just decent, not amazing, or else you would hear about him more often. Raja Bell has always been a journey man. Tim Thomas for that short stint was decent. The only player who could be said to be really good was Shawn Marion. But otherwise, Phoenix has been undersized in every category compared to the Nets of the past. Sure, Kidd was really good back then, he was always the first pick of point guard on my list, but now i think Nash is better cuz he's like blossomed or something, at their primes it's tough, but I would probably give it to Kidd overall. ATM tho, i would say Kidd is slowly regressing. As long as Carter is there, they will still reach the same position regardless of Kidd. Carter can make his own space and score without need of Kidd to set him up as well as look flashy in the process. He's done it with the Raptors, he does the same thing with the Nets. If Carter isn't there, the Nets are a bottom feeding team. That was the way it was right before Carter came. I could remember since Raptors were over them in wins at that moment then Nets went into some major win streak, compliment of Vince.</div> HA HA HA... Your going with Carter's highlight reels?!! Good one! Who gave the Nets their franchise record of season wins of 52? Carter? NOT! It was Kidd! Who led the Nets to back-to-back East titles? Carter! Wrong again! It was Jason Kidd! Carter is good, but even Carter himself admits that he's better with Jason Kidd around... Nash has a better team than what Kidd had when they won the east. And Vanhorn a clutch performer?! Are you sure you know who Vanhorn is? And Kenyon Martin, as "strong" as he may have been, doesn't mean he had his way in the paint. He got most of his points from fastbreaks or alley-oop passes from Kidd. What Kenyon Martin is today is because of Kidd. And as for Jefferson, he was a rookie during their first run.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting intrepid1983:</div><div class="quote_post">I would think more like Kidd benefitted from Carter greatly.</div> FYI. Kidd will be in the Hall of Fame. With or without Vince Carter.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You horrible miss-spelled "Dwight" and "Dwyane</div> sorry i "horrible" mis-spelled dwight and dwyane. I wasn't really trying to go for proper grammer. And yes that might look like a fantasy roster but isn't that a way to measure a players statistical output? aka their individual abilities? i still say all the players on that list are better than kidd right now. maybe not better careers, or better winning percentages, but better players right now. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kidd can make me score out there. </div> and no even if you had kidd you still probably wouldn't score..
Yeah. But it shouldn't. But someone's trying to move away from the topic because he can't put in any actual facts against Kidd except a lot of his BS comments. Fact is, Jason Kidd is the best "point guard". Fact, Kidd's name is in the top with Magic and Stockton. Fact, Kidd will be in the Hall of Fame.
^^That's all true. If Kidd gets a ring he might even be considered better than Nash by Nash fans. Unless they are too bias.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Carter:</div><div class="quote_post">^^That's all true. If Kidd gets a ring he might even be considered better than Nash by Nash fans. Unless they are too bias.</div> Mostly everyone is biased when it comes to their favorite players. That's just when they have no facts to present. Nash fans won't say Kidd is better because of 1 ring, just like Kidd fans won't say Nash is better because of the two MVPs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Carter:</div><div class="quote_post">^^That's all true. If Kidd gets a ring he might even be considered better than Nash by Nash fans. Unless they are too bias.</div> haha nash fans are too bias, look at ams ice or w/e his name is, if he ever met kidd actually ill stop befor i get banned lol
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kidd:</div><div class="quote_post">Mostly everyone is biased when it comes to their favorite players. That's just when they have no facts to present. Nash fans won't say Kidd is better because of 1 ring, just like Kidd fans won't say Nash is better because of the two MVPs.</div> I think I have presented my facts on Kidd being better than Nash. I'm not being biased or anything, I just call it as it is. I am a Jason Kidd fan but I honestly can't say that he's a better point guard than Magic Johnson. Fact is, Magic has an obvious edge on Kidd. But with Nash, Kidd is better overall. Nash is a great shooter. Kidd is not. I don't think that's biased at all.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AMS_ice:</div><div class="quote_post">HA HA HA... Your going with Carter's highlight reels?!! Good one! Who gave the Nets their franchise record of season wins of 52? Carter? NOT! It was Kidd! Who led the Nets to back-to-back East titles? Carter! Wrong again! It was Jason Kidd! Carter is good, but even Carter himself admits that he's better with Jason Kidd around... Nash has a better team than what Kidd had when they won the east. And Vanhorn a clutch performer?! Are you sure you know who Vanhorn is? And Kenyon Martin, as "strong" as he may have been, doesn't mean he had his way in the paint. He got most of his points from fastbreaks or alley-oop passes from Kidd. What Kenyon Martin is today is because of Kidd. And as for Jefferson, he was a rookie during their first run.</div> Ok yea you're right about the Jason Kidd thing. he's good. The truth is i dislike both Jason Kidd and Steve Nash, but I think at this moment Nash can do more. Overall of course Kidd has accomplished more. But all in all if you want your team to win more, u would need Carter more than Kidd. Kidd is only good when other ppl around him are good. Kidd took Nets to back-to-back eastern titles? Then how come he couldnt do it again when Kenyon left? Carter had to fill in, then they could do something again. Now Kidd makes Carter's life easier, but with struggling, Carter can bring the Nets to the playoffs without Kidd. Without Carter, Kidd cannot bring the Nets to the playoffs, and thats guaranteed. If it isn't evident that all they do is pass the ball to Carter. Defense collapses on Carter, then everyone else can score afterwards. As for the Nash and Kidd debate, you know what, Nash does have the better team. Thats it for that
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kidd is only good when other ppl around him are good. </div> Lol? Do you know who Jason Kidd is? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Then how come he couldnt do it again when Kenyon left?</div> The Nets had lost some of their players and the teams in the East didn't exactly sit around. They get better. Kidd is good, he gets everyone around him better, but he can't do everything. Of course a superior team is going to stomp out the Nets, THEY ARE SUPERIOR. Come on dude. Kidd is good, no doubt, but without atleast decent teamates he isn't going to the ECF again anytime soon. RJ, Kidd, and Carter are good. They are the best trio in the East right now in my opinion, but the team in itself are lacking a lot of things. Kidd can make people better, but he can't make people into superstars. It's the same with Nash. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Carter can bring the Nets to the playoffs without Kidd.</div> Debatable so it isn't worth mentioning nor arguing. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Without Carter, Kidd cannot bring the Nets to the playoffs, and thats guaranteed. </div> What the hell are you talking about? Ever since Kidd came in 01-02 they have been contenders and in the playoffs. Only in 00-01 were they not in the run with a mere 26 wins BEFORE Kidd got there. When he got there he led them to 52 wins. This is just a bull statement. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If it isn't evident that all they do is pass the ball to Carter. Defense collapses on Carter, then everyone else can score afterwards.</div> And without Carter another scorer would step up, even if it meant Kidd.
So your saying that kidd would handle the scoring load if say, carter went down for the entire season with an injury, and they would still make the playoffs? thats ALOT of faith in a 33 year old point gaurd, who never was a scorer anyway. no one on that entire team could step up and fill in carters spot. no carter=no playoffs
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Answer_AI03:</div><div class="quote_post">So your saying that kidd would handle the scoring load if say, carter went down for the entire season with an injury, and they would still make the playoffs? thats ALOT of faith in a 33 year old point gaurd, who never was a scorer anyway. no one on that entire team could step up and fill in carters spot</div> He wouldn't take on all the scoring load. They would go back to when the offense flowed through Kidd. You act as if Carter is the only reason the Nets were in the playoffs these last 2 seasons yet they have been in the playoffs ever since Kidd came to the Nets. In each year of the Kidd era for the Nets they have been SOLID contenders. They made the finals in 01-02 AND 02-03 WITHOUT Carter, in 03-04 they finally lost in the semi-finals vs. the eventual champs (Pistons) and even took them so far as to 7 games with Kidd with an injured knee. Guess what? No Carter. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Answer_AI03:</div><div class="quote_post"> no carter=no playoffs</div> Please learn your history of the Nets before commenting. No Carter does not mean no playoffs. Carter helps but you act as if he is the one who revived this franchise when it's infact Kidd. Carter is a plus, a giant help but in no way shape or form is as great a boost as you people seem to imply. Again the Carter = Playoffs is debatable but even so, they were making the Playoffs without Carter with Kidd being the leading scorer in some seasons season without even breaking 20 ppg. Which is apparently so much seeing as how if Carter's 20+ ppg wasn't there they wouldn't make the playoffs
lol ima put a end to this conversation No Carter = No KIDD!!! what i mean by that was the Kidd wanted out of jersey when martin left, we got Carter all of a sudden he wants to stay, so if we never got vince, kidd would of been on some other team, point blank.
when the nets made the finals and were "solid contenders" the eastern conference was incredibly weak. not to mention they had a completely different team. Im saying THIS YEAR if they did not have carter then they would not make the playoffs THIS YEAR. not 4 years ago or whatever. If there is no carter then there is no reliable scoring option. without carter kidd has no one thats gonna score off his passes. and dont go and say that kidd can make anyone a super scorer, and that carter is great because of kidd because thats definately not true. NO CARTER=NO PLAYOFFS.
RJ and Kidd can make the playoffs without Vince. They also have Krstic. RJ, Kidd, and Krstic could take care of it with the bench that we built this year. They wont be a top team in the East, they will be the 6-8th seed.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Answer_AI03:</div><div class="quote_post">when the nets made the finals and were "solid contenders" the eastern conference was incredibly weak. not to mention they had a completely different team. </div> Enough with the "east was weak". So where was AI and the Sixers? AI is a great scorer and can do much more for a team right? So what happened? And yeah, they had a different team back then. Martin was only in his 2nd season, Jefferson was a rookie and he had Kittles at 2 guard. So the less effective Kidd led them to back to back East tiles. How did that happen? Hmmm...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Answer_AI03:</div><div class="quote_post">when the nets made the finals and were "solid contenders" the eastern conference was incredibly weak. not to mention they had a completely different team. Im saying THIS YEAR if they did not have carter then they would not make the playoffs THIS YEAR. not 4 years ago or whatever. If there is no carter then there is no reliable scoring option. without carter kidd has no one thats gonna score off his passes. and dont go and say that kidd can make anyone a super scorer, and that carter is great because of kidd because thats definately not true. NO CARTER=NO PLAYOFFS.</div> You missed my whole arguement......Good job! <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Answer_AI03:</div><div class="quote_post">without carter kidd has no one thats gonna score off his passes.</div> Carter scores 93.8 ppg!?!?!?! Wow I missed that!
