Welcome everyone to the second bi-weekly Bulls Debate. This week we will have the members ?Umair15? and ?Nakz? joined by "M Two One" and "Carter". This debate will begin once the first reply is submitted and will last approximately 48 hours. If anyone is interested in participating in this game the next time, it comes around please send me a private message. Here are some rules and other things to remember?. 1. Only the people participating should post in this thread after the debate is over there will be a thread for discussion and voting. 2. You can only have a debate if the people involved disagree so please try to take opposing views on the topic. 3. Keep it to clean no personal shots Now down to the question?.. In your opinion what must the Bulls do this season for it to be considered a successful one? What factors will play the biggest part in this happening?
To be succesful this year, I think that the Bulls will need to be good defensively as a team. They are more of an offensive team. Bringing over Ben Wallace was a good move for them. He will bring the defense that they need. Last year, they were succesful, but they still needed some defense. But this year, if they want to make a run for the playoffs they must step there defense up. If Tyrus Thomas and Ben Wallace get enough minutes together, I see this team going as far as possible. Both of them are going to have to play big for the Bulls. Both Tyrus Thomas and Ben Wallace are big time shot-blockers. And both of them will play a big role in Bulls defense. So for them to be succesful this year they will need to step up their defense. Bulls have enough offensive weapons, and I dont think they need to worry about offense as much as defense. So Tyrus Thomas and Ben Wallace will play big parts in making this happen.
With the Bulls aquiring Ben Wallace, thier defense is preety much taken care of. Tyrus Thomas was a great defender in college, but the NBA is much harder and it will take time for Thomas to adjust to the NBA's level. I think what the Bulls have to do this year is to win and have a great season is get thier backcourt to play better defense. The frontcourt is preety much taken care of already with Wallace added to the team. Kirk Hinrich and Ben Gordon may be great offensive weapons but they must step up on defense in order for the Bulls to have a successful season and make it deep into the playoffs. The Bulls have Hinrich as a playmaker, Gordon as an offensive weapon, and Ben Wallace as the enforcer on defense. The Bulls also lack experince. With thier squad being young, they haven't had all matured as players. Gordon and Hinrich are getting older. All they have to do is make it to the payoffs and thier maturity will go up. Having Ben Wallace is great for the Bulls defensivly and as a team leader. Wallace is one of the older players on the Bulls and had alot of experince in the playoffs. He knows what it takes to win and he will be great for the team giving them advice on how to attack when the playoffs come.
I have to shoot down a few details first before I make a move here. First, Ben Wallace was not signed because the Bulls were having any trouble defensively and I'll explain. Both of you forget that Andr?s Nocioni is a defensive minded player and does not lack maturity or experience. Having played for Argentina in multiple events winning a gold medal at one point he has seen a lot of International action. Many would argue that it isn't NBA experience, but what is that really? Just how long you've played in the league with the "better" players? I can't agree with that statement people have dished out because for one fact the United States constantly has trouble defeating International teams. Many of the players that are on some of these teams that have defeated the United States don't even play in the NBA and if they make it there they're hardly given a chance to play, hence why they really never have the chance to shine. This is why Noc is doing so well because he always was a good player and the Bulls have given him the opportunity. Very similar to how San Antonio works so well in bringing in European and South American talents. Noc is adapting to a weaker style of play with consistent foul calls and less aggressiveness. If you've seen some of the play in Europe alone it can really get hectic and sometimes violent. Though for those leagues it is completely natural. That is why Noc is a top notch defender and as soon as he adjusts further to the rules here you can bet he'll be one of the top players of the NBA. The team loves Noc, the Bulls win with what they have and have had because they give equal opportunities to most players. Moving on Kirk Hinrich is a playmaker correct, but he's equally known for his defensive quality and leadership. He's a very intelligent player, one of the top in that category and this gives him the mentality to stand his ground on defense and predict plays. He is a tactician at heart and really steps up when the team needs him. Kirk could be more productive offensively, but he really chooses not to. As quoted by him in a Chicago Tribune interview, "I prefer to help my teammates score first." A lot of people complain about his scoring only I believe it is because they don't know all that much about him. Ben Wallace doesn't bring defense to an offensive Bulls team, he brings top notch defense to a split team that struggled to succeed when Chandler kept getting called for fouls. That is what held up their quality defense and counter attacks. Free throws used to be murder for the Bulls defense nearly because of that reason alone. It was about time they dished Tyson and brought in a player that has leadership and a better mindset. Not to mention a defensive player of the year award winner and former NBA Champion. The Bulls have players that know what it takes to win. They've now tasted the NBA Playoffs twice in a row, last season most likely being their best outcome in the post season giving the current defending NBA Champions the Miami Heat a run for their money. I basically already gave you some of the best factors in helping the Bulls win, and now as to what must be done to consider the upcoming season a successful one? Simple. The Bulls need to play to their strengths by utilizing all of their players including their strong bench. They have a good mix of offensive and defensive players many of which are very good at both ends of the court or just getting better. In order to have this season be considered successful I don't believe that would be winning the NBA Championship. Getting deeper into the NBA Playoffs and building their youth program with a 30 to 40 percent combined increase would be stellar. Winning NBA Championships are exciting no less, but in order for those days to come you must build correctly and let time progress. As the new players become a strong functional unit with their teammates they can progress into building this team as a powerhouse once again. I'm not writing to say that this team can't win the big title at the end of the post season, all I'm getting to is that they need to allow everyone to settle and combine their strengths into a brand new fold. When Skiles and the players have found what works we all will know. Trust me on that.
I'll start off my saying what is considered a "successful season". When it's all said and done at the end of the season, everyone, the organisation, the media, the team is going to look at results to determine their success. With the expectations Ben Wallace brings, nothing less than an Eastern Conference final appearance will be considered successful. WIth that there is no doubt the younger players (Practically the whole team) will gain the experience they need to take us further the following season. What is going to get us to achieve this? Well first of all we need to worry about our offense. With Big Ben, and PJ Brown, most of our perimeter mistakes will be taken care of. However on offense, we have many weapons, but we need to be more consistent in our scoring. Last season Gordon was all over the place in terms of consistency. It wasn't all his fault though, being shifted to and from the starting lineup and random minutes off the bench. Therefore Skiles will need to develop a consistent lineup and stabilize things. Only then can we expect to see great thigns from Gordon. In addition what killed us last season was our inability to get to the free throw line. We have a good free throw team. Of our main players, only Ben Wallace can't consistently hit a free throw. But none of players could get to the line consistently last season. Partial fault to the refs, but sometimes we settle too much for jumpshots. In the playoffs you win by taken good % shots close to the basket. You can't rely on your jumpshot ALL the time in the playoffs. If you look at Game 5 vs Miami I think it was, we settle for too many jumpshots and a lot of them just rimmed out. The NBA rules benefit drivers, slashers, attacking the rim. We need to take advantage of this. This leads me to my next point Thabo Sefolosha. From what I hear, this guy is a high flying slasher and is the best perimeter defender from the draft. We're going to need this guy to come right in and be a lock down defender and drive in and draw fouls. This will open up our jump shooters and also take the defensive pressure off Kirk. M Two One, while I am complaining about Kirk's scoring, it's not for the same reasons as the media. I'm complaining to the fact that at times his jumpshot look tired. Basically because of hte defensive effort he had to put in. Thabo should elimate this. If he can't then we can't expect Kirk to lead us like Nash leads Phoenix. I'm also going to go out a limb here and say Michael Sweetney. We saw how good this guy was straight after the Curry trade that brought him here. If this guy could get into shape we would be even deeper. Let's not forget the Bulls are trying to build a team around a more traditional model as opposed an uptempo team the NBA rules encourage. Mike brings us a low post scorer that could once again open up our jumpshots and could give us a 10pt scorer off the bench. Let's also not forget his commendable effort on Shaq in the playoffs. He had shaq frustrated and in foul trouble. In the playoffs we will no doubt play miami if we make the eastern conference finals. If we let him take shaq again and frustrate shaq. This lets us have Wallace on Haslem and let Wallace do what he does best, help defense.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Carter:</div><div class="quote_post"> I think what the Bulls have to do this year is to win and have a great season is get thier backcourt to play better defense. Kirk Hinrich and Ben Gordon may be great offensive weapons but they must step up on defense in order for the Bulls to have a successful season and make it deep into the playoffs.</div> Kirk has always stepped up his defense, theres no need for him to step it up anymore, especially with Thabo around. Gordon although he to a certain degree needs to step up his defense, you dont want him using too much effort on D and it affects his offensive game. What's more important for Gordon is to play more like a team member. At times he hogs the ball and slows down the tempo of the game and stops flow of movement. Furthermore the addition of Thabo should alleviate pressure off Gordon and Kirk. Also our defense was pretty much No1 last season, with the new additions, it makes our defense even more formidable. So why should we concentrate even more on locking people down at the sacrifice of scoring? At the end of the day great offense will always beat great defense. As far as i'm concerned more emphasis shoudl be placed on offense in this situation. Sure at training camp get our defense sorted out, with rotations, zones etc. But thereafter the offense needs to be built especially to make up for Wallace's shortcomings on the offense end. And you could talk about how the Bulls average 98 ppg, but thats not my problem. It's the <u>way</u> the Bulls scored that 98 that concerns me. Too many jumpshots, not enough slashing, not enough good % shots. Lets use Deng more as a slasher or even a post up player if he can develop as one. Not as a spot up shooter from mid range.
Kirk Hinrich won't be leading the Bulls the way Nash leads up the Phoenix attack. Kirk is not that type of player as he prefers to slow things down most of the time and make decisive play choices before anything else. That is of course, unless they're on a breakaway during a counter attack but surely that doesn't count. The Bulls don't have the type of players Phoenix has to just run up and down the court and score as many points as they possibly can before the end of the game in hopes they'll have the most and win. Wallace came here for a reason. He came here after talks with Paxson and Skiles about how this team wants to play and of course the defensive state of mind from last season in addition was enough to impress the big man into signing aboard in belief of winning another NBA Championship in due time. Wallace knows very well that this team already has the right amount of experience to win in the Playoffs, only they just couldn't seem to piece together the right formula. After some experimenting with lines and dishing out/bringing in new talent you have to believe Paxson has found the right formula he needs to win a Championship. This is a good reason as to why he's been so stingy over who will fill that last roster spot. As I've mentioned before now that Chandler is gone and won't be diminishing the Bulls on the defensive end with constant fouls the team will have a good confidence boost on the offensive end and will be able to create plenty of counter attacks. As you've mentioned Thabo will relieve some of the pressure on Kirk but it doesn't mean he won't work as hard as the previous season on account of his high work ethic. Kirk overworks when he's on the floor and while that can be bad or good at times (exact point his tired jump shot or even the three point shot hesitations) I doubt anyone will really care if someone else is getting the work done. This is a key aspect of their game, not to run the floor but to play defense without allowing too many fouls to be called inside the paint. Then they can counter attack with players likely to be Luol Deng, Kirk Hinrich, and Ben Gordon rushing to meet a long pass. This is an obvious strategy that the management has looked over when they dished out Tyson Chandler and picked up a smart vet in PJ Brown in return. When we look at the current roster and overview how the youth program is turning out during the summer leagues not one can't be impressed with this team at the moment. They have such a strong bench it is impossible to think what else they could possibly fit into the rotation without dishing out a current star or key bench player. When you look at the players I'm about to list, what other improvements can there be? None at the moment actually because we still have to see how well Thomas and Sefalosha fit into the team's chemistry. Kirk Hinrich, Ben Wallace, Ben Gordon, Andr?s Nocioni, Luol Deng, PJ Brown, Chris Duhon, Michael Sweetney, Thabo Sefalosha, and Tyrus Thomas. That alone is a ten man unit and most rosters aren't going to play more than 8 or 9 players on a daily rotation night in and night out unless there are injuries or problems with a certain player's production on the court. That roster right now is enough to take them far if everyone can live up to their potential. Again, we'll have to wait and see; which is the true point of how well the team will perform. Really, if everyone is consistent enough, the team may actually end up being the NBA powerhouse. Wouldn't you agree with that? I expect the team to do well during the season and continue that success going into the Playoffs. I can't argue about taking too many jumpshots because that leads directly into my argument of their past defensive issues as mentioned above. In other words, I've already agreed in my first post.
I do not see many weaknesses on the bulls they remind me alot of the pistons from last year except they are deeper. There team chemisty shouldn't be too much of a concern this year, they have the same core deng noce, ben, kirk thats been together for two years. Going along with that ben should not mess up that chemisty because he is a similar defensive minder player like chandler who is more consistant with minutes. I dont think teams in the east will be able to contend in the bulls except miami and cleveland. Hopefully miami with self destuct with injuries do to the ageing of their ballclub. Cleveland with lebron almost defeated the pistons last year a slow tempo defensive team (a team similar to the bulls)
I didn't mean using Kirk to run fast breaks constantly. I should have made it clearer what I meant. So I will do that now. We need Hinrich to be able to constantly make plays on the offense end. Nash is pretty much always finding the right person to pass too. Now a true point guard doesn't always make assist passes. Sometimes they must pass via someone else who passes to the open person. Thats how I define making the right pass. So the right pass is a pass that is an assist pass or one that may lead to an assist pass. We need Hinrich to be able to do this while always keeping defenses honest with his shot. This is the similarity with respect to Nash that I was talking about. His tired jump shot sometimes let defenders sag slightly when they felt he was tired. This makes it easier for those defenders to help defend everyone else. It clogs up the lane and makes penetration even more difficult. We need to open up the floor for our penetration and then hopefully draw some fouls. I remember Detroit having some nice plays where Rip constantly was able to lob the ball to Wallace for an alley. This is an obvious play we need to implement to get Wallace involved in the offensive end. we all know players play more intense on the defensive end when they are involved offensively. Even if it be just giving them the ball to pass to someone else.
Yes you're right a point guard isn't just for getting the assist, but he is the main player on the court to bring up the ball and set up strategic plays based on his vision of the other team's defensive positioning. This is what sets up multiple passing. Kirk has one of the best tactical brains when it comes to reading the other team's defensive set ups and that is one of the key factors to their success over the past two seasons. Just to point out I never wrote that they need him to distribute to the shooter alone for an assist, but he needs to continue setting up plays and taking it easy on the offensive end by playing mid court at times and allowing other player to move around until someone can get an open shot or in some cases as you've mentioned a nice alley-oop. Distribute the ball to someone like Ben Wallace or even PJ Brown and Tyrus Thomas. There are many options now. The Bulls have plenty of players now that will likely better Tyson Chandler's abilities and become consistent. Of course Tyson wasn't all bad as he brought a lot of intensity, but Thabo has that and Noc already has enough to spare. I don't think anyone on that team right now is more intense then Andr?s Nocioni. I remember watching some local Comcast SN commercials and seen the other players commenting on how they love his intensity and amazing work ethic. I couldn't disagree at all with them. Those are more key factors to this team's success in the past, present, and future. Finally I have to agree with another thing because it is true what you've wrote that the more you have each player on the court involved in the offense, even be it passing around the ball, it gives them a high. Everyone wants to feel important to their team and that's never going to be a problem with this team's morale since Skiles is at the helm and Paxson is pulling the strings. As long as we keep that type of unselfish game play and excellent players on and off the court there is no way this team can't win the NBA championship multiple times. The time is approaching for major success once again.
