<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">In what way would you say Kobe & Odom are better than Tracy & Yao?</div> I wouldn't say it, because it's impossible to prove and irrelevent. My point is, the Rockets look great on paper, but until we can see all their new players succeed together, they shouldn't be ranked ahead of proven teams. Comparing roster to roster the Rockets have more talent than the Lakers. However, having more talent doesn't always equate to being more successful.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">I wouldn't say it, because it's impossible to prove and irrelevent. My point is, the Rockets look great on paper, but until we can see all their new players succeed together, they shouldn't be ranked ahead of proven teams. Comparing roster to roster the Rockets have more talent than the Lakers. However, having more talent doesn't always equate to being more successful.</div> Ok, I pretty much agree. I just don't think the Lakers are any more proven than the Rockets.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">I wouldn't say it, because it's impossible to prove and irrelevent. My point is, the Rockets look great on paper, but until we can see all their new players succeed together, they shouldn't be ranked ahead of proven teams. Comparing roster to roster the Rockets have more talent than the Lakers. However, having more talent doesn't always equate to being more successful.</div> I don't get where you come from saying the lakers are a proven team and the rox are not? you agreed that that last 05-06 season for the rox should be taken out of the equation becuase of the freak injuries. The season prior with t-mac and yao first adjusting playing with each other they still won 51 games, compared to the lakers 45 games last season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brasco:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't get where you come from saying the lakers are a proven team and the rox are not? you agreed that that last 05-06 season for the rox should be taken out of the equation becuase of the freak injuries. The season prior with t-mac and yao first adjusting playing with each other they still won 51 games, compared to the lakers 45 games last season.</div> The Lakers made the playoffs last season and won 11 more games than the prior year. They took the Suns to 7 games in the playoffs, they're a proven product. The Rockets were proven in 2004-05, but let's see what they can do this year before people start overhyping them and placing them in the top 10. You can't clearly say the Rockets are better than Lakers because we haven't seen their new lineup on the court yet. Get it?
Tracy and Yao > Kobe and Odom.....no contest.....Kobe is the best player (without question) in the bunch, but a dominant big man next to Tmac gives them the edge.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">The Lakers made the playoffs last season and won 11 more games than the prior year. They took the Suns to 7 games in the playoffs, they're a proven product. The Rockets were proven in 2004-05, but let's see what they can do this year before people start overhyping them and placing them in the top 10. You can't clearly say the Rockets are better than Lakers because we haven't seen their new lineup on the court yet. Get it?</div> This is the exact same argument people used against the heat last pre-season and they wound up winning the championship. not saying the rockets will win, but just saying its not out of the question to rank a team based on its roster and potential.
I'm going with shape on this, as much as I think the rockets will easily be a top 5 team this year, they could easily not. And since they have so many new faces, it's better to be cautious when ranking them. Just like I think my raps have the potential to scrape 6th or 7th in the east, but I'm not going to go out and say it as a fact, because I haven't seen them play. All in all, the lakers got what they deserved, but I would have put them at sixth in the west. But to the guy who said in his opinion the lakers are #1, is that just an expression to show that the lakers are you're favorite team? Or are you actually being serious that you think the lakers are that good? I hope to god it's not the latter.
Tracy and Yao have yet to prove that they can be a elite duo in the NBA. The unfortunate circumstances from injuries may play a part in this, but it could happen to anyone/any team in the NBA. Fact of the matter is, until the Yao and T-Mac can physically prove that they can handle the 82 game season free from injury, and prove that their hype is not a fluke, then I dont think they belong in the TOP 10. There have been many other teams the past season that have proven on paper and as well as on the court that they deserve to be in the TOP 10 rankings.
Tracy and Yao have proved themselves just as much as the Kobe/Odom duo (as durvasa stated earlier).....both tandems have missed the playoffs one year because of unfortunate injuries and both have made it to the first round only to be knocked out in 7 games.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting THE DREAM:</div><div class="quote_post">Tracy and Yao have proved themselves just as much as the Kobe/Odom duo (as durvasa stated earlier).....both tandems have missed the playoffs one year because of unfortunate injuries and both have made it to the first round only to be knocked out in 7 games.</div> The difference is, the Lakers did it last season, thus they should be ranked ahead of the Rockets and Hornets at this point. The Rocket team who won 51 games two seasons ago is not the same Rocket team for the upcoming season. Sure this year's Rockets might be even better than the 2004-05 team, but until they go out and prove it they should not be ranked ahead of the Lakers.
lol both side have a point, it is hard to decide which team is better until they play on the court. On paper, the Rockets are definitely a better team. If you guys forgot, remembered the Lakers' dream team? With Shaq, Kobe, Gary Payton, and Malone? What happened? we ranked 6th in the west when everyone thought we would break the Bulls 's 72 games winning record. Also, hate to say this but the tandem of Tmac & Yao is better than Kobe & Odom. You never know what Odom going to bring every night but you pretty much know what Tmac and Yao will bring each night. That is the different!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">The difference is, the Lakers did it last season, thus they should be ranked ahead of the Rockets and Hornets at this point. The Rocket team who won 51 games two seasons ago is not the same Rocket team for the upcoming season. Sure this year's Rockets might be even better than the 2004-05 team, but until they go out and prove it they should not be ranked ahead of the Lakers.</div> Precisely. It's not all about who looks better on paper anyway. Who's to say T-Mac is healthy? Nobody has seen him play since recovery so nobody knows if he is on form. However, I do remember the last time I saw him play and he was terrible(obviously due to his injury). Until I see him back again with full fitness I can't put The Rockets up five or six places in the list. As the quote says, "you're only as good as your last fight."
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe4life:</div><div class="quote_post">lol both side have a point, it is hard to decide which team is better until they play on the court. On paper, the Rockets are definitely a better team. If you guys forgot, remembered the Lakers' dream team? With Shaq, Kobe, Gary Payton, and Malone? What happened? we ranked 6th in the west when everyone thought we would break the Bulls 's 72 games winning record.</div>Actually, we finished either first or second that year, winning 57 games. And I'm not sure if you recall, but we had injury issues all season that year. Karl Malone missed essentially half a season. Kobe missed 17 games that season. I think the only starter that played more than games that season was Payton if I remember right. All in all, injuries killed us. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Also, hate to say this but the tandem of Tmac & Yao is better than Kobe & Odom. You never know what Odom going to bring every night but you pretty much know what Tmac and Yao will bring each night. That is the different!</div>I have to disagree here. So far in his NBA career, Yao has not been as consistent as you want to think. Sure, he's put up great numbers, but he'll have a few great games and then a bad one. Beyond that, the big reason why he put up huge numbers at the end of last season is because he was the only option on offense. I fully expect those numbers to decrease with a healthy TMac this season. As for Kobe and Odom, you know what you're getting every night from Kobe. He's going to give it his all and probably have a big game almost every night. With Odom, he is inconsistent. You're right. But when he's on his game, he's one of the best all around players in the league. If he could stay consistent, he could come close to being a 20/10/5 guy. The only other player of his size really capable of that is Kirilenko. I think Odom will finally have that breakout season everyone wants out of him. It'll be his 3rd year with Kobe and 2nd full year under the triangle offense. He showed signs in the playoffs and at the end of last year that he can be consistent, I think this is the year he does it full time.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Tracy and Yao > Kobe and Odom.....no contest.....Kobe is the best player (without question) in the bunch, but a dominant big man next to Tmac gives them the edge.</div> I strongly disagree. I'm sorry but do you really consider Yao Ming a force and a dominant player? Yao has not shown any signs of dominance nor force. He has never won a game nor taken over a game. His carreer high is 38 pts. To give you real statistics: here are his carreer numbers... Pts. 17.5 RBG 8.8 APG 1.3 BPG 1.80 Source: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/yao_ming/index.html?nav=page He doesn't even avarage a double double. I'm sorry but I think Yao is pure hype and overated. If he doesnt average more than 20 pts this coming season he will just be consider an avarage center. My point is that the rankings should not be based on moves made in the offseason because there is no proven factors nor chemistry in the teams. Nor the potential of the players if they were healthy. The rankings should be based on what the team did last year. In that case, Why were the Heat rank #1? They did not make any moves in off season. Answer: becuase they were rank based on last season's performace because they are the defending chapmpions. Based on that I aggree that the Lakers should be ahead of the Rockets. T-mac is injury prone and when a player has back problems those problems will never go away. There is a huge possibility that he will get injure again this season. As of Yao, well he just a waste of height, IMO. Yao = Hype & Overated.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pablo23:</div><div class="quote_post">I strongly disagree. I'm sorry but do you really consider Yao Ming a force and a dominant player? Yao has not shown any signs of dominance nor force. He has never won a game nor taken over a game. His carreer high is 38 pts. To give you real statistics: here are his carreer numbers... Pts. 17.5 RBG 8.8 APG 1.3 BPG 1.80 Source: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/yao_ming/index.html?nav=page He doesn't even avarage a double double. I'm sorry but I think Yao is pure hype and overated. If he doesnt average more than 20 pts this coming season he will just be consider an avarage center.</div>I completely disagree with you here. While I don't necessarily that one duo is better than the other, I disagree with your thoughts on Yao. He had a career year last year and was dominant when he came back from the injury. He was getting something like 24/11 through the last twenty something games. He's far beyond an average center, and for that matter, he's probably the best in the league now that Shaq is on the downside of his career. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">My point is that the rankings should not be based on moves made in the offseason because there is no proven factors nor chemistry in the teams. Nor the potential of the players if they were healthy. The rankings should be based on what the team did last year. In that case, Why were the Heat rank #1? They did not make any moves in off season. Answer: becuase they were rank based on last season's performace because they are the defending chapmpions. Based on that I aggree that the Lakers should be ahead of the Rockets. T-mac is injury prone and when a player has back problems those problems will never go away. There is a huge possibility that he will get injure again this season. As of Yao, well he just a waste of height, IMO. Yao = Hype & Overated.</div>Again, I disagree with pretty much everything you're saying. I think a preseason ranking should partly be based on what they did in the offseason. If a team clearly got better by adding pieces, they should be ranked better because of it. Take the Bulls. By saying what you're saying, you think they should likely be ranked no higher than 14th or so, seeing as how they got knocked out in the first round and only won 41 games. That's not how things work. They're easily a top 10 tean this season with the additions they made in the offseason, maybe even a top 5 team or higher. If you don't take the offseason moves into account, your power rankings aren't going to be worth a damn, especially considering some playoff teams from last year might not even make the playoffs this year. And again with Yao, he's not all hype and he's not completely overrated. He had a career year last year and will be even better this year. Maybe if he doesn't produce the way he's supposed to this year, you can call him overrated, but not at this moment. He was great last season, despite what you want to think, and should be even better this year now that TMac should be healthy and taking some pressure off him. Oh, and about last year, how is 22/10 a bad season? Yao = best center in the league. Period. EDIT: One last note about Yao here, look at the amount of minutes he's playing. He has an 18/9 career average in just 31.5mpg for his career. If he were getting 40mpg, he'd be seeing 23/11 or so on a consistent basis.
I think the Rockets have more talent than the Lakers, but I do have to admit that Phil does manage to get the Lakers build chemistry and make the best out of what he has. I do think that Yao + Tmac > Kobe + Odom, I'll give Kobe a slight edge over Tmac, b/c I don't feel like arguing. Yao is one of the few players in the nba that create mismatches down low, that require double teams. I'm sure that teams have to adjust their defensive scheme some because of Yao. Odom, albeit a talented player and versatile, I think the Lakers could find 10 or so SF/PFs who could give similar impacts as Odom does. Lakers are a very interesting team, their team on paper looks like the 76ers, or worse than the Celtics, yet last year they managed 45 wins.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pablo23:</div><div class="quote_post">I strongly disagree. I'm sorry but do you really consider Yao Ming a force and a dominant player? Yao has not shown any signs of dominance nor force. He has never won a game nor taken over a game. His carreer high is 38 pts. To give you real statistics: here are his carreer numbers... Pts. 17.5 RBG 8.8 APG 1.3 BPG 1.80 Source: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/yao_ming/index.html?nav=page He doesn't even avarage a double double. I'm sorry but I think Yao is pure hype and overated. If he doesnt average more than 20 pts this coming season he will just be consider an avarage center. My point is that the rankings should not be based on moves made in the offseason because there is no proven factors nor chemistry in the teams. Nor the potential of the players if they were healthy. The rankings should be based on what the team did last year. In that case, Why were the Heat rank #1? They did not make any moves in off season. Answer: becuase they were rank based on last season's performace because they are the defending chapmpions. Based on that I aggree that the Lakers should be ahead of the Rockets. T-mac is injury prone and when a player has back problems those problems will never go away. There is a huge possibility that he will get injure again this season. As of Yao, well he just a waste of height, IMO. Yao = Hype & Overated.</div> Yao's played only four seasons and your already basing him on his careeen numbers? imagine if we based kobe on his career numbers from his first four years. Compare yao's first four years to KG's and their eerily simmilar also. and where are you getting that he's never won or taken over a game? you obviously haven't watched him play much. yao's career high is 41 btw
Moo2K4 <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh, and about last year, how is 22/10 a bad season? Yao = best center in the league. Period.</div> I don't think I ever said Yao had a bad season last year. My argument is that Yao being 7'6'' should have average at least 26/12. Yet, even when he was the go to guy for the season (because T-mac was out) he only average 22/10. With his height and supposed potential he should have dominated the NBA last year. The numbers of 22/10 are only average numbers for a center. I agree with you being the best center of the league right now. You know why? Because there is no other centers. Like in the 90's with Olajuwon, Ewing, Shaq, Robinson. And even though Shaq is in his declining days he still better than Yao. I did not take in consideration the Bulls. You're right, they should be in the top ten. But based on their play offs performance from last season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Pablo23:</div><div class="quote_post">Moo2K4 I don't think I ever said Yao had a bad season last year. My argument is that Yao being 7'6'' should have average at least 26/12. Yet, even when he was the go to guy for the season (because T-mac was out) he only average 22/10. With his height and supposed potential he should have dominated the NBA last year. The numbers of 22/10 are only average numbers for a center. I agree with you being the best center of the league right now. You know why? Because there is no other centers. Like in the 90's with Olajuwon, Ewing, Shaq, Robinson. And even though Shaq is in his declining days he still better than Yao.</div>Actually, there are plenty of good centers in this league. To name a few, Shaq is still good despite getting older, Dwight Howard is becoming one of the most dominant bigs in the league, Amare is back and will be a beast again this year, Ben Wallace is arguably the best defensive player of our era at the center position, Chris Kaman is turning into a pretty damn good center in his own right, etc. Bad argument on your part. While they may not be Ewings or Olajuwons, they're still pretty damn good, and some of them, like Dwight and Kaman, are just going to get better and better with the more experience they get. Beyond that, 22/10 are more than average numbers for a center, they're very good numbers for a center. Especially for a center that only played 34mpg. If he were getting 40mpg, he'd be getting 26/12, which is Shaq-esque numbers. The fact of the matter is, the reason his numbers aren't up to par with what Shaq has been able to put up is simply cause he does not get the minutes Shaq did. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I did not take in consideration the Bulls. You're right, they should be in the top ten. But based on their play offs performance from last season.</div>Sorry, but they don't make top 10 without what they did in the offseason. That team was not good enough to win in the playoffs without what they did. Tyson Chandler was not the center they thought he was and the post offense wasn't very good either. Now, while the post offense still won't be too great, they're defense is much improved, and that's completely because of Wallace. Beyond that, PJ Brown gives them a bruiser on the inside and they got deeper on draft day by nabbing Tyrus and Thabo, along with getting Griffin in the offseason. The reason they're a top 5 team is because of what they did in the offseason, otherwise, they'd continue to be a 6-8 seed in the East. Plus, with they're playoffs, I realize they played the Heat tougher than anyone, but they still lost. If they kept the roster the same, they'd have done the same thing this year. The fact of the matter is they needed to improve this offseason, and they did, and that's what you should take into account. If a team improves in the offseason by nabbing a FA or getting a big trade and it makes them better (i.e. the Bulls, Hornets, Rockets etc.), that should be taken into account.
