How many ppl think Nelson is trying to up trade values?

Pietrus as starter?
Dunleavy as starting power forward??
Murphy at center???

If this isn't a numbers booster to start trading those three, I don't know what is.

This isn't a knee jerk reaction to the open practice because I didn't watch it. But I (or we) know this starting roster sucks and probably won't hold water for very long. Why? Because the style of frontcourt play doesn't aid our two strongest assets which is our guards. We need an inside/outside presence and guards don't provide post up on the blocks inside presence the way guys like Brand/Randolph/O'neil/Duncan/Shaq and all these other tough big players with good footwork do. Defensively, we're a sieve especially if playing undersized and neither Jrich or Pietrus can guard the 6'8, 230 lb athletic small forward with gigantic limbs and some footwork.

The Nelson signing was a smokescreen by Mullin to mask the poor job he's done with the front office in the last few years. Nelson is trying to hype these guys up like Dun/Pietrus/Wagner/Murphy getting 20/10 and play them up so we can ship their asses out and make room for Biedrins/Ike/POB and Ellis. I can just see Mullin tap dancing after he fails to deliver on promise after promise...

 

Well if true it's not necessarily a bad thing right? Either we have a winning season or we lose but boost trade values to get rid of our expensive duds.

 

Or tank and get better lottery odds?

I'm just bitter over last season. The practice doesn't matter because it was just practice. The Dunleavy/Murphy thing at power forward and center just ignites the bitterness over problems we have of not having a real center to box out/rebound/score inside and the fact Dunleavy gets chance after chance and he'd still probably continue to suck, just not suck as badly as last season. Add in three guards that can't shoot plus two softies that can't defend and it's a recipe for disaster because we can't score high % points or defend to run the break.

I mean I'm a wait and see type of person as the next guy. But I'm reacting pretty harshly to this experiment from Don Nelson and any sign that it may fail quickly. No matter how irrelevant.

 

No, the truth is the head coach needs to figure out what he has. Now is the time to do it.

But still why suggest all this stuff in the media like he has?

 

Custodian-
I'm just as bitter as the next guy but a couple of seasons ago you told me to take it easy, don't get so down. Now I'm here to tell you the same.
The W's have some of the best fans in the NBA and another new season starts. While I wouldn't <u>expect</u> to get into the playoffs at least with Nelson we might be able to steal a few games and possibly sneak in. We shouldn't get outcoached in many games and would you rather have Nelson or Monty with this roster.
We have an outside shooting PF playing center, a SF playing PF and SG playing SF. I have seen some of the old W's games on TV lately and with Murphy playing outside it should open it up for the Frenchman to drive to the basket. If he continues to shoot the three he should be benched until he stops. It should also open up the middle for the guards to cut to the basket so Baron shouldn't shoot as many three's and JRich should have some amazing dunks.
I understand your concern about the defense and there probably will be a lot of 110-109 games and we as fans should have some fun. Mully's defense was not that good but he had good hands and made steals when the ball was low, hopefully Murphy and Dunn may learn some of that. My concern is Ike's ability to learn the offense and what seems to be poor defense. But I understand that Nelson recognized this and made him strickly a PF. That is what a coach is supposed to do, adapt, which Monty did not do.
If we can wait a year and get the numbers up we might be able to trade some of the large contracts. At least there is some hope and if anyone can slap some sense into Mully it would be his old coach Don Nelson.

 

I am just as bitter as you guys and am trying to be reserved about the Warriors chances this year, but I genuinely believe that Nellie is trying to put the fastest guys out there that can play instead of the best at their position. For instance. We all know Diogue is a better low post player than at least Dunleavy and Murphy, but he may not be able to run the court as well or handle the ball. I just hope that Diogu will out play Dunleavy or Murphy and earn a starting position, then we can get rid of the worse player. I hope everyone succeeds, but I love how Diogu either converts the low post shot or draws a foul and then converts at the line 80%+.

 

Thx guys, it was a bad night last night. I guess sometimes for those that worry, we need to remind each other to take it easy, that it can't get better overnight, and especially during practice and player evaluation.

 

There were times I pondered doing a Fargo on ol' Monty...crank up the woodchipper and get messy---but no. Rerem had to keep the faith a new savior would lead us to glory. Okay...I'll settle for an old savior and Semi-glory

 

Value...trade value...whatever. Improved VALUE is a plus.

Nellie sees that----and it's real important. Monty managed to downgrade the VALUE of half the team. Kind of assured any offseason deals would be us on the short end.

Nellie is setting up goals for Murphy-Dunleavy-Pietrus,is giving them a chance to be more than before. Just the same-he won't be just playing them-he may have a fresh surprise every other week. How fast can Nellie effectively teach new skills and a new style? We shall see pretty soon.

 

I agree that Mullin probably made this move out of desperation, but I don't blame him and I think it's a good fit. I don't think Nelson has any alterior motivations. I think he's too old and detatched from the stress of the game for that. He can always retire and go back to "sipping margaritas by the beach." I really think he's just trying to plug the players in that fit his style of offense, though it isn't hard to see that, defensively, his line-up is about as soft as cream cheese.

But that's Nelson for you.

It's such a drastic shift from what has been, that I think it's unfair to judge it based on the talent we've come to know. Perhaps Dunleavy really hasn't been used to his potential. Perhaps Troy really does belong at the 5 in an up-temo offense. Perhaps Pietrus really can reigin it in and play smart. Nelson obviously has a plan, and I don't think it's to create a smoke-screen to trade these guys. It's going to be a very different game from what we're used to -- but it just might produce more wins.

 

Well, the best way to improve trading value is to make PO. So, if Nelson is taking that approach, I am just fine with it. We get to make PO AND dump overpriced players? Great! Well, enough of dreaming... I don't think Nelson really cares about cleaning Mullin's mess. He is probably too old to think about Warriors and 5 years from now, and he probably believes that Pietrus at SF brings the best chance of winning. It's better to have 6'3", 6"5 and another 6'6" line up than 6'3", 6'3" and 6'5" line up, especially when your 4 and 5 will not stop any kind of offense. And, when you think about Dallas, it's not uncommon for Nelson to start defensive stopper, while using players like Jamison or Walker from the bench...

 

Answering the question.....of course he is! He's one best operators in nba history. So of course he knows all the ropes of working it. Let's all remember he has 15x the experience Mullin has.

Now let's look at Mully's moves...all imho of course

Great Moves

Baron for not much.

Nellie

OK Moves

Fisher - I think it was an ok signing given that we got cap relief for the last (and assumably worst) years of his deal. Fish is what he is....poor guy should have been born 6'6". Would have been perfect for his spot-up skill.

Zarko - Potential scoring machine for nothing.

Biedrins - Shared credit with Saint for potential impact center. I think he will be a big contributor, but the jury is still out.

Monta Ellis - Sweet pick in round 2, but the jury is still out.

Diogu - Post scoring machine, but the jury is still out.

Murphy - Appropriate contract for his skill/perceived trade value.

Bad Moves

Foyle - Utter Disaster. Really, really, really terrible move.

Dun Jr - Looking bad so far, but at least there is a legit chance at redemption on this one. If anyone can max this guy's skills, it's Nels.

flame away friends

 

I'm in favor of maximizing anyone on my roster. Do I later sort them by keepers and trade bait---sure.

 

Comparing whether Mullin did good or bad are like whether we get a good or bad deals on buying flat TV, new laptop or a car. However, those are all irreverent, if we bought those items without thinking about our master budget and maxed out the credit card. Can you imagine your husband/wife arguing whether he/she bought certain items cheap, when you don’t have any money to buy a food because his/her shopping spree? That's the biggest problem Mullin made. Mullin simply committed too much money without thinking about the future, and now it's about to bite us. I mean, how many teams have 15 mils PG, 12 mils SG, 9 mils SF, 10 mils PF and 8.5 mils C? And, none of those contracts would expire within 3 years. Cohan is not a cheap owner, but he does avoid luxury tax. And, those contracts are simply too rich for any team who intends to avoid luxury tax. As we saw in this offseason, Mullin desperately wanted to make moves, but he couldn’t , because we simply have no flexibility to make a move. That’s why we entered a training camp with the same roster minus Fisher. Also, another big problem with Mullin is that he locked up those contracts when he didn’t need to. Dunleavy is no superstar, and we all knew that from the day we drafted him. But, that didn’t stop Mullin from treating him like a superstar and gave him a fat contract, when he didn’t warrant any of those money. Just imagine what would have happened if we didn’t extend Dunleavy after 3rd year. We may have Artest now or signed Dunleavy in half price.

I don’t deny that Mullin made number of good moves. However, his bad moves became such a burdens, it clearly overshadow his good moves…

 

<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Pietrus as starter?
Dunleavy as starting power forward??
Murphy at center???

If this isn't a numbers booster to start trading those three, I don't know what is.

This isn't a knee jerk reaction to the open practice because I didn't watch it. But I (or we) know this starting roster sucks and probably won't hold water for very long. Why? Because the style of frontcourt play doesn't aid our two strongest assets which is our guards. We need an inside/outside presence and guards don't provide post up on the blocks inside presence the way guys like Brand/Randolph/O'neil/Duncan/Shaq and all these other tough big players with good footwork do. Defensively, we're a sieve especially if playing undersized and neither Jrich or Pietrus can guard the 6'8, 230 lb athletic small forward with gigantic limbs and some footwork.

The Nelson signing was a smokescreen by Mullin to mask the poor job he's done with the front office in the last few years. Nelson is trying to hype these guys up like Dun/Pietrus/Wagner/Murphy getting 20/10 and play them up so we can ship their asses out and make room for Biedrins/Ike/POB and Ellis. I can just see Mullin tap dancing after he fails to deliver on promise after promise... </div>

I don't really understand your post, especially the last paragraph. Why does Mullin use Nelson as a smokescreen? If the Warriors don't do well the next couple of seasons, then Mullin gets fired. His job is on the line regardless and he has to take responsibility for his decisions. The team and staff is completely his doing now.

Mainly, why such negativity? Nelson knew the kind of situation he was getting into and thought the Warriors had the players that he could mold to fit his style of play. If any players are likely to be traded under Nellie, it's not the three starting front court. It's guys like Ike or POB.

So far, MP looks like he'll be the one to benefit the most from having Nellie as coach. Second, Dun may very well be in his best starting position as a PF. While it's obvious he is not the prototype PF, Dun is supposed to fill a role under Nelson's run and play D scheme. The one who I question the most is Murphy since he doesn't appear to like playing center. But it will be interesting to see if he can make the adjustment.

 

I think it's simpler than that. Nellie understands that he needs to put talent on the floor that will compliment each other in a system and style. I don't think it has anythig to do with trade value. He understands that perhaps Murphy would be better at the 4 if there was a legit 5 and a dead eye shooter or slasher at the 3, since we have neither, he'll utilize mismatches and get the team scoring. As long as these guys are fit and ready to run, I think wins will come. Look for some 4th quarter wins (if they can learn to shoot free throws better)

 

<div class="quote_poster">jason voorhees Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't really understand your post, especially the last paragraph. Why does Mullin use Nelson as a smokescreen? If the Warriors don't do well the next couple of seasons, then Mullin gets fired. His job is on the line regardless and he has to take responsibility for his decisions. The team and staff is completely his doing now.
</div>

Mullin failed this offseason to do anything of importance like trades or free agent signings, so he hires Nelson as his trump card. That's the smokescreen to mask what a terrible job he's been doing thus far, worse than any bad about Mike Montgomery. His job is on the line regardless, but he's backed himself into a corner because he fired off all his guns without even aiming first back in '04.

<div class="quote_poster">jason voorhees Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
Mainly, why such negativity? Nelson knew the kind of situation he was getting into and thought the Warriors had the players that he could mold to fit his style of play. If any players are likely to be traded under Nellie, it's not the three starting front court. It's guys like Ike or POB.
</div>
And that's why I'm negative. Mullin tried to hire Mike Montgomery who thrives in a motion offense which needs smart, semi talented big men. Instead Mullin f's that up by getting him the worst starting center in the league that can't even catch or shoot, and his backup from Latvia that can't even speak English very well or shoot free throws or hold the post. If we're going to trade some prospects that could do the whole all-around big man game like Ike or POB, this franchise's general management would be sadder than I thought. I'm just tired of Murphy/Dunleavy sharing the court together because we're too slow, too soft, and we're not doing the dribble penetration or post game type fundamentals guys at SF or PF or C should do. I few do that, we'll at least play defense and put a body on guys. We don't even box out the right way.


<div class="quote_poster">jason voorhees Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
So far, MP looks like he'll be the one to benefit the most from having Nellie as coach. Second, Dun may very well be in his best starting position as a PF. While it's obvious he is not the prototype PF, Dun is supposed to fill a role under Nelson's run and play D scheme. The one who I question the most is Murphy since he doesn't appear to like playing center. But it will be interesting to see if he can make the adjustment.</div>

From the last few years, Pietrus and Dun have been scrubs. I don't even know how long they'll both last and their deficiences will cost us. Especially Dun against guys that were stronger than the forwards he guarded and if Pietrus has to guard small forwards, he is cooked as well. Pietrus is only effective if he's guarding other guards like him. The 6'6 lean 215 lb types. Jrich guardnig 6'8, 230 is out of the question. He cannot defend that.

In an all offense system we better have efficient scorers, and we have the least efficient. Also, we need to play some defense to get the stops so we can run the break. I don't think we can play transition D with those two. Those guys will get dunked or let baskets go at insane fg %'s. It is difficult if Murphy has to get the rebounds, and Dunleavy has to box out for everyone, but Murphy will not do the same for Dunleavy when Dun has to get the rebounds. Murphy won't even box out at the foul line. If we're going to have that crap, might as well play Ike at C. At least he'll give us a real inside game unlike the pseudo-post game we'll be getting from our guards.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Mullin failed this offseason to do anything of importance like trades or free agent signings, so he hires Nelson as his trump card. That's the smokescreen to mask what a terrible job he's been doing thus far, worse than any bad about Mike Montgomery. His job is on the line regardless, but he's backed himself into a corner because he fired off all his guns without even aiming first back in '04.</div>


Do you think Nellie is the wrong fit for this team? Regardless of moves or no moves, is there a coach that you would rather have coaching these guys?

 

<div class="quote_poster">CohanHater Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Do you think Nellie is the wrong fit for this team? Regardless of moves or no moves, is there a coach that you would rather have coaching these guys?</div>

You know Nelson is probably the best fit for an incompatible roster, but I don't think the team is any good because Murphy and Dunleavy do not block shots and Dunleavy does not shoot well. If there is a better shotblocker that can also shoot and run the break, then maybe we can win a few more games. I just think we will be flawed as hell and we will not win more games than we lose.

 

<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Mullin failed this offseason to do anything of importance like trades or free agent signings, so he hires Nelson as his trump card. That's the smokescreen to mask what a terrible job he's been doing thus far, worse than any bad about Mike Montgomery. His job is on the line regardless, but he's backed himself into a corner because he fired off all his guns without even aiming first back in '04.</div>

I think you're way off on Mullin. He hired Nelson which is a coup over keeping an NBA flunky like Montgomery. There was no identity and chemistry with his team. He played pick and roll. When that didn't work, he went to small ball and his substitutions were erratic. Monty was in over his head in the NBA. You can say Mullin didn't provide leadership with Monty because Monty and Mullin didn't seem to be on the same page (with Nelson, it's clear they are on the same page). Mullin hasn't been a great GM, but I think Nelson will help him because he knows what he wants. For example, getting Dajuan Wagner was a real coup.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And that's why I'm negative. Mullin tried to hire Mike Montgomery who thrives in a motion offense which needs smart, semi talented big men. Instead Mullin f's that up by getting him the worst starting center in the league that can't even catch or shoot, and his backup from Latvia that can't even speak English very well or shoot free throws or hold the post. If we're going to trade some prospects that could do the whole all-around big man game like Ike or POB, this franchise's general management would be sadder than I thought. I'm just tired of Murphy/Dunleavy sharing the court together because we're too slow, too soft, and we're not doing the dribble penetration or post game type fundamentals guys at SF or PF or C should do. I few do that, we'll at least play defense and put a body on guys. We don't even box out the right way.</div>

I'm not so sure Mullin is the guy who hired Montgomery. He didn't interview anyone else. It sounds like a Cohan move since Mullin and Higgins were prohibited from firing Monty until the second season was done. Monty is a dead issue now and it's boring to keep going back to it.

As for center and power forward positions, we'll have to wait and see. I think Murphy will be the starter until someone comes along who is better. There isn't anyone else on the team who is better than him at center. AB will back him up and Foyle will play against the big men like Shaq and Yao. At PF, Dun is in his best starting position with this team. He will get the ball in his hands more. I think on offense this is okay. It's going to be difficult on the defensive side of the ball. Both Murphy and Dun aren't great defenders and one or both will likely have to sit. Ike won't be the answer on D either as he isn't good enough to take on a man by himself. This will be a big problem imo and cause Nellie and Warriors fans some grief.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">From the last few years, Pietrus and Dun have been scrubs. I don't even know how long they'll both last and their deficiences will cost us. Especially Dun against guys that were stronger than the forwards he guarded and if Pietrus has to guard small forwards, he is cooked as well. Pietrus is only effective if he's guarding other guards like him. The 6'6 lean 215 lb types. Jrich guardnig 6'8, 230 is out of the question. He cannot defend that.

In an all offense system we better have efficient scorers, and we have the least efficient. Also, we need to play some defense to get the stops so we can run the break. I don't think we can play transition D with those two. Those guys will get dunked or let baskets go at insane fg %'s. It is difficult if Murphy has to get the rebounds, and Dunleavy has to box out for everyone, but Murphy will not do the same for Dunleavy when Dun has to get the rebounds. Murphy won't even box out at the foul line. If we're going to have that crap, might as well play Ike at C. At least he'll give us a real inside game unlike the pseudo-post game we'll be getting from our guards.</div>

I'm not so sure you understand Nellie's scheme. It won't be man to man, but zone as well. Both MP and Dun will get help if they are beaten and Nellie's point system will identify the weak areas as well as quantify it. It appears to be the reason why Larry Riley was brought in and Elie let go.