<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">First of all, great points Custodian, and nice job of actually tackling the subject of race in sports in a mature way - not many sports fans, or writers for that matter, can do that. I really wanted to comment in this thread because of their selection of Shannon Brown though. Any one who has read my posts knows that I'm a big SB6 (Shannon Brown) junkie, and I've been hailing this guy as the next player in the Stevie Franchise mold ever since he was in high school (although that was about '01 - a more acurrate comparison with today's game would be Dwyane Wade). However, as much as I love the guy, #4 is too high for one simple reason: he got drafted by the wrong team. On the Cavaliers, now with David Wesley, he's really going to struggle getting playing time at the two guard spot, and his game isn't ready for the point guard position at the NBA level yet. He's a unselfish, a great distributer, and a great decisionmaker, but his ballhandling is erratic and he's turnover prone, so I doubt he ever gets a starting point guard nod with the Cavs. Also, Tyrus Thomas is a horrible selection. He's just raw talent at this point with no direction, and he's in a stacked, veteran Bulls frontline. I'd put Rudy Gay down on the list as well, maybe even #1. With Pau Gasol out, Gay could wind up being the Grizzlies' go-to-guy before long. There's also no doubting that he's one of the two or three most talented players in the class. It's just a question of whether or not he has the desire, and so far he seems pretty motivated to make his mark on the league early on.</div> Yeah, race is always sensitive and that's probably why JBB limits those discussions a great deal. You can't treat it like it doesn't exist, though. I mean I've heard of stuff where it was like, wtf man? But people cannot see that unless they've experienced it or interpreted it the same way. Sometimes people get sensitive and others get insensitive to certain comments/actions which may sound/look disrespectful or ignorant and they may be or may not be. If it is not obvious, then it depends on who is experiencing it. But enough of that, let's talk basketball! Yeah, I agree that Rudy Gay and Tyrus Thomas have a long way to go. They've got the attitude, the hops, but do they have the skills needed to play their positions? I mean they look incredibly attractive as future stars when they are scoring at close range and rebounding, but shooting, ballhandling, consistency are things they need to work on. I just don't think they have enough skills and variety of game to be a factor consistently. And I definitely appreciate a 3-4 year college type of guy like Shannon Brown that is fundamentally sound and highly quick and athletic. The only thing that really bothers me about the guy is not his size, but the guy can be hard to watch when he keeps shooting and shooting and missing. I mean if the shot ain't on, find something else that works or pass the ball. But, I think he was a good pick considering Wesley is getting up there in age and Damon Jones ain't that quick.
I think Tyrus Thomas will learn from Ben Wallace to be more of a defensive PF in the league and hopefully PJ Brown can show him some offensive post moves. Rudy Gay should do really well and I believe that the Grizzlies made a good trade acquiring him and Swift. They needed more big men and got Swift and are going to attempt to replace Battier with Rudy.
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, I agree that Rudy Gay and Tyrus Thomas have a long way to go. They've got the attitude, the hops, but do they have the skills needed to play their positions? I mean they look incredibly attractive as future stars when they are scoring at close range and rebounding, but shooting, ballhandling, consistency are things they need to work on. I just don't think they have enough skills and variety of game to be a factor consistently. And I definitely appreciate a 3-4 year college type of guy like Shannon Brown that is fundamentally sound and highly quick and athletic. The only thing that really bothers me about the guy is not his size, but the guy can be hard to watch when he keeps shooting and shooting and missing. I mean if the shot ain't on, find something else that works or pass the ball. But, I think he was a good pick considering Wesley is getting up there in age and Damon Jones ain't that quick.</div> There's no doubt that Gay has the talent. It's actually more of a question of his attitude. He's shown all the skills you'd want out of an NBA wing, but with his passive attitude, most of the critics are questioning his ability to ever tap into his potential and dominate the offensive end of the floor like he's capable of and has shown he can do in flashes in the past. My point about Gay was actually that he'll be one of the most productive rookies right off the bat though, because he's going to get more touches and playing time than just about every other rookie out there with Pau Gasol down until the All-Star break with an injury and Shane Battier playing for Houston now. As for Shannon Brown, I really don't think he's that shot-happy. In fact, the problem with his role on the Spartans last year was that he didn't get enough shots because most of the plays were designed to get looks for Paul Davis in the post or Maurice Ager out on the wing. Most of the time Brown was the one left with the ball with only a few seconds left on the shotclock after Davis or Ager couldn't get a good look. He still wound up shooting a very high percentage though and wound up being the most reliable scorer on the team despite never being a go-to-guy. If there's one thing I can say about the guy, he's consistent. I think he was an excellent pick for the Cavaliers, an absolute steal, and possibly LeBron's "Pippen," but for right now, he's not in a situation where he'll get a lot of playing time right off the bat but will rather have to earn it behind proven veterans like Larry Hughes, David Wesley, Eric Snow, and Damon Jones. His talent and work ethic will eventually earn him the starting role, maybe even as early as the All-Star break, but he's just not fortunate enough to be in the position that players like Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay are in.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Rudy Gay should do really well and I believe that the Grizzlies made a good trade acquiring him and Swift. They needed more big men and got Swift and are going to attempt to replace Battier with Rudy.</div> I don't really think that the intention of Jerry West in acquiring Rudy Gay was to "replace" Shane Battier. They're players with completely different games, and no matter how offensively proficient Rudy Gay becomes in his career, odds are he'll never be the defensive difference maker that Battier was for the Grizzlies, and that's where the team won their ball games last season. The Rudy Gay trade was, in my opinion, a last ditch effort of Jerry West to revive his fleeting legacy. He has built his whole career up to this point off of the acquisition of Kobe Bryant when he was with Los Angeles, but he has never actually accomplished anything with the Grizzlies. In fact, the whole core of players that has taken the team into the playoffs these past few years was assembled by current Hawks general manager Billy Knight. So with that in mind, I think that West made the trade because Gay is a player who has a high ceiling. He's coined a 'high risk, high reward' player, because there's no doubting his talent, but rather the question is whether or not he'll develop an assertive attitude and the work ethic necessary to reach his full potential. West knows that there's a great chance that Rudy Gay will not amount to anything in the NBA, yet that small chance that he becomes the next great athletic wing in the Kobe Bryant mold was enough for West to take the risk. He knows that Shane Battier, while the heart of the franchise, is not generally even regarded as one of the better players on the team by the fans and the media, and therefore, there wouldn't be much outcry over the trade. He also knows that it's the fans and the media that make or break his career as the Grizzlies' vice president of operations, as the owners are often poorly informed and removed from the team and will usually only respond in knee-jerk fashion to the public's demands, and unless he brings in a player like Rudy Gay, the fans are going to become restless, the ticket sales and merchandising revenue will go down, and he'll lose his job. I really think that the Stromile Swift part of the deal is the biggest head-scratcher. Sure, the Grizzlies need big men, but didn't they just have a nasty break-up with Swift? He's lazy, inconsistent, ectetera - basically all the things that Rudy Gay has the potential to be, except Swift has been in the league for six years now and still hasn't changed his ways. Bringing him back to a situation that he doesn't want to be in likely won't help. He's the type of player that will grow a large fanbase and respect from the casual fans because of his flashy dunks and authoritative shot-blocks, but he's not that beast of a player on a consistent basis, just in sperts, long enough to get his SportsCenter highlight and then take the rest of the game off. The Grizzlies traded away Jason Williams and Bonzi Wells because of their bad attitudes last offseason, and then they turned right around and traded for Stromile Swift this offseason. The team's management just seems confused and lacks direction.
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">There's no doubt that Gay has the talent. It's actually more of a question of his attitude. He's shown all the skills you'd want out of an NBA wing, but with his passive attitude, most of the critics are questioning his ability to ever tap into his potential and dominate the offensive end of the floor like he's capable of and has shown he can do in flashes in the past. My point about Gay was actually that he'll be one of the most productive rookies right off the bat though, because he's going to get more touches and playing time than just about every other rookie out there with Pau Gasol down until the All-Star break with an injury and Shane Battier playing for Houston now. As for Shannon Brown, I really don't think he's that shot-happy. In fact, the problem with his role on the Spartans last year was that he didn't get enough shots because most of the plays were designed to get looks for Paul Davis in the post or Maurice Ager out on the wing. Most of the time Brown was the one left with the ball with only a few seconds left on the shotclock after Davis or Ager couldn't get a good look. He still wound up shooting a very high percentage though and wound up being the most reliable scorer on the team despite never being a go-to-guy. If there's one thing I can say about the guy, he's consistent. I think he was an excellent pick for the Cavaliers, an absolute steal, and possibly LeBron's "Pippen," but for right now, he's not in a situation where he'll get a lot of playing time right off the bat but will rather have to earn it behind proven veterans like Larry Hughes, David Wesley, Eric Snow, and Damon Jones. His talent and work ethic will eventually earn him the starting role, maybe even as early as the All-Star break, but he's just not fortunate enough to be in the position that players like Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay are in.</div> You might be right about Rudy and Shannon. You've probably seen him more times than I have. But I still thought Rudy Gay was a developing wing, unless he plans to be the Grant Hill type with limited shot range and without the ballhandling. If I have a small forward, I'd hope he's 3rd best dribbler on the team and he can score from anywhere, shooting and posting up. I mean this guy has size and athleticism. It would be great if he could use both. Maybe it is a question of approach to the game and aggressiveness, but I think he needs to develop more skills that a swingman would posess and less face-up power forward in his game. He has been labeled a wing forward, but with improved ballhandling and shooting range/consistency, the guy could be a swingman all the way. He's got the passing and smarts for all-around play, but his accuracy on shooting and dribbling could improve. Also, I forgot Larry Hughes was on the Cavs. Man that would be hard for Shannon Brown to get that shooting guard spot. Hopefully Hughes goes down then For some reason I thought Hughes was still a Wizard. Maybe it was because he was injured for most of last season. Man, if the coach wants to play a rookie just have Brown play point, Hughes/Lebron handles the ball most of the time at SG/SF. I think that would be sufficient as long as Brown is veteran in terms of mindset.
Wheres Shelden Williams? He's played well in the pre season, and with Marvin Williams out for 8 weeks, Shelden will be ready to contribute. If he gets the time, he could be a 10 RPGer in his rookie season.
<div class="quote_poster">gocelts34 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wheres Shelden Williams? He's played well in the pre season, and with Marvin Williams out for 8 weeks, Shelden will be ready to contribute. If he gets the time, he could be a 10 RPGer in his rookie season.</div> That' weird, I heard SHelden has played awful this preseason.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You might be right about Rudy and Shannon. You've probably seen him more times than I have. But I still thought Rudy Gay was a developing wing, unless he plans to be the Grant Hill type with limited shot range and without the ballhandling. If I have a small forward, I'd hope he's 3rd best dribbler on the team and he can score from anywhere, shooting and posting up. I mean this guy has size and athleticism. It would be great if he could use both. Maybe it is a question of approach to the game and aggressiveness, but I think he needs to develop more skills that a swingman would posess and less face-up power forward in his game. He has been labeled a wing forward, but with improved ballhandling and shooting range/consistency, the guy could be a swingman all the way. He's got the passing and smarts for all-around play, but his accuracy on shooting and dribbling could improve.</div> Don't get me wrong - neither are fully developed, but each is more developed than the average rookie. I don't think Rudy Gay's range is limited at all. His ball handling is developing, but he's not a liability handling the ball or anything. Picking on his ball handling is just nitpicking. <div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That' weird, I heard SHelden has played awful this preseason.</div> I wouldn't say that he played awful (8.5 ppg, 6.4 rpg). In fact, I kind of agree with the sentiment that he should be in the top ten. Even though he's not the kind of player who'll go out there and lead your team in scoring every night, he is a reliable double-double threat night in and night out. 10 rpg is a stretch, but he'll definitely be a contributer right off the bat.
