<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Actually, Juwan has played great in the little minutes he's got. He's rebounded, defended, and hit his open shots.</div> Actually, you're wrong. The guy is shooting 44% on the season (terrible for a player who doesn't shoot threes or get to the free throw line), and his rebounding is nothing special (decent on the offensive boards, very poor on the defensive boards). He's been continually slow on defensive rotations and been virtually invisible as a help defender. The Rockets as a team have defended poorly with Juwan on the court so far, giving up 113 points per 100 possessions. Other than that,
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Actually, you're wrong. The guy is shooting 44% on the season (terrible for a player who doesn't shoot threes or get to the free throw line), and his rebounding is nothing special (decent on the offensive boards, very poor on the defensive boards). He's been continually slow on defensive rotations and been virtually invisible as a help defender. The Rockets as a team have defended poorly with Juwan on the court so far, giving up 113 points per 100 possessions. Other than that, </div> How long did it take you to conjure up that ridiculous claim. He's played very good defense, and been effective in the little time he's played. Don't believe me, ask the Rockets announcers who praise Howard's play as soon as he steps on the court. They also called him a good rebounder and defender, something that you refuse to acknowledge.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How long did it take you to conjure up that ridiculous claim. He's played very good defense, and been effective in the little time he's played. Don't believe me, ask the Rockets announcers who praise Howard's play as soon as he steps on the court. They also called him a good rebounder and defender, something that you refuse to acknowledge.</div> Are you talking about Bill Worrell, Clyde Drexler, and Matt Bullard? Hardly objective. Are you denying that he's shooting only 44% on the season? Are you denying that his defensive rebounding rate has been very poor? How many charges, blocks, steals has Juwan had on the season (answer: 0)? These aren't "claims", they're facts. And if you're blind to his lackluster help defense, I can't help you. You evidently aren't watching our defense closely enough. There's a reason we give up so many points per possession when he's on the court versus when Chuck Hayes is there (on the season, it's 25% more points per possession, an unbelievable figure). For a second season, all the measurables are pointing to me being right and you being wrong. Did you listen to Jonathan Feigen (Rockets beat writer) on 610am yesterday? He was talking about how opposing NBA scouts were just raving about Chuck Hayes. One of them told him that they consider Chuck to be one of the top defensive PFs in the league. So even in areas that aren't captured by the stats, Hayes has excelled. People who watch the game and understand the game see this.
I know think Chuck Hayes is much better than Juwan Howard. Chuch is one heck of a defender in the post. The guy hustles and jumps for every rebound, he scores easy layups. The guy even went around Shaq and scored. He is amazing. He does the extra work that makes me like him such as the extra effort on the boards. His hustleness is what seperates him from Juwan big time imo.
First of all, sorry to jump in. But I've been keeping up with this discussion and decided to jump in... Neway, Rock4life, in my opinion, you have a twisted logic. One day you would say one thing, one day you would say another. These are two statements I quoted.... - "We can go back and forth with comments from other ppl, I'm going off what I believe not some smuck or stat nerd..." - "huh? Sorry to say it again, but I'm just not interested in this. I analyze the Rockets the way I wanna do it, by watching them every nite..." I thought you don't go off with comments from other people? How come.... - "...Don't believe me, ask the Rockets announcers who praise Howard's play as soon as he steps on the court. They also called him a good rebounder and defender, something that you refuse to acknowledge..." (Your quote again) Anyway, "Did you listen to Jonathan Feigen (Rockets beat writer) on 610am yesterday? He was talking about how opposing NBA scouts were just raving about Chuck Hayes. One of them told him that they consider Chuck to be one of the top defensive PFs in the league..." I believe you also refuse to acknowledge what Chuck Hayes can do for us... Chuck Hayes ftw...
Squall15 I like your posts, but I would like to help you here. Instead of copying and pasting Rock4Life's posts, try that quoting button on the right bottom side of this post. If you click that button it will quote what he said, and you can write your thoughts and opinions under it. Example: <div class="quote_poster">squall15 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">First of all, sorry to jump in. But I've been keeping up with this discussion and decided to jump in... Neway, Rock4life, in my opinion, you have a twisted logic. One day you would say one thing, one day you would say another. These are two statements I quoted.... - "We can go back and forth with comments from other ppl, I'm going off what I believe not some smuck or stat nerd..." - "huh? Sorry to say it again, but I'm just not interested in this. I analyze the Rockets the way I wanna do it, by watching them every nite..." I thought you don't go off with comments from other people? How come.... - "...Don't believe me, ask the Rockets announcers who praise Howard's play as soon as he steps on the court. They also called him a good rebounder and defender, something that you refuse to acknowledge..." (Your quote again) Anyway, "Did you listen to Jonathan Feigen (Rockets beat writer) on 610am yesterday? He was talking about how opposing NBA scouts were just raving about Chuck Hayes. One of them told him that they consider Chuck to be one of the top defensive PFs in the league..." I believe you also refuse to acknowledge what Chuck Hayes can do for us... Chuck Hayes ftw...</div> This is quoting. I clicked on the quote button under your name and wrote this under it.
<div class="quote_poster">TmacGarnett Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well I think Juwan's 0% FG% last night pretty much proved that he isn't better than Chuck Hayes.</div> Pretty soon, Rock4Life is going to be changing his tune. It's JVG's fault Juwan's numbers aren't very good. He isn't using him properly!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">His hustleness is what seperates him from Juwan big time imo.</div> lol. Anyways, I agree with most of what is said in Hayes favour. I expected him to be better, but really didn't think the gap would be this big.
In Juwan's 9 games played, we are now 2-7 with him on the court (i.e. outscored by the opponent in 7 games out of 9). In Chuck's 7 games, we have yet to be outscored by the opponent. A similar pattern emerged last season: Last year, with Juwan on the court, we were outscored in 52 games, and we outscored the opponent in only 27 games. And with Chuck Hayes last season, we were outscored in only 11 games, while outscoring the opponent in 26 games.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">lol. Anyways, I agree with most of what is said in Hayes favour. I expected him to be better, but really didn't think the gap would be this big.</div> Lol, I had to make up a word.
Both players have now played 200 minutes. Stat Comparison Update 11/29 Key <font size="1">TS%: scoring efficiency, proportional to points scored per scoring attempt (league average ~54%) PER: summarizes statistical production, per possession (league average 15) +/-: Rocket's point differential while player was on the court</font> <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/>min MPG PTS REB AST TS% STL BLK TOPFPER +/-<br/>Chuck 215 21.511.012.70.9 56.8% 1.7 0.7 2.0 6.3 14.9+112<br/>Juwan 218 16.76.8 9.8 1.5 38.4% 0.6 0.0 1.5 3.9 7.5 -42<br/></div> Chuck leads the team in +/- (total point differential between teams while he's on the court), while Juwan is worst on the team. Same story as last year. If you think the reason for this is simply that Chuck gets to play in the starting lineup, keep in mind that Juwan's +/- was -25 in the four games he started, including negative in three of the four. Chuck has yet to play a single game this season in which the team has been outscored while he's on the court. Interesting.
This year I noticed Juwan is trying to hustle, but Hayes is too good. He played pretty good D on Garnett, he hustle for every rebound, always went after the ball. Good some nice layups. Chuck hayes really improved. He is only 6'6'' I think and the guy gets all the rebounds. I like the way he husltes and does all the dirty work we need. The only thing I think he needs to work on is his shooting. KG was leaving him open on the free-throw line and he decided to drive in. If he can develop that jumpshot, he will be a great player. Chuck Hayes because of his dirty work and his hustle, I think he is by far better than Howard.
If Howard can knock down that jumper he is missing right now that he used to hit consistently last year. He can make himself comparable to Hayes.
Even if Juwan is hitting that shot at a 45% clip (which is the best he can do), we're still far better defensively with Chuck in there. If that wasn't apparent last year, it should be fairly obvious now.
I don't follow the Rockets, nor do I follow Juwan Howard, but I must say from a strictly objective perspective, it's hard to argue with what durvasa is throwing out. As to the idea of Howard being able to become comparable to Hayes, it's generally a safe bet that a body of Howard's size in its mid thirties isn't going to regain ability it has lost.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Pretty soon, Rock4Life is going to be changing his tune. It's JVG's fault Juwan's numbers aren't very good. He isn't using him properly!</div> Howard has been playin good basketball. Last game i believe he had 8pts & 13rebs. He's been rebounding and defending in limited mins. He's obviously not happy, but he's bein professional about it. Givin consistent mins, he's gonna get it back.
Haha part of me feels like Rock4life has been waiting for a game like this from Juwan to post it. No offense to bring you down or anything, but I really like Chuck Hayes. I do however admire Juwan's professionalism. He is taking this really well.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Howard has been playin good basketball. Last game i believe he had 8pts & 13rebs. He's been rebounding and defending in limited mins. He's obviously not happy, but he's bein professional about it. Givin consistent mins, he's gonna get it back.</div> I thought he played well last game. He's been rebounding better this season than he ever has in his career, particularly on the offensive boards. Hopefully he can get that shooting percentage up. His defense has been mediocre at best -- he's slow on defensive rotations and has trouble closing in on shooters. But that's the reality of an aging body that was never particularly quick to begin with. He does have enough size and discipline to be a good post defender. Anyways, if he can start knocking down shots at a decent clip (I'll even settle for his typical 45% shooting) and continue to rebound as he has been of late, then he should be a solid, productive bench player. But Chuck Hayes has earned his place in the starting lineup for now. It's interesting to note that as well as Juwan played against Cleveland, the point differential was exactly 0 while he was on the court. When Chuck was on the court, we outscored Cleveland by 21 points. Chuck does so many things well that don't show up in a boxscore which I've mentioned ad nauseum in this thread. Things that lead to winning basketball but unfortunately are usually underappreciated.
