LA Lakers @ Golden State Warriors 11/01/2006

Still same warriors thta can't shoot free throws. Our defense is horrible, only postive is Biedrins and thats it

 

Anyone thinking that a starting lineup of:

Andris
Ike
Jrich
Monta
Baron

might have been able to win this one? Murphy and Dun are still garbage on 3 out of 5 nights, and Pietrus will never be a legit NBA starter. I hope Nelson realizes that before it's too late. I give the Lakers props for dominating without Kobe, but we really sucked hard in this one. We can be better than this.

 

We got pwn3d.

 

Wee... Lakers are at the 2nd game of back to back game. They don't have Kobe, Kwame and Jackson. And, we got Richardson back... Dang, it looked all rosy at the beginning...

I am not going to overreact, because this is only one game, but... At this rate, we may have to put Murphy, Dunleavy and Foyle at IL, investing 27 mils on IL...

 

All this hype about Dunleavy breaking out in nelly's systems this year and I never saw a glimpse of it. He barely even touched the ball and was barely involved in the game.

 

HAHA! sorry bad joke but some of warrior fans were saying things like baron gonna tear the lakers up, lakers are beat etc. well we won and you lost so suck it

 

Dun-Dun was getting pushed around by guards tonight. I think Smoosh Parker floored him on a few screens there. Man, Murph and Dun really suck the power out of the "Power Forward" position. Pee-Eew

 

What a disappointment. I know I am repeating this, but the Lakers controlled the tempo and the Warriors just was held in check all game it seemed.

The Warriors are the second youngest team in the NBA after the Hawks. It was evident tonight that this team is young, but more than just young - since these guys are vets - is that whatever system was being run was very stale vs. the what the Lakers were doing. It was easy to see that the Lakers have been running the same system for quite some time. Where as the Warriors, it was just all hectic. I mean people were giving the ball to Andris at mid court for some reason. Then at the end of the game people were giving the ball to POB or Barnes and they would just be stuck there with nobody moving and nothing opening up.

Jason Richardson I think hurt the team tonight. That is not a knock on him, but he seemed to be very far behind on the new system, and since he doesn't have his wheels back it was tough for the team to get too many open court action when he was on the court. The Lakers did well in getting back on defense, they did their homework on this team. But still the Warriors just seemed slow. There were some adjustments trying to be made but nothing seemed to work. The Lakers just out-executed the Warriors.

Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy weren't very visible on the court. Murphy grabbed some boards, but maybe his mask was affecting his offense, especially his free throw shooting which was very poor today.

Everyone else played a decent game, there was just a lack of will to win shown by the Warriors tonight and that was disgusting.

Baron, Monta, Andris, and Diogu played well. But it just never clicked. I liked how quick Pietrus was moving, especially crashing the boards. I liked how Pietrus wasn't settling for three's either. He made a good effort at penetrating. It was just early foul trouble which limited his impact and influence on the game.

Otherwise again, it was just a lot of indecisiveness, confusion and other stuff on the court for the Warriors on offense, and just a slow looking team. I have a problem with Dunleavy, and to a lesser extent Murphy. Those two players are the veterans on the team. Yes they are "young" but the team will only go as far as they decide to play. I didn't see Dunleavy do enough to make things happen.

This team has to show that it wants to win. That means making layups, making free throws, hustling for loose balls, sprinting on potential open court opportunities, learning the system that is going to be used, etc. Nelson is right, if tonight is the true measure of this team, that this team has a lot of room to improve - both in potential and also in where they are as in being far from being strong competitors. They seemed to have come out for another preseason game today, whereas the Lakers knew that this game counted. I hope things progress for the better soon.

 

So much for not chucking threes tonight for you guys. Shot 19, made 3. I do believe I was right about that. And, as projected, the Lakers bigs came up big tonight. Odom dropped in 22, Turiaf led all scorers with 23, and Walton got 15. In general, the Lakers controlled the paint, dropping in 56 points down low. Another thing I'm loving so far is the ball movement. 30 assists last night, 29 tonight. Hopefully we can keep this up. Bynum was a non factor tonight, picking up four fouls and not seeing the court in the second half, also due to how well Turiaf played. I also liked how much we got to the line, but didn't like how many we made. 27/41 is unacceptable and that has got to improve for the Lakers success to continue.

Looking at the box, it looked like the only person who had a halfway decent game was Monta Ellis. JRich and Baron each shot the ball horribly (11/32 combined and 1/9 from the arc). They couldn't keep the Lakers off the board, getting outrebounded 55-46 and giving up 19 offensive boards. Neither team helped themselves at the line, both missing 14 and 15.

 

Arrgh this was a horrible game Biendrens and Ike should have gotten more PT. Dunleavy was a non factor, If Nelly can help him nobody can.

 

wow losing against a kobe-less team. nelson is just like montgomery

 

<div class="quote_poster">HiRez Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The most telling stat for me is 1-13 from 3 point range (at the end of 3 quarters). That's completely counter to the way they played in the preseason, where they shot the 3 rarely and waited for good looks instead of shooting them from desperation. Sad to say but JRich is the worst culprit here at 1-5. I wonder if by not playing in the preseason he didn't really get the message. You're right, CR, looks a lot like last year's Warriors.</div>

We'll see how well the Warriors progress, but right now it looks like the Warriors front office could have saved themselves 10 mil by not buying out Montgomery's contract. Then they could go looking for a good replacement for Mullin when the time is right and then fire Monty when that new GM is in.... oh crap like Rowell or Cohan know the right people to hire. Dammit.

I bet Monty is sitting at home, counting his money which he didn't even have to work that hard for, and then laughing at the Warriors saying, "hey , told you it's not just me you suckers, it's your crappy GM who had a poor vision of the team concept from day 1 and doesn't know the term "center". He built a small ball lineup because of his small ball career with Nelly, hired the wrong coach to perform small ball which was Montgomery (should have let Musselman be GM, Rowell). But it's just one game. I'm glad I picked up Ellis in fantasy ball. The guy is one polished high school baller in terms of shooting guards.

I'm not certain for sure, but I think we could kick more ass if we just put in Ike and Biedrins more and let Ellis play shooting guard because we all know Jrich isn't really that much of a shooting guard role even when healthy. He's a scoring forward. But yet we played Ike, Murphy, Dunleavy, Jrich, Baron. Get those small guards in there that know how to attack if we're doing isos and kickouts and isos and kickouts and rinse and repeat. Dun isn't consistent enough. Murphy is too slow. Jrich has problems not bouncing the ball of his own foot. I'm sure Nelson will realize this and that our pasty frontline won't work unless one of them sits.

What really lost it for us was just same crap as last year. Shot selection, missed layups, and missed free throws. These are fundamentals we lack and if we lack fundamentals, then we can't be an over .500 team.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Clif25 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Jason Richardson I think hurt the team tonight. That is not a knock on him, but he seemed to be very far behind on the new system, and since he doesn't have his wheels back it was tough for the team to get too many open court action when he was on the court.</div>Just a thought, but maybe JRich's bad game was because of his conditioning. He did undergo knee surgery over the summer and probably wasn't very active, so his conditioning is obviously going to need some help. It could be because he's behind in the system, but you also have to realize that he didn't have a lot of time in the offseason because of surgery.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Baron, Monta, Andris, and Diogu played well. But it just never clicked. I liked how quick Pietrus was moving, especially crashing the boards. I liked how Pietrus wasn't settling for three's either. He made a good effort at penetrating. It was just early foul trouble which limited his impact and influence on the game.
</div>While I didn't get to watch the game, but by looking at the box, I wonder how Baron had a good game? 6/19 is awful, and even worse was his 0/4 from the arc. Throw in 3 TOs in there and that's not really that great of a game. But, I guess that's just my opinion.

 

The game was just ugly, the Lakers aren't very good and they had their way with us.

Jason Richardson should NOT have played. Let me repeat that again, Jason Richardson should NOT have played.

Hopefully Nelly is breaking something right now.

 

<div class="quote_poster">HiRez Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Anyone thinking that a starting lineup of:

Andris
Ike
Jrich
Monta
Baron

might have been able to win this one? Murphy and Dun are still garbage on 3 out of 5 nights, and Pietrus will never be a legit NBA starter. I hope Nelson realizes that before it's too late. I give the Lakers props for dominating without Kobe, but we really sucked hard in this one. We can be better than this.</div>If you take Murphy out of your starting five, you lose the only legit double double guy. He's the best rebounder on your team, and he's also a pretty good offensive player. He's got the ability to stretch the defense with his shooting and his post play isn't too bad. The only negative on him is pathetic defense. Even then, starting him is still your best option. Although I will say, Duns shouldn't be starting, especially at the 4. I think Ike should be moved there, that way your interior defense is better and it gives another rebounder (well, someone who has the potential to be a good rebounder at least) on the court.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Warriorsfan Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">wow losing against a kobe-less team. nelson is just like montgomery</div>

Well, it's only one game, but I stand by the peoples' arguments that it wasn't Montgomery's fault the way this team played. He was just the goat because of his Dunleavy-like demeanor and his rookieness. He's an easy target for a wide range of problems the Warriors face that are both simple and complicated.

Now Nelson could very well be the Baron Davis type goat. He's got the fame/the ability, but he might not be able to perform for us because he's in over his head still (He needs consistent team production + key players + inside/outside presence, TEAMPLAY, things we've never had because we're still incomplete on all levels of the franchise thanks to our collection of players).

Now if we wait a few years and the right moves are made, then Nelson and Baron Davis could become much better because Nelson would have the players he likes and Baron Davis would have the players he likes. We still don't have a team that fits because of what Mullin did back in '04. I rule him as incompetent as the president and owner when it comes to basketball. When it comes to making money they are geniuses. They have a product they can dupe fans into every year because of how loyal we fans are. Also some fans are just pretty easily persuaded with a little PR. Thank god they had RUN TMC to milk from or they would have no resemblance of any recent glory. Anyway, if we looked at the other 15 or so teams that didn't make the playoffs last year, it's safe to say they at least made the playoffs once in the last 12 seasons... and those GMs who had perennial playoff teams didn't screw up their salary so badly with incomplete players that don't fit together. They were able to keep a good balanced team together for years and years. That's what you do. Mullin shouldn't worry about team turnover if the guys going out aren't any good. Freakin' Mullin.

And Boogielew can call me out about this, thinking he knows basketball more than me, but the truth is nobody knows basketball as well as all of us hardcore fans of different perspectives put together (this means warrior and non-warrior fans alike... We also might know more basketball if we all happen to be players at one time or in the nba league office and aren't incompetent like some basketball players/front office managers are. So when we're here I can at least acknowledge that Mullin's job as GM/VP Operations is hard, but he's still a bad, incompetent GM that has a poor vision and poor experience for building a team. It's why he built small ball based on his Nelson days, it's why he played favorites with a potential bust like Dunleavy because he's a slow small forward college star, and Mullin totally mismanaged our salary for the next few years so that we can't make good CONSECUTIVE moves because he believed in continuity. Continuity of what? Of suck?

Okay now that I'm done ranting. Let's see how the next few weeks pan out and if there will be a roster shuffle. I'm guessing Dunleavy sits. Ike or Ellis starts. We need threats. Nobody is threatening enough except for Jrich, Ellis, Ike, Baron on isos. And Murphy + Dun can't defend or get inside very well. Fix inside outside game and then we can seem some difference from last year. Nelson must know this. He's no rookie.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If you take Murphy out of your starting five, you lose the only legit double double guy. He's the best rebounder on your team, and he's also a pretty good offensive player. He's got the ability to stretch the defense with his shooting and his post play isn't too bad. The only negative on him is pathetic defense. Even then, starting him is still your best option. Although I will say, Duns shouldn't be starting, especially at the 4. I think Ike should be moved there, that way your interior defense is better and it gives another rebounder (well, someone who has the potential to be a good rebounder at least) on the court.</div>

Murphy has limited offensive ability and that's what prevents him from being a real 16/10 player. He doesn't play anything like a big player should. Now I'm not saying I know everything, but I think we could have saved a lot more money by getting a Matt Bonner or the guy from the Charlotte Bobcats who can play some center and hit some outside shots. Maybe it doesn't pay for starting player consistency, but it sure doesn't force us to start certain players because of salaries.

Now Biedrins could make up a nice 10/10 with high fg% but he is a ft % liability much like Murphy was tonight, only worse. Biedrins also can't shoot that far and he is just young and foul prone.

I just think we need a roster shake-up. If we sure as hell can't hit our free throws, then we need some interior D and some paint presence to score 50% in the paint. Also a better small forward so we can at least slow down guys like Odom, Radmanovic and keep guys like Turiaf out of the paint. Plus kick Jrich out of the shooting guard spot and put another backcourt player in there that can dribble and stay in front. Man I'm not happy that we're going with the same roster because Mullin believed in continuity since '04 year. Continuity only works in our favor if we have trade flexibility because we didn't overpay and also the talent that fits together and can grow over time. I don't think any of these players fit together unless we move the big man rookies up. Then we need to get a capable small forward that can play small forward. Not Dunleayv, not Pietrus.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Just a thought, but maybe JRich's bad game was because of his conditioning. He did undergo knee surgery over the summer and probably wasn't very active, so his conditioning is obviously going to need some help. It could be because he's behind in the system, but you also have to realize that he didn't have a lot of time in the offseason because of surgery.
While I didn't get to watch the game, but by looking at the box, I wonder how Baron had a good game? 6/19 is awful, and even worse was his 0/4 from the arc. Throw in 3 TOs in there and that's not really that great of a game. But, I guess that's just my opinion.</div>

Yes, I understand and realize that Jason didn't have his conditioning. That is why I said he didn't have his wheels back. The first step will be his physical rehabilitation and then getting back into the system. However since I believe people were talking about how the Warriors shot a lot of three pointers, I was kind of blaming(this is too strong of a word actually) that on Jason Richardson who shot 5 of them, the most on the team. It was evident that Jason was playing like he did last year, he was just very stale and rusty physically and with his flow in the game. But the Warriors need Jason to get with the new system, or else he will lead this team to shooting the most(or at least one of the most) three pointers like he did last season. I am willing to give Jason a lot of slack and I don't think this will be a problem trying to get Jason to play a certain system. There will just have to be a longer transition period until it all works out. But, for tonight, he just didn't help the Warriors very much this game. Once he gets going again though, this will be a totally different team.

I suppose Baron played well, that is if you compare him to the other starters. Pietrus was at least active, but was limited due to foul trouble early in the game, Dunleavy was invisible, Murphy got some boards but seemed to be bothered by his mask or something which hurt his offense in particular his FT shooting, and it just wasn't flowing for Jason. Baron worked hard, trying to get the ball inside and getting to the hoop. He got 9 FTA, 6 assists, and 18 points. Sometimes he would put up some shots while the shot clock was running low, but he wasn't so bad with his shot selection at all. I think Baron did well. It's just tough to play when the system is not clicking, the other players are just standing around, there's confusion, and by then the whole opponent's defense is focused on you. Baron didn't play superb like a superstar, but I thought he played well as this team's PG. He looks very good physically as well, and his FT shooting wasn't too bad tonight.

 

<div class="quote_poster">upsidedownside7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The game was just ugly, the Lakers aren't very good and they had their way with us.

Jason Richardson should NOT have played. Let me repeat that again, Jason Richardson should NOT have played.

Hopefully Nelly is breaking something right now.</div>

Dunleavy should not have played either. Pretty much the same goes to the rest of the team. I hate to say it but I still hate all the same players that I hated last year. This discludes Jrich (maybe Baron), Monta Ellis, Ike, (maybe Biedrins - wait a few years), and... Yeah I hate the charmin ultra F/C tandem. It's just not cool to have two guys that can't defend the rim, can't make up for slow foot speed, they can't spread the floor because they are having shooting problems, and they can't make layups or compensate for each other's weaknesses. Bad fit for "inside outside game" theory. I'm sure Nelson will be proactive in changing it since he has more clout than Mullin in the nba. He won't get mocked when it comes to his front office / roster decision-making versus Mullin's. Although Mullin does play a huge part in putting that pressure on Nelson because Pietrus is nearing free agency, Dunleavy and Murphy are somewhat untradeable for a year or two because of either contract length and amount.

It's just one regular game (opening night), but preseason could be to us what it was for the Oakland Raiders. And we're seeing how their season is going... The coach has to be there, but so does the right talent. Hopefully next year that happens when we can start trading some deadweight or some inflated numbers type guys. 10/10 from Murphy doesn't really display the liability he can be. Plus Dunleavy just sucks, why give him so many chances? arggg.. I mean coaches probably love Dunleavy because he could make a great basketball coach someday like his dad, but he's not the player like his dad was. He's just not good or not good that often as Murphy is and he's not that good for what our team needs. They need a nba ready big man soon. Also, we need to get smarter, quicker, more athletic, and more skilled in all the aspects of perimeter play on the outside. Ditto on the inside, but more leaning towards actual skill like boxouts, post d, rebounds, weakside shotblocking, kickout passing, post footwork, etc.

 

I saw this on channel 4. Enjoy

http://cbs5.com/video/?cid=120

There is a commercial though.