Any one else notice that every time Murphy, Biens, Ike, or whoever is setting a high-screen for the guards, they raise both arms up in the air? Okay, why are they doing that? Maybe it's just a mental thing that the coaches have them do to setup for a screen, but it just looks a little awkward. In my experience, keeping your arms down will help you set a solid screen as it keeps you more balanced and also can protect/add support for guys running into your gut.
I actually had a coach who taught us to set screens with our arms in the air. The reason for this was to help avoid getting called for offensive fouls. Players have a habit of extending their forearms while setting screens which is very easy for a ref to catch and blow the whistle. It also makes it hard to throw your hip out which is the most common mistake when setting a pick.
<div class="quote_poster">Rudeezy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I actually had a coach who taught us to set screens with our arms in the air. The reason for this was to help avoid getting called for offensive fouls. Players have a habit of extending their forearms while setting screens which is very easy for a ref to catch and blow the whistle. It also makes it hard to throw your hip out which is the most common mistake when setting a pick.</div> Cool, thanks for clarifying. It makes sense.
<div class="quote_poster">Rudeezy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I actually had a coach who taught us to set screens with our arms in the air. The reason for this was to help avoid getting called for offensive fouls. Players have a habit of extending their forearms while setting screens which is very easy for a ref to catch and blow the whistle. It also makes it hard to throw your hip out which is the most common mistake when setting a pick.</div> I think you are right. I know that the Warriors used to get called for a few moving screens on a regular basis. Maybe this is a tool Nelson is using to help them get away from picking up those types of fouls that could be done without, especially for players like Andris and Ike who already pick up a lot of fouls.
I think it is also because it will give a good target for the passer when the screener rolls towards the hoop.
Wow, you guys are dropping some knowledge. Rudeezy, it totally makes sense that holding one's arms up keeps a player from either throwing out the forearms or hip-checking the player, keeping the offensive foul calls away. Warriorfansnc93, it also makes total sense that after setting the screen, the screener can flash to the basket and already have their hands up ready for the catch and shot. Man I love this message board. You guys rock.
<div class="quote_poster">Warriorfansnc93 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think it is also because it will give a good target for the passer when the screener rolls towards the hoop.</div> This might be true 50% of the time. Most pick-n-roll passes are bounce passes, so the ball would be coming from below, in which case hands in the air don't help.
<div class="quote_poster">Kensaku Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">This might be true 50% of the time. Most pick-n-roll passes are bounce passes, so the ball would be coming from below, in which case hands in the air don't help. </div> Now we are going to get into it. Most of the time, picks are set by big men. You dont throw bounce passed to big men because they are harder to catch. You only throw bounce passes when they are needed really. If you got a guy who is 6'10", you would need to bounce the ball at least 3-4" high just to get it at his waist. Alot of guards make this mistake of throwing bounce passes when straight passes or lobs are more efficient for big men...
<div class="quote_poster">Kensaku Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">This might be true 50% of the time. Most pick-n-roll passes are bounce passes, so the ball would be coming from below, in which case hands in the air don't help. </div> Yeah, this totally depends on the coach or maybe the way the league is calling fouls. I was taught to keep hands at the side not hands up in the air. Hands at the side is good while elbows at the sides is bad since refs can call foul. If hands are clearly at the side, there's no reason to call a foul. Of course, it could hurt more if a big guy can't take the physical contact of a smaller guy running into him accidentally.
<div class="quote_poster">Warriorfansnc93 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Now we are going to get into it. Most of the time, picks are set by big men. You dont throw bounce passed to big men because they are harder to catch. You only throw bounce passes when they are needed really. If you got a guy who is 6'10", you would need to bounce the ball at least 3-4" high just to get it at his waist. Alot of guards make this mistake of throwing bounce passes when straight passes or lobs are more efficient for big men...</div> I'm not a coach, but it seems one doesn't do hands up while setting the actual screen and that's the primary discussion, I think. Some coaches teach it in adjustment to how the game is being called or what certain players tend to do in a contact sport. Hands up over the head could be used as a target to throw over the top for screen and roll, but that's like telegraphing what kind of pass is going to be made. Hands up is right, but not over the head it seems. So it's not wise to do that unless there's an almost certainty that it won't be intercepted by let's say... a short defender. But if Odom, Kirilenko or some other athletic 6'10 guys is lurking in between the passer and receiver. Forget about it. Better to shoot the bounce pass at a point near the defender way below his actual hand reach and hope it gets by or it's a kick ball at least. The ball just has to come up and hit the receiver in a catchable way and that's very hard to do in the paint. Maybe if Murphy is moving away from the basket and has his hands up, then it's obvious why he is doing it that way (to shoot a jumper). But hands up rolling inside doesn't make much sense. A point guard just has to have a reliable catcher that can catch above his head or at least to where his stomach is. But most top point guards seem to fail in those skills contests we have every year. I remember Stephon Marbury kept jacking up the chest pass or the bounce pass, but Nash, Boykins and Kidd killed it every single time. I agree with Rudeezy though. Rudeezy probably knows it because he's played at a higher level than any of us here. Not just college, but pro ball
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Of course, it could hurt more if a big guy can't take the physical contact of a smaller guy running into him accidentally.</div> Which is why most people coach to have you cross your arms in front of you and cover your nuts...
Every time I was taught to set a screen, I crossed my arms over my body, then roll toward the basket with 1 hand up to present a target for the passer. I have NEVER heard of rolling toward the basket to recieve a bounce pass. A bounce pass is a risky pass. How many times have you seen a fast break where someone threw a bounce pass and then it was turned over due to the top spin or something like that. Bounce passes are just fancy IMO. There is not much of a place for a bounce pass unless you are trying to get it under an arm that is raised. Even then it is not the easiest pass. I was always taught to make the easy pass and to not force it. I think sending a bounce pass into the paint to a big man on a pick and roll is probably forcing it a bit...
<div class="quote_poster">Warriorfansnc93 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Every time I was taught to set a screen, I crossed my arms over my body, then roll toward the basket with 1 hand up to present a target for the passer. I have NEVER heard of rolling toward the basket to recieve a bounce pass. A bounce pass is a risky pass. How many times have you seen a fast break where someone threw a bounce pass and then it was turned over due to the top spin or something like that. Bounce passes are just fancy IMO. There is not much of a place for a bounce pass unless you are trying to get it under an arm that is raised. Even then it is not the easiest pass. I was always taught to make the easy pass and to not force it. I think sending a bounce pass into the paint to a big man on a pick and roll is probably forcing it a bit...</div> Are you kidding? Your reasoning here goes against the fundamentals of basketball. A bounce pass is NOT risky because it bypasses the reaching hands of a defender. A bounce pass is not fancy, it's effective and practical. A bounce pass is pretty easy...you just point it toward the floor and make sure the recipient gets it...there's not much to it... I guess if we want to get technical, there are three types of passes: a lob, a bounce pass, and a normal pass that falls somewhere between a bounce and a lob. It is up to the passer to decide what type would be the quickest and least likely to get picked off. A bounce pass is usually a low-risk pass that makes it impossible for a defender to pick it off unless it's just a poor pass in general.
<div class="quote_poster">Warriorfansnc93 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Every time I was taught to set a screen, I crossed my arms over my body, then roll toward the basket with 1 hand up to present a target for the passer. I have NEVER heard of rolling toward the basket to recieve a bounce pass. A bounce pass is a risky pass. How many times have you seen a fast break where someone threw a bounce pass and then it was turned over due to the top spin or something like that. Bounce passes are just fancy IMO. There is not much of a place for a bounce pass unless you are trying to get it under an arm that is raised. Even then it is not the easiest pass. I was always taught to make the easy pass and to not force it. I think sending a bounce pass into the paint to a big man on a pick and roll is probably forcing it a bit...</div> But the "arms/wrists crossed over the crotch area" screen used to be the old way. I was taught that too, but now I heard it's arms at the side. It will hurt, but you don't get called for any perceived foul. Also, you call for the ball using your lead hand on the roll is right, but not both hands up over the head. That's too obvious. That's what I thought you originally meant. Maybe we are having a miscommunication. I've seen small bounce passes off the pick and roll. It's not that uncommon is it? I know some big men don't like those low entry passes because they prefer to have the catch high up. I definitely think Kensaku has a point regardnig bounce passes being used in various occasions. Floor spacing and a defender's reaction time plays a big part in the ability to do that. Rudeezy ought to know
Bounce passes are a great way to get the ball to big men who are in the paint, unless they can't catch it like Foyle. Gets the ball past the defenders and allows the big man to crouch a little so that they have more power as they jump up.
Bounce passes are also usually the hardest to telegraph. Off a pick-n-roll, a bounce or lob are usually the best choices. A bounce pass is quicker, more deceptive, and pretty cool if you can pass it under some guy's legs. Anyway, I think we're talking about screens here.
I pretty much agree with Kensaku. It is almost always smarter to use the bounce pass in a screen and roll than a direct pass. But like almost everything in basketball, you have to read the defense and take with they give you. Usually the only way you can stop a bounce pass is by kicking it.
