ESPN: Kobe Best in NBA

<div class="quote_poster">egyptianlaker32 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Seriously I hate all these people that are saying Lebron and Dwade are better than Kobe they say kobe cant pass and only gets 5 assits Thats pretty good if Kobe only has Lamar while Dwade has antoine walker, shaq, payton, jason williams, posey and lebron has illguaskas damon jones, larry hughes. They have a better supporting cast. If kobe was on either Miami or Clevland he would be getting like 9 assits and his defence Lebron gets crossovered all the time D wade is ok in defence but not comparable to kobe. Kobe is intelligent in passing, scroing, and defence, he can also shoot the three ball (Doesnt he have the most threes in one game) He can dunk, steal the ball, and gets blocks. Just because Kobe is injured right now and Lebron is having a pretty good start doesnt mean that Lebron is better than Kobe. Lebron is good but I think will never be as good as the legend KOBE BRYANT</div>

I'm a Kobe fan but you Kobe-heads are way too in love with the guy. He's a great baller, just leave it at that. Why do you insist that EVERYONE anoint him the best in the league? THere are numerous reasons why people would think Nash, Dwayne, Tim Duncan or even Dirk Nowitzki are a better player than Kobe. here are a few of each, try to read them and gain some PERSPECTIVE:
1) Nash - there are some that believe that you give Nash a Lamar Odom and Kwame Brown and he'll give you a WCF team - he simply gets mediocre players to produce somehow - it's not a fluke.
2) Dwayne - both have rings but Kobe had Shaq in his prime. Dwayne has Shaq in his not-so prime. Plus Dwayne has a better sense of when to look for his own shot and when to get teammates involved.
3) Tim Duncan - also has 3 rings - but with different supporting casts - first David Robinson, then Steve Jackson, then Manu
4) Nowitzki - consistency - when he has a good game, the Mavs usually always win; has improved his game every year; unlike Kobe who sometime has those 40-50 point games that result in a L; smart player who makes the pass to the open guy rather than trying to show-off by taking on 3 guys at a time.....

My own opinion:
Kobe - the best individual player in the league, runner-up: LeBron
Nash - the best team player in the league, runner-up: Tim Duncan

 

<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">^^^there are numerous threads on here which explain my reasoning, so please don't come at me like that.</div>
Do you actually expect me to go through X amount of threads or X amount of posts just to look for the reasons you mention? Give me a break. If you're going to say Wade, Lebron > Kobe, then give a "reasonable" answer. There is a boundary between admitting the truth and there is a boundary between selecting your favorite player as the best. Those who go over the boundary are bias basketball fan. Even I'm a Kobe's fan, I can tell you that he has some weaknesses but those weaknesses don't neccesarily take away his title as the best. The 2 most important aspects in a basketball game are Offense and Defense, add those two up, you'll get a reasonable answer as to who is the best. Until Wade & Lebron prove they can shut an opposing superstars, then I'm afraid i can't give them the title as the best YET! Period!

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm a Kobe fan but you Kobe-heads are way too in love with the guy. He's a great baller, just leave it at that. Why do you insist that EVERYONE anoint him the best in the league? THere are numerous reasons why people would think Nash, Dwayne, Tim Duncan or even Dirk Nowitzki are a better player than Kobe. here are a few of each, try to read them and gain some PERSPECTIVE:
1) Nash - there are some that believe that you give Nash a Lamar Odom and Kwame Brown and he'll give you a WCF team - he simply gets mediocre players to produce somehow - it's not a fluke.</div>
I'm sorry but I feel bad that you're a Lakers' fan. You can't even tell what exactly our strengths and weaknesses as a team. In fact, you don't even understand deeply about Nash's game. I highly doubt Nash would done a better job than Kobe on a Lakers' team. Nash does a great job when his team is a running team, fast-pace system without defense, and a team loaded with shooters. Do you think the Lakers fitting into any of those criterias? The answer is simply NO. Phil is not a fast-pace coach and the Lakers are mediocre shooting team as best. In fact, the Sun's offensive system accounts for 50% of the players' scoring sucess and the other 50% goes to Nash. If Nash really makes a mediocre players to produce more, why didn't he do it with the Mavs? The fact is the player has to have a good base of talent. One thing Nash does a better job than Kobe, and I'm not even arguing, is he gives his teammates easy basket because he is unselfish player and better passer than Kobe.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">2) Dwayne - both have rings but Kobe had Shaq in his prime. Dwayne has Shaq in his not-so prime. Plus Dwayne has a better sense of when to look for his own shot and when to get teammates involved.</div>
The emphasis on that is in Shaq's prime, Kobe had Shaq....the end. Wade arguably has the 2 top centers in the league, Shaq and Zo and 2 ex-all stars with multiple talented players in Jason Williams, James Posey, and Haslem.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">3) Tim Duncan - also has 3 rings - but with different supporting casts - first David Robinson, then Steve Jackson, then Manu</div>
I agree with you on this because when Tim Duncan is healthy, he is the best in the league.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">4) Nowitzki - consistency - when he has a good game, the Mavs usually always win; has improved his game every year; unlike Kobe who sometime has those 40-50 point games that result in a L; smart player who makes the pass to the open guy rather than trying to show-off by taking on 3 guys at a time.....</div>
LOL , 6 words that you should always keep in mind when thinking about Nowitzki, "great offensive player with no defense!". You're giving me an impression that you vote for the best player just base on offense. I want to remind everybody that the GAME OF BASKETBALL IS ABOUT OFFENSE AND DEFENSE!

 

<div class="quote_poster">kobe4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">In fact, you don't even understand deeply about Nash's game. I highly doubt Nash would done a better job than Kobe on a Lakers' team. Nash does a great job when his team is a running team, fast-pace system without defense, and a team loaded with shooters. Do you think the Lakers fitting into any of those criterias? The answer is simply NO. Phil is not a fast-pace coach and the Lakers are mediocre shooting team as best. In fact, the Sun's offensive system accounts for 50% of the players' scoring sucess and the other 50% goes to Nash. If Nash really makes a mediocre players to produce more, why didn't he do it with the Mavs? The fact is the player has to have a good base of talent. One thing Nash does a better job than Kobe, and I'm not even arguing, is he gives his teammates easy basket because he is unselfish player and better passer than Kobe.
</div> 50% Nash and 50% "the system". What system is that? The shoot within 7 seconds system? If it was that simple to get 60 wins, every team in the league would be running those plays - funny how it works with Nash running it where on other teams (Golden State, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Seattle) it doesn't work...... it's true that Phoenix is blessed with quite a few above-average shooters but there are shooters all over this league, and believe me if Phoenix's system was so great, other teams that are struggling would copy them and have copied them to little success. Mike D'Antoni is not an x's and o's genius from what I can tell, so Nash has to get the credit. I think with the Lakers THEIR success is due more to Phil Jackson's system than Mike D'Antoni's "system".

 

It's not really fair to say that Wade and Lebron are better than Kobe. Each one of them are in different situations. Of the three Wade is better off because he has a experianced and seasoned cast around him including the dominant center Shaq, sharp shooters in Antoine Walker and Gary Payton, and good back up. Lebron is in the second best position, Illguaskas is probably the 3rd best center in the Eastern Conference, and he has good back up with Larry Hughes, Donyell Marhsall, and Damon Jones. Lakers have alot of young guys who are not very experianced nor possess the same skill as the support that Wade and Lebron does. EgyptianLaker pretty much nailed it, only way to find out who's "best" is to make one team, and each of the three play with that team and see who makes that team better if that makes sense.

 

<div class="quote_poster">YourNewChef Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's not really fair to say that Wade and Lebron are better than Kobe. Each one of them are in different situations. Of the three Wade is better off because he has a experianced and seasoned cast around him including the dominant center Shaq, sharp shooters in Antoine Walker and Gary Payton, and good back up. Lebron is in the second best position, Illguaskas is probably the 3rd best center in the Eastern Conference, and he has good back up with Larry Hughes, Donyell Marhsall, and Damon Jones. Lakers have alot of young guys who are not very experianced nor possess the same skill as the support that Wade and Lebron does. EgyptianLaker pretty much nailed it, only way to find out who's "best" is to make one team, and each of the three play with that team and see who makes that team better if that makes sense.</div>Yeah, but don't forget Kobe has LAMAR ODOM - when he's on top of his game he is better than:
Ilgauskas
the current Shaq
Antoine Walker
etc....

but you're right after Lamar Odom it gets pretty slim - when Sasha Vujacic and Smush Parker are fighting over the point guard spot - wow....

 

I guess you guys have to hear it all the time. You Laker fans know hes the best, All the SMART analysts know he's the best, Why must you guys trip over every one else saying LBJ's better than Kobe. Get over it.

 

<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">50% Nash and 50% "the system". What system is that? The shoot within 7 seconds system? If it was that simple to get 60 wins, every team in the league would be running those plays - funny how it works with Nash running it where on other teams (Golden State, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Seattle) it doesn't work...... it's true that Phoenix is blessed with quite a few above-average shooters but there are shooters all over this league, and believe me if Phoenix's system was so great, other teams that are struggling would copy them and have copied them to little success. Mike D'Antoni is not an x's and o's genius from what I can tell, so Nash has to get the credit. I think with the Lakers THEIR success is due more to Phil Jackson's system than Mike D'Antoni's "system".</div>
Whah, their system is to run run run. It is as simple as that. The reason team doesn't share the same kind of success as the Suns in term of their running game is because they don't have the right mix of players in their system. The Suns surround guys who can run run run. If you give Nash, Dikembe Mutombo, and tell him "Nash, turns Mutombo into a running machine with you". Do you think he can do it? The matter of fact is Nash's game fits perfectly into D'Antoni's system and players surrounding him fit perfectly. If you put CP3, J-Kidd, Chaussey Billups, guys who can create a running game and can pass, and play in D'Antoni's system, they will have the same impact on the running game as Nash, except Nash shoots better than J-Kidd and CP3. In fact, most teams started to copy D'Antoni's system by going small and run. Only teams with good system like the Lakers, Spurs, Pistons, Heats, Dallas, that aren't influence by the Suns' running game because they know a running team is not a recipe for a championship.

If Nash and Kobe switch team, I doubt Nash will make any different. Here is why. LO is a guy who need the ball to be effective and Nash also a guy who demand the ball to be effective as well. Then you giving Nash, Smush Parker, Sasha, Luke and tell Nash to turn these guys into a 40% 3 point shooters, and guess what? They just can't. It's not their game. In the Sun's system, Nash has James Jone, Raja Bell, Barbosa who are all already a good spot up shooter. Note Nash plays so well with Shawn Marion is because Marion doesn't neccesarily need the ball in his hand to be effective, and LO is exactly the opposite of Marion which is why I don't think Nash's game will mix well with Odom. Also these guys are very talented in their own right, and Nash took the best out of them by passing, but it is not neccesarily he makes them better.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, but don't forget Kobe has LAMAR ODOM - when he's on top of his game he is better than:
Ilgauskas
the current Shaq
Antoine Walker
etc....</div>
We're talking about Odom , one of the most inconsistent player in the league. The guy doesn't have the mentality to be agressive night in and night out. It's just not his game. He's the guy who love to wandering around the 3 points lane and occasionally drive into the paint. The negative aspect in LO's game is when he doesn't score, he doesn't have any impact. Unlike Shaq, his presence on the court alone, already scare alot of players driving into the lane. Ilgauskas, a top 10 center in the league, and an ex-all star. Odom, well, never been an all star and probably will never be. Too many good forward in the West.

 

Kobe:
Has Lamar Odom who is sometimes inconsistent but also a triple-double threat nonetheless. Doesn't really have any other scorers to complement him besides possibly Vlad and Walton.

Wade:
Although he's credited with winning the championships by himself, he didn't get there by himself. Antoine Walker and Jason Williams played a huge role in the Detroit series. Shaq also dominated in the early rounds of the playoffs. Now in the regular season, Shaq still gets around 18/9 and Alonzo is a good backup that gets around 2bpg. Antoine Walker is still good for at least 15ppg and Jason Williams is a good PG along with backup Payton. James Posey is invisible sometimes but is a good shooter.

LeBron
Regardless of talent around him, he's still nasty. Although, he has Larry Hughes as his running mate which Hughes avgs. like 2spg and gets many pts. Also, Big Z might be old but can still get around 16/9. Drew Gooden is a reliable scorer and a good rebounder. The bench is solid for them with Varejo and Damon Jones coming off as well as Donyell Marshall. LeBron doesn't need to score as much as Kobe but still does.

<u>Verdict:</u>

Although Wade and LeBron are terrific athletes, this youngins have nothing on Kobe. Kobe has less talent surrounding him but still gets the job done.

 

<div class="quote_poster">kobe4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Then you giving Nash, Smush Parker, Sasha, Luke and tell Nash to turn these guys into a 40% 3 point shooters, and guess what? They just can't. </div>Sasha, Smush, and Brian Cook are all decent 3-pt shooters, maybe not percentage-wise, but they're definitely more than capable of being 40%ers. Luke not so much. but you make some good points. Vujacic has Peja potential in terms of percentage
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Note Nash plays so well with Shawn Marion is because Marion doesn't neccesarily need the ball in his hand to be effective, and LO is exactly the opposite of Marion which is why I don't think Nash's game will mix well with Odom. </div>very good point - but Marion was there before Nash, it's pretty lucky how that worked out, don't you think? any way, it will be impossible to tell exactly HOW much of Phoenix's success is due to Nash's playmaking and vision and how much has to do with the chemistry of the team itself...that's why it's such a debate.

 

I'm getting really tired of the KOBE IS #1 this, that, blahblbalhbalh

Let's just freakin get over it already. WHo gives a damn.

 

Kobe is very good.....thats true




but he's not a legend, and he's not the undisputed best...no matter how many times you say "its the truth"


sorry

 

he's not a legend??

he is a LIVING legend.

What the hell are you smoking? Whatever it is, I don't want it

 

<div class="quote_poster">02civic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe is very good.....thats true




but he's not a legend, and he's not the undisputed best...no matter how many times you say "its the truth"


sorry</div>
I think even a Kobe-hater has to admit that he's a legend based on 81 points alone....never mind all the first-team selections, 3 rings, and amazing plays.
81 is 81 ....and that's without steroids

 

Playing the Sam Mitchell-coached Toronto Raptors should be considered a performance enhancer.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Playing the Sam Mitchell-coached Toronto Raptors should be considered a performance enhancer.</div>

LeBron might get 40 on them, Wade might get 50, Carmelo might get 40, but none of these players will ever get 81pts though. That's the difference between them. It doesn't matter that it was against Toronto. What does that have to do with it?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting illmatic:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm getting really tired of the KOBE IS #1 this, that, blahblbalhbalh

Let's just freakin get over it already. WHo gives a damn.</div>

What makes you say this? Who do you think is better?

 

<div class="quote_poster">CLos Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">LeBron might get 40 on them, Wade might get 50, Carmelo might get 40, but none of these players will ever get 81pts though. That's the difference between them. It doesn't matter that it was against Toronto. What does that have to do with it?



What makes you say this? Who do you think is better?</div>

no one, that's the thing. It's the main topic of discussion every single day and it's been debated ad nauseum.

I'm a huuuuge Kobe fan, huuuge Laker fan.

If someone disses Kobe, I take it personal like you just dissed my mom or something.

But it's like, damn, enough already. Like Shape said, let's just enjoy Kobe, LBJ, and Wade play and we can debate later.

 

<div class="quote_poster">CLos Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">LeBron might get 40 on them, Wade might get 50, Carmelo might get 40, but none of these players will ever get 81pts though. That's the difference between them. It doesn't matter that it was against Toronto. What does that have to do with it?
</div>

I'm sure if Lebron, Wade or Melo took over 46-50 shots while being on good form they could certainly get close to that amount. If they did try and score that many they would hurt their team so they likely never will even try to get that many. To think players of that level couldn't score 80 is not correct.

Honestly Kobe is GREAT but he has never been the best player in the NBA in past seasons so why should he be ranked first now?

 

Should LeBron be ranked first? Sure his avgs. are amazing, but what makes him first? I mean other players are capable of his stats.