I forget what the matchups were. Did Redd move to SF and did they put in Bell/Mo. Williams/Blake at the same time? I know that Reuben Patterson was a difficult matchup. That guy is tough defensively, he scores high% from up close and he rebounds. That must be tough for our "forwards". Also, who was guarding Bell? Damn. With how many 3 pointers he took, we must have played Zone. I hate zone defense! The only reason we play it is because we suck defensively. Maybe worse than Milwauke or Toronto sometimes.
The FT difference is killer. For the whole season the Warriors are far behind the opponent in this stat, especially over the last couple of games. 284-417 vs. 322-426. I am wondering what the going price for Corey Maggette is. He is so good at getting to the line and making FT's. He has such a high percentage and gets to the line at will. He would go great with thie current team and backcourt. Part of me wants to deal Jason Richardson for Maggette. But who knows? maybe this is premature.
With JRich's knee right now, we'd get poor value in return. It's better to trade a guy when they're at their peak (see the sign-n-trade of Dampier, lol) rather than when they're under the radar (see the steal of Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton)
yep that is the key stat. Outrebounded. Our guards have crashed the boards in our wins. Didnt see that tonight at all.
<div class="quote_poster">AlleyOop Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">With JRich's knee right now, we'd get poor value in return. It's better to trade a guy when they're at their peak (see the sign-n-trade of Dampier, lol) rather than when they're under the radar (see the steal of Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton)</div> Would you consider Jason Richardson for Corey Maggette and a filler like Rebraca to be too low? Do you think the Warriors could get a first round pick if Jason's value (honestly I do not have a clue of where his value might be to NBA GM's at this point) were higher? The theory of waiting for a player to gain more value to trade him is interesting. The question is that maybe the team will then reconsider things when the player gets hot and then decide to keep the player, then there will be no deal. Then the streak ends and we are at the same spot again. I think to some extent this is what happens and will happen with Mickael Pietrus (especially since he is prone to fouls and injury and moreso because he is in the last year of his contract). It's a tough decision to know when to deal him. Mostly because he brings some things that the team needs such as perimeter defense, athleticism, and outside shooting. Maybe both Maggette and Richardson are low in their potential value which could offset that theory. But like I said maybe this whole dealing Richardson is premature. But I know that Custodian2 would love to see Maggette at the foul line for the Warriors. And I would too. But we will see how things turn out in a couple of months I suppose. -- Yes I realize this should probably be in a different thread... Yeah just add some more rebounds and some FT's to what the Warriors are doing now, and there would be a few more wins. But hey, what a fun season and exciting one at that. It's tough to complain too much. These guys are working hard and making some great progress. This team can manage to do anything when the time comes I think. There is lots of good talent on the team. Maybe some dealing of some talent players for other talent players may be an answer to push the team over the hump into the playoffs but we will find out sooner or later - maybe.
<div class="quote_poster">Clif25 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The FT difference is killer. For the whole season the Warriors are far behind the opponent in this stat, especially over the last couple of games. 284-417 vs. 322-426. I am wondering what the going price for Corey Maggette is. He is so good at getting to the line and making FT's. He has such a high percentage and gets to the line at will. He would go great with thie current team and backcourt. Part of me wants to deal Jason Richardson for Maggette. But who knows? maybe this is premature.</div> It's wasn't missing the free throws that did us in tonight. Tonight the Warriors shot well enough to win from the field and free throw line, but as your stats bear out the Bucks got to the line more than the Warriors. Also, they outrebounded us on the boards. That shouldn't happen with a team like the Bucks. Here's a surprising stat. The Warriors lead the league in FG %age and are ranked top 3 in scoring. They have a +3.2 differential against their opponents. However, they are last in the league in free throw percentage and in the bottom third getting to the line and rebounding. The Bucks are worse in rebounding than the Warriors right now, so there was no excuse in being outrebounded tonight. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?s...er=true&split=0 As for Corey Maggette, the Warriors could've traded Mike Dunleavy for him last season or this season if Mullin didn't give him the extension. Put Dunleavy next to Chris Kaman and Elton Brand who like to play inside and he will excel. Along with Cassell/Livingston and Mobley in the backcourt, Dun won't have to carry the scoring load. He'll have guys to pass to in the front court and back. On the Warriors, he's got Murphy and they just don't mesh together. Usually, when Murphy does well, then Dun doesn't and vice versa.
<div class="quote_poster">jason voorhees Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's wasn't missing the free throws that did us in tonight. Tonight the Warriors shot well enough to win from the field and free throw line, but as your stats bear out the Bucks got to the line more than the Warriors. Also, they outrebounded us on the boards. That shouldn't happen with a team like the Bucks. Here's a surprising stat. The Warriors lead the league in FG %age and are ranked top 3 in scoring. They have a +3.2 differential against their opponents. However, they are last in the league in free throw percentage and in the bottom third getting to the line and rebounding. The Bucks are worse in rebounding than the Warriors right now, so there was no excuse in being outrebounded tonight. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?s...er=true&split=0 As for Corey Maggette, the Warriors could've traded Mike Dunleavy for him last season or this season if Mullin didn't give him the extension. Put Dunleavy next to Chris Kaman and Elton Brand who like to play inside and he will excel. Along with Cassell/Livingston and Mobley in the backcourt, Dun won't have to carry the scoring load. He'll have guys to pass to in the front court and back. On the Warriors, he's got Murphy and they just don't mesh together. Usually, when Murphy does well, then Dun doesn't and vice versa.</div> The Warriors in the last two weeks have won when they have similar numbers of free throws as the opponent (see victory vs. Utah and San Antonio). In the losses in this time frame, besides the loss vs. the Suns, the Warriors have been severely out done at the FT-line. This includes GSW 8-12 vs. Indiana 18-26, GSW 15-24 vs. Denver 24-39, GSW 18-29 vs. Denver 28-36 and also the loss tonight vs. the Bucks - GSW 16-20 vs. Mil. 23-34. I just remembered Ike Diogu is a FT machine too. I miss him more now. But yeah, the Warriors dominate in a lot of stats including blocks (by a landslide vs opponents) and steals as well as the shooting stats besides FT's and rebounds.
What I want to know is why was Biedrins playing out on the wing in the zone instead of in the middle? All night long Andris was out on the wing running at guards shooting from 18+ feet out and it was Murphy under the hoop trying to stave off Bogut. That makes no sense to me. This game and the last do not bode well for the Warriors with this big road sequence in December. If they're losing these games at home they may not even be in them on the road. I really thought Nellie was going to turn a few more of those close losses from last year into close wins but that has not been the case. This team is still not disciplined enough to handle pressure down to the wire. They crumble and the Bucks took advantage of every missed opportunity.
<div class="quote_poster">Clif25 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The Warriors in the last two weeks have won when they have similar numbers of free throws as the opponent (see victory vs. Utah and San Antonio). In the losses in this time frame, besides the loss vs. the Suns, the Warriors have been severely out done at the FT-line. This includes GSW 8-12 vs. Indiana 18-26, GSW 15-24 vs. Denver 24-39, GSW 18-29 vs. Denver 28-36 and also the loss tonight vs. the Bucks - GSW 16-20 vs. Mil. 23-34. I just remembered Ike Diogu is a FT machine too. I miss him more now. But yeah, the Warriors dominate in a lot of stats including blocks (by a landslide vs opponents) and steals as well as the shooting stats besides FT's and rebounds.</div> That's a pretty telling tale right there and something Nellie should put up on the chalkboard, but I'm sure he and the assistant coaches are doing that already. It tells you the lack of aggressiveness that Murphy, Pietrus and Dunleavy have. AB doesn't get to the line that much either since he's more finesse than power moves. Ike is much more aggressive than the above mentioned so he should get to the line more. Honestly, the more I think about this, the more we should trade Murphy at all costs. He's not a very good fit here despite his good stats.
2 guys accounted for 23 boards...all the rest-10 rbd total. 2 guys were 8-14 from 3. All others- 2-17 it's interesting that anyone would see this game and it's Murphy traded at all costs-he was the guy who both rebounded and hit his 3's. Dunleavy had a very sucky game. While the numbers for Pietrus and J Rich were pretty dreadful---at least they had numbers. Aside from shots missed-Dun had virtually no stats. Somehow Roberson outscored J Rich-Dun + Pietrus combined-and he played less than 10 min. Trading Dun immediately-however is not much of an option. I was peeved at Murphy on one matter. He was getting to the right place,had position....but lapsed back to an old habit of not putting his hands up. Troy...you're 6-11...put the damn arms up. Murphy is way to careful about fouls,some of the young guys are too reckless.
<div class="quote_poster">jason voorhees Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Fugly 4th quarter. Baron shouldn't have shot that 3-ball. It was downhill from then on.</div> HE WAS WIDE OPEN! I had no problem with that three except that it did not go in...
<div class="quote_poster">REREM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">2 guys accounted for 23 boards...all the rest-10 rbd total. 2 guys were 8-14 from 3. All others- 2-17 it's interesting that anyone would see this game and it's Murphy traded at all costs-he was the guy who both rebounded and hit his 3's. </div> I wasn't looking at just this game, but how Murphy's been playing the last few years. He doesn't mesh with Dunleavy and now with Nelson, you see more of his warts. He's hasn't been the most consistent player. You're right Murphy had a great line for this game, but look at the results. He doesn't exactly make a big impact in the wins column because he gives up just as much or more than what he gets. When Dunleavy plays well, he helps the team win more.
<div class="quote_poster">Warriorfansnc93 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">HE WAS WIDE OPEN! I had no problem with that three except that it did not go in...</div> Again, I'm looking at how Baron plays when it's tight and the game is on the line. He usually pounds the ball and calls his own number and hasn't been too successful in the two losses. If I was the opposing coach, it wouldn't be too much a risk to let Baron shoot a three.
I agree with JV on the Murphy/Baron matter. We need Baron, but he's got to stop forcing the issue because it's predictable. His gift is in giving up the rock and only taking the shot that he's got a high % of making. But he is not a high% player, so I wish he could defer to somebody else if there is anybody else... I mean, the other team wants him to shoot from outside and deny him any room inside. If he goes inside, they will just clobber him so he can shoot 66-70% on free throws or force him to put up a difficult shot reminiscent of his "5 for 18 from the field" type games. With Baron not being a very reliable free throw shooter or shooter in general, it's almost going to cost us a few points that we desperately. Hell, even a cool headed, role player can save the day if the setup guy delivers it to him right. Then my problem with Murphy is despite getting good stats, you have to wonder how much fg% he is help allowing or other teammate's fouls he is responsible for. I think he doesn't protect anybody when the zone collapses or when help defense is needed. I'd rather Dunleavy play defense at PF if Murphy is only going to play defense on his own man. We can't play zone, if Murphy can't even protect his own area and help cover different players in that area. He lets guys go right by him and poor Biedrins had to do something. If Biedrins alters the shot, guess who comes up with the defensive rebound? To me that's stat padding. If we had a better defensive power forward he'd give something back to Biedrins. Plus with Biedrins cutting from the high post inside, it helps to have a more active power forward trying to move in conjunction with the guards to get Biedrins free. Can't stand around and them find an entry pass to Pietrus who is being guarded by the other team's power forward inside. I'd much rather have Dunleavy be the high post playmaker and extra ballhandler at PF instead of Murphy because he is not that type of player. The problem is Dunleavy is horribly inconsistent. He is not a very good shot most of the time. %'s wise we were excellent on offense as far as overall stats indicate, but so was the other team. We could have used some extra rebounding from everyone because poor defense, foul trouble, and good rebounding numbers from our starting bigs don't indicate how we really lost. We could say it was two of our captains and our energy guy Pietrus being horrible.
I think Dunleavy is better with Biedrins than Murphy because he's more active defensively and Biedrins can make up for the loss in rebounding. Murphy was valuable before because he was the only guy getting rebounds in traffic, but now there's Biedrins. That game was awful because everything was in the Warriors favor and they still failed to come out with much passion. It was up and down pretty much the whole game until crunch time when the Warriors went back to jacking up jumpers and not getting rebounds. I don't care if Baron was wide open for 3, you are down 1, take a higher percentage shot, either a 15 footer or go to the rim.
<div class="quote_poster">philsmith75 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't care if Baron was wide open for 3, you are down 1, take a higher percentage shot, either a 15 footer or go to the rim.</div> Yes! High%. If our defense can't lower the other team's % much, we have to get high % on offense. And that means inside scoring, midrange shots, more ball movement activity, more floor spacing, so we can be free to take the shots that go in high%. Role players have to know their spots and setup guys have to find them. If Biedrins can be ultra efficient at fg%, we need most our high volume shooters to be that way as well, or to stop shooting and give up the rock!
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yes! High%. If our defense can't lower the other team's % much, we have to get high % on offense. And that means inside scoring, midrange shots, more ball movement activity, more floor spacing, so we can be free to take the shots that go in high%. Role players have to know their spots and setup guys have to find them. If Biedrins can be ultra efficient at fg%, we need most our high volume shooters to be that way as well, or to stop shooting and give up the rock!</div> Don't the Warriors lead the league in FG% though?
