...for salary reasons. What scenarios might be possible? Discuss. What about this move a la Fisher to Utah for three scrubs: trade for Jeff Mcinnis, Bostjan Nachbar, Mikki Moore to the New Jersey Nets for Troy Murphy. Murphy doesn't get screwed because he's going to a good team. The warriors get some long term salary relief from a player whose current trade value will be up and down because consistency was his biggest value. The running game is really changing his role as two dimensional role player (shooting and rebounding, consistent double doubles). Once we get the Nets' expiring deals, Moore and Mcinnis are released unless we want to keep NBDL standout Mikki Moore for PF/C. We keep Boki Nachbar for a year after this. He might or might not break the rotation, but I think he's got some upside left for a 4 year player who used to be constantly compared to the less gifted shot/running version of Peja Stojakavic. This move should fit within the 15 man roster limit if we decide to waive one or two of the three. I think McInnis makes the most so bye bye he goes. Moore could be decent end of bench player for midrange shot (more so than Foyle) and he could be a defensive role player (mainly at PF) alongside Biedrins depending if we want to use Biedrins for C. If we don't use Biedrins for C, but PF, then we need to promote POB or Foyle at C.... Nachbar might offer something for the open floor game and provide some shooting, but his defense isn't that good despite being just a solid to decent athlete. The Nets took a look at him because they are a running team and Nachbar is that kind of open court/ run the break player. I'm not sure what the Nets salary projections are with the team moving or not moving to Brooklyn or what the budget is for Nenad Krstic, but maybe they could use a guy like Murphy. We could certainly use the free space. If we can't do anything about Foyle/Dun, I'd rather see Murphy off. Better Murphy than Jrich or risk one of our important rookies going to another team, that's for sure. Maybe we can do a package sending Pietrus/Murph to some team so we get something in return for Pietrus if we don't plan to re-sign him, dump Murphy, and possibly dump a contract like Foyle or Dunleavy in the process. I don't know how this could be done, but I don't want to give up anything higher than a future 2nd rounder if the deal still isn't sweet enough. If we give up a conditional future first round pick, I don't care because by that time we're out of the lottery and we don't need more picks. Just cheap, unguaranteed, role players looking to work hard for the team to get noticed and get more playing time. Also, if Baron isn't projected to stay healthy for the next few years it might be a good idea to look for pg replacements sometime down the road while his value is high and he's not rotting on the disabled list. We would need some stop gap until Ellis is actually ready to play point guard (which I think he will once he gets more experience. When he's ready he'll hopefully get something like a 2.8:1 assist to turnover ratio and not what he's doing now) This will be hard, but maybe the package to dump either of Foyle or Dunleavy in the process would even better. But Dun is BYC which limits our ability to trade him now (and plus he's now officially a bench guy)... Murphy and Foyle are not BYC, but only Murphy is considered a good enough starter of the two... Foyle's main strength is that he's a nice character and he's got the team option on his deal for any team that wants an unguaranteed salary year in 2009... Boy, again, did Mullin not know what he was doing in terms of team budget, future planning, and estimating the free agent market talent and market rates. And here we are with same team, minus Derek Fisher (who was a pretty good role player with shooting guard that can handle/playmake and inside player that can post up) This will have to be a year where Mullin will actively do something by all-star break... Even if we do well this season, there's still a storm ahead. Salary is expected to increase, especially if we re-sign our own players. Some guys who are making the most money aren't doing enough on both ends of the floor to justify the deals and that's what's killing us. I'm sure there's a few players that would love to play with Baron Davis, but we couldn't make any moves/acquisitions with things all locked up for the next 6 years starting from 2004-2005 off seasons... Did Mullin really understand this when he said big moves were coming this offseason??? Or did he mean the big move was getting Don Nelson, but not upgrading the team? Even with good drafts, we still need good enough vets that can teach the young guys a thing or two and play minutes where the rookies cannot matchup or are struggling...
I like the thinking, CR2, but I just wonder if NJ would view Murph as a quality starter, or a bench player who would be nice but not really push them towards contention. Then I'd ask why they (or any team) would take Murphy in exchange for cap relief. Remember that the cap relief they give us is cap relief they could just as easily keep for themselves. Oftentimes, cap relief (expiring contracts) are more valuable than a good player, because it can mean the difference between signing your franchise guys or watching them walk away to another team. Teams know Mully is thinking about this whole "cap" thing (yeah Mully, that is part of the GM job) right now. And they know he'd love to trade Foyle, Dun, or perhaps as you say Murphy for scrubness. I just think that Gms are too smart for that. Any sensible GM will say this: "Sure Mully, you want us to help you out? Okay, but we want a prospect along with your ballast." Murphy has value, but due to his contract and low production right now, he's borderline ballast. No GM will take Foyle or Dun without a prospect, but I think even Murphy will be hard to move without including Ike or something. Though it's nice to hypothesize. And your idea is a viable one.
. Has he improved his selection and settled down some this year? My latest trade proposal is Murphy and Ike for Malik Rose and David Lee. It's not the greatest trade, but Isiah is one guy who may go for it. It would be great to get Channing Frye, but Isiah has been too tight fisted about letting him go. David Lee is not happy because he's losing his starting job when Frye and Jared Jeffries come back from injuries. David Lee is solid, a good 6-9, who has gotten his weight up to 250, and can get around 10 ppg and 10 rpg. Lee's rebounding and good defense would be key to his helping the Warriors. Maybe he can get his scoring up under Nelson. Like Ike, he can play the low block and he should be a good fit with Mike Dunleavy or Jason Richardson at small forward. Frye has more range on offense and scores more than Lee, but he's softer on defense and rebounding. Malik Rose is basically a journeyman who can rebound and play D. He can give you 10 - 15 minutes per game as the backup power forward. Sure it hurts to lose Ike's scoring, but in order to trade Murphy, Mullin would have to give something good up.
I would like to deal Murphy for James Posey and Jason Kapono. But maybe the Heat already have too many PF's. I would like the NY deal if Rose had an expiring contract. Basically, I think the changes that this franchise has constantly been going through over this decade has messed with Troy Murphy the most. I mean, Troy Murphy when he first came to the league and was agile and aggressive would fit great here. But since then he has been told to bulk up, then he was told to shoot 3's. I don't think we can claim that he hasn't followed these orders. But at this point, I would agree that he would fit much better in the Eastern Confrence (just look at his recent production vs. Eastern Confrence teams).
<div class="quote_poster">Clif25 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I would like to deal Murphy for James Posey and Jason Kapono. But maybe the Heat already have too many PF's. I would like the NY deal if Rose had an expiring contract. Basically, I think the changes that this franchise has constantly been going through over this decade has messed with Troy Murphy the most. I mean, Troy Murphy when he first came to the league and was agile and aggressive would fit great here. But since then he has been told to bulk up, then he was told to shoot 3's. I don't think we can claim that he hasn't followed these orders. But at this point, I would agree that he would fit much better in the Eastern Confrence (just look at his recent production vs. Eastern Confrence teams).</div> Crap, I"ll take anything short and sweet. Maybe Miami is tired of the Antoine Walker show... does he have an expiring deal as well?
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Clif, one order Murphy cannot follow is to play all-around defense including team defense. </div> Unfortunately. If he could defend he would be very valuable for this team.
<div class="quote_poster">Clif25 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I would like to deal Murphy for James Posey and Jason Kapono. But maybe the Heat already have too many PF's. I would like the NY deal if Rose had an expiring contract. Basically, I think the changes that this franchise has constantly been going through over this decade has messed with Troy Murphy the most. I mean, Troy Murphy when he first came to the league and was agile and aggressive would fit great here. But since then he has been told to bulk up, then he was told to shoot 3's. I don't think we can claim that he hasn't followed these orders. But at this point, I would agree that he would fit much better in the Eastern Confrence (just look at his recent production vs. Eastern Confrence teams).</div> Crap, I"ll take anything short and sweet. Maybe Miami is tired of the Antoine Walker show... does he have an expiring deal as well? apparently he doesn't Not that I want him to emulate the small forward version of Baron Davis for more than a year. How about Murph to Portland for Jamaal Magloire. Throw in Keith McLeod for 2nd rounder Sergio Rodriguez.
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How about Murph to Portland for Jamaal Magloire. Throw in Keith McLeod for 2nd rounder Sergio Rodriguez.</div> Portland wouldn't trade for Murphy when they already have Randolph at a max contract and just drafted Aldridge. They also definitely wouldn't trade Rodriguez for McBrick and a second. Reuben Paterson may be a realistic acquisition as far as expiring contracts go but other than that there aren't many big expiring players that any teams want to give up.
I read that Seattle may soon be looking to trade Rashard Lewis. What do you guys think about trading Murphy and Jrich for Lewis and the expiring deal of Danny Fortson or Murphy and Pietrus for Lewis. I'm not really looking to trade Jrich, in fact I think he is the one proven building block on this team, but it may make sense because he is playing the 3 and I think Lewis is a definate upgrade at SF, plus we get to unload a big contract. Any thoughts?
The reason Lewis may be traded is because he will most likely opt out of his contract after this season. And, considering our finance, I don't think we can afford resigning Lewis for 15+ mils per year. I definitely don't mind trading him for Murphy+, but I won't give up on Richardson for expiring contract now...
<div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Portland wouldn't trade for Murphy when they already have Randolph at a max contract and just drafted Aldridge. They also definitely wouldn't trade Rodriguez for McBrick and a second. Reuben Paterson may be a realistic acquisition as far as expiring contracts go but other than that there aren't many big expiring players that any teams want to give up.</div> Isn't Patterson a buck?
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Isn't Patterson a buck?</div> Yes, I meant expiring contracts in general, not just guys on the Blazers.
New Finding on David Lee Lee's had seven dub dubs this year. Tonight he had against the Bucks -- 12 pts, 13 rebs, 5 asts, 1 blk: Name Min FG 3Pt FT Off Reb Ast TO Stl Blk PF Pts D. Lee 40 6-10 0-0 0-0 4 13 5 1 0 1 1 12 The game before, he had 20 pts, 11 rebs against Memphis. When Lee came into the league, he was 235 lbs. Now he's up to 250 lbs and is a solid 6-9. His game is in the block. If that doesn't convince you, Lee is doing better than AB. That's surprising. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?s...fg%&season=2007 I think the guy's gonna really be good, but Isiah is gonna bench him for Channing Frye and Jared Jeffries. Lee is older than Frye and he teaches him stuff already. The guy schools Frye while Frye continues to get magazine covers and all the attention. What can we do to trade Murphy for Lee?
Only way we can get someone to take Murphy is 1. trade for a worthless player's contract that is soon to expire 2. Trade Murphy for two contracts. One roleplayer type of veteran and one expiring contract. 3. Exchange dissapointment for dissapointment We tried #3 and failed. Tyson Chandler, Kenyon Martin etc. Go for Webber or look for some vets... I don't think there's any way NY gives us David Lee.
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Crap, I"ll take anything short and sweet. Maybe Miami is tired of the Antoine Walker show... does he have an expiring deal as well? </div> Far from it,Walker is older,his deal lasts as long,about $1 mill cheaper but hi D is worse,his % dropped-along with his scoring and he's about 35 at the end of the contract. Murphy's assists,steals,blocks have each more than doubled relative to minutes,his FG%,3pt % are up a lot. His scoring is off,but about the same per min,he's shooting less passing more. Unfortunately-while he's trying more on D-he's got to get in the habit of getting his damn hands up,often he's in place but not getting the hands up means the jump shooter gets a better%. When he remembers-like the Utah game-it's quite a difference. Something about Murphy's role on D is making the rebounding real streaky. Some games he's his usual 10-12 boards,others he's stationed further out-gets half his usual-or even less. Mullins contract generosity has turned Foyle-Dun,two competent bench guys-into problems. Mullin NEEDS Nellie to patch up Murphy's game,get his role right. He can't have on his resume that he converted 3 lotto picks into one guy worth nothing and 2 worth so much less than nothing it costs us more rd 1 picks to remove them. It may be that Mullin got the green light from Cohen to stray past the lux tax line a certain amount for a few years. I think so based on how he handled Dunleavy. If Cohen actually gives Mullin a lot of slack-it may be that we resign pretty much all the rooks and most contracts run their course. The 4 buy-out guys + McLeod + Zarko add up to enough to give Pietrus over $7 mill,and probably have something left for Barnes. After NEXT season-we have Ellis+ Biedrens and those numbers are like the numbers at the gas pumps-spinning higher and higher. If this Summer we were to say,trade Dun, Zarko (S+T) and a 1st for an expiring and a rd 2,that should cover re-upping Monta. If it is our 07 #1-we save about $2 mill by not having a #1 to sign. That would depend on Dun playing fairly well. Could happen. Beidrin's deal likely would be big enough to put us in the Lux tax by $10 mill plus for a year-then Baron and Foyle expire as Ike is due to re-up. At that point,Murphy,with just a couple of years left-with,I'd hope the experiance to be polished and consistant-might have nice market value-the point being-we might prefer to extend Baron a few years when we get to that time. Right now? Murphy won't depart until we get big men (Ike,Zarko) healthy,and O'Bryant is ready to play real minutes. Being hasty to DUMP Murph for peanuts when his value isn't up....and we'd be forced to look to Foyle + Dun as depth at PF/C..makes little sense.
<div class="quote_poster">upsidedownside7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Only way we can get someone to take Murphy is 1. trade for a worthless player's contract that is soon to expire 2. Trade Murphy for two contracts. One roleplayer type of veteran and one expiring contract. 3. Exchange dissapointment for dissapointment We tried #3 and failed. Tyson Chandler, Kenyon Martin etc. Go for Webber or look for some vets... I don't think there's any way NY gives us David Lee.</div> Webber won't happen here,He lobbied to get MULLIN traded-then had a tantrum when it was his homey-Owens shipped for a C,and he became a nightmare for Nellie. As a gift that kept on giving... ...he messed up Sprewells head + attitude beyond repair. Us GIVING his has-been,no wheels,no-D,ass $40 million + would be the final straw-an insufferable indignity. screw him
<div class="quote_poster">ryanfish Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I read that Seattle may soon be looking to trade Rashard Lewis. What do you guys think about trading Murphy and Jrich for Lewis and the expiring deal of Danny Fortson or Murphy and Pietrus for Lewis. I'm not really looking to trade Jrich, in fact I think he is the one proven building block on this team, but it may make sense because he is playing the 3 and I think Lewis is a definate upgrade at SF, plus we get to unload a big contract. Any thoughts?</div> Overall---there is not a lot gained in a J Rich-Lewis swap,J Rich was the better scorer-and us matching bids for Lewis in a year would tend to mean we pay more than what J Rich gets. Lewis's D is not much respected. Those who are fussing that Murphy is weak on D--would find that Lewis is no better and does not compensate by rebounding,which I consider the finishing touch on a defensive stop. That even would make a Pietrus-Lewis exchange little gain,as Pietrus should be signable. Fortson's last visit ended with an unexplained couple of months of DNP...so someone was not happy. Again-I expect a competent GM to be able to sell a 6-11 guy who has produced double-doubles,who's improved his FG%,his assists,steals,blocks,3pt %. I think Nellie will further refine him and he will stay as part of a 3 man team at PF/C. There are a dozen big men around the league paid more with as many flaws-or more.
David Lee Trade: Wonder If Knicks and Nugz Would Go For This Golden State Trade Breakdown Outgoing Troy Murphy 6-11 PF from Notre Dame 14.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 1.4 apg in 34.0 minutes Mickael Pietrus 6-6 SG from France (Foreign) 9.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.9 apg in 22.7 minutes Incoming Malik Rose 6-7 PF from Drexel 4.5 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.6 minutes David Lee 6-9 PF from Florida 5.2 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.6 apg in 16.8 minutes Change in team outlook: -13.6 ppg, -5.0 rpg, and -0.8 apg. Denver Trade Breakdown Outgoing Kenyon Martin 6-9 PF from Cincinnati 12.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.4 apg in 27.6 minutes Incoming Troy Murphy 6-11 PF from Notre Dame 14.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 1.4 apg in 34.0 minutes Jerome James 7-1 C from Florida A&M 3.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.0 minutes Change in team outlook: +4.1 ppg, +5.7 rpg, and +0.3 apg. New York Trade Breakdown Outgoing Malik Rose 6-7 PF from Drexel 4.5 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.6 minutes Jerome James 7-1 C from Florida A&M 3.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.0 minutes David Lee 6-9 PF from Florida 5.2 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.6 apg in 16.8 minutes Incoming Mickael Pietrus 6-6 SG from France (Foreign) 9.3 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.9 apg in 22.7 minutes Kenyon Martin 6-9 PF from Cincinnati 12.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.4 apg in 27.6 minutes Change in team outlook: +9.5 ppg, -0.7 rpg, and +0.5 apg. Successful Scenario Due to Golden State, Denver, and New York being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Golden State, Denver, and New York had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Nugz get rid of Kenyon Martin's bad contract and receive Murphy who's a better fit with Marcus Camby and Melo on the front line. Knicks get Kenyon Martin after he returns from injury and MP as a bonafide swingman. Warriors get Lee and journeyman Malik Rose.
<div class="quote_poster">REREM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Far from it,Walker is older,his deal lasts as long,about $1 mill cheaper but hi D is worse,his % dropped-along with his scoring and he's about 35 at the end of the contract. Murphy's assists,steals,blocks have each more than doubled relative to minutes,his FG%,3pt % are up a lot. His scoring is off,but about the same per min,he's shooting less passing more. Unfortunately-while he's trying more on D-he's got to get in the habit of getting his damn hands up,often he's in place but not getting the hands up means the jump shooter gets a better%. When he remembers-like the Utah game-it's quite a difference. Something about Murphy's role on D is making the rebounding real streaky. Some games he's his usual 10-12 boards,others he's stationed further out-gets half his usual-or even less. Mullins contract generosity has turned Foyle-Dun,two competent bench guys-into problems. Mullin NEEDS Nellie to patch up Murphy's game,get his role right. He can't have on his resume that he converted 3 lotto picks into one guy worth nothing and 2 worth so much less than nothing it costs us more rd 1 picks to remove them. It may be that Mullin got the green light from Cohen to stray past the lux tax line a certain amount for a few years. I think so based on how he handled Dunleavy. If Cohen actually gives Mullin a lot of slack-it may be that we resign pretty much all the rooks and most contracts run their course. The 4 buy-out guys + McLeod + Zarko add up to enough to give Pietrus over $7 mill,and probably have something left for Barnes. After NEXT season-we have Ellis+ Biedrens and those numbers are like the numbers at the gas pumps-spinning higher and higher. If this Summer we were to say,trade Dun, Zarko (S+T) and a 1st for an expiring and a rd 2,that should cover re-upping Monta. If it is our 07 #1-we save about $2 mill by not having a #1 to sign. That would depend on Dun playing fairly well. Could happen. Beidrin's deal likely would be big enough to put us in the Lux tax by $10 mill plus for a year-then Baron and Foyle expire as Ike is due to re-up. At that point,Murphy,with just a couple of years left-with,I'd hope the experiance to be polished and consistant-might have nice market value-the point being-we might prefer to extend Baron a few years when we get to that time. Right now? Murphy won't depart until we get big men (Ike,Zarko) healthy,and O'Bryant is ready to play real minutes. Being hasty to DUMP Murph for peanuts when his value isn't up....and we'd be forced to look to Foyle + Dun as depth at PF/C..makes little sense.</div> REREM, I'm glad you're positive about the warriors future and on top of details Props! I would love to keep more of our unique players that posess a combo of footspeed, strength, skill, teamwork/intangibles and aggressiveness. I don't mind Zarko being that kind of tweener. But I hope we have at least the starting positions play a pure position.
