Uh Oh Baron's Ugly Side Shows Up

No, I just think he is being competitive and tired of his teammates blowing it after a great effort on his part. But he was part to blame in the loss by taking the exact same jumper as Roberson. I wonder what his comment about this is not a team means? I think he wants it to be a team. I know Murphy is stinking it up.

 

His ugly side has been showing up periodically since he's arrived in the Golden State. First it was aimed at Monty, now in reaction to the realization that it's not so much the coach, but the roster.

The State of the Warriors is far from Golden...more like the color of a rusted, corroded iron nail. Yes, it's an illusion, like fool's gold...anyone for the Fool's Golden State Warriors?

I am a warriors fan, just venting, like Baron does from time to time. There is no teammate except maybe for JRich who approaches Baron as far as talent and experience. As long as that's the case the Warriors will be mediocre at best and Baron, and the fans, will be frustrated.

 

I wished the Roberson jumper went in but it looked like a good shot, he was only 15 ft in on a 2 on 1 after Baron threw him the ball. Did not realize Baron did not get any shots after 6 mins left. Maybe guys need to give him the ball back after he gives it up. Barnes chucked up a 3 after the Warriors got an offensive rebound, not a good look.

When the Warriors were down 5 and 6 in the last 3 mins, they were chucking up 3s instead of patiently going to the rack or getting easy 2s. That's not how a good team comes back, unless you've got Brent Barry on the perimeter.

 

The starters all played well -- all in double figures on excellent fg%.

The bench?

Barnes had 20pts but on 6-16 shooting. He shot 10 threes!!!

McCleod is a ball hog -- it's hard to blame him because he made 11-12 freethrows, but everytime the ball gets in his hands the play is over. He's worse than Derek Fisher.

Dunleavy was a no show again. Surely there's someone else out there in the NBA that could provide some production for that kind of money. I mean he's had good games without statistics, but tonight was a bad game without statistics. He needs to be able to score 12 points every night, at least. Is that so much to ask? Barnes can do that with fewer minutes, even when his shot isn't falling. Just score some, Dun. Or give us something...

The rest of the bench? What bench? POB? Roberson? These guys have barely even played in the NBA... Foyle? C'mon!! This roster is as thin as a one-sided pancake and unless we make a hefty 3-way trade, or JRich suddenly has some miracle and returns sometime before the all-star break, or Ike somehow miraculously returns and picks up like he never missed camp, we're going to see many more games like this one.

I mean, Baron could be doing some things better, and I still wonder if a superman street baller can ever lead a team to a championship, but -- c'mon guys -- Baron has been carrying this team on his back, and I don't see anyone else ready to step up and take ownership. JRich is at home on the couch playing PS3.

 

I don't blame Baron for being angry after this game. He's talking about getting better players in. Nellie has been alluding to the same thing. Only Mullin and Higgins don't say anything about what they're going to do. I think some of the frustration is over that and that guys aren't stepping up on D, rebounding and just taking bad shots.

 

All Chuck No Luck

First half,we led in rebounding. Second half-went small,perimeter and no rebounders. When Beans touched a board,he'd be in a crowd of Sonics slappin' and grabbin'

Starters shot about 55%....subs shot 33%. The mini look didn't work-small works if you kill with speed,ball movement,marksmanship. We needed Foyle or Murph in the second half. Usually Nellie sees the game- he missed something in this one.

 

<div class="quote_poster">philsmith75 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I wished the Roberson jumper went in but it looked like a good shot, he was only 15 ft in on a 2 on 1 after Baron threw him the ball. Did not realize Baron did not get any shots after 6 mins left. Maybe guys need to give him the ball back after he gives it up. Barnes chucked up a 3 after the Warriors got an offensive rebound, not a good look.

When the Warriors were down 5 and 6 in the last 3 mins, they were chucking up 3s instead of patiently going to the rack or getting easy 2s. That's not how a good team comes back, unless you've got Brent Barry on the perimeter.</div>

Or Dfish?

I don't trust our shooting off the dribble, so I hope if we get a play where we must attack from the outside and pull up for a shot, the shooter is without the ball before he arrives to the spot. Backdoor plays, cuts, and solid screen setting should give us this kind of game where we don't have to have superior ballhandling to make closer range shots. But the warriors do not buy into that sort of game as we saw last year and they have problems executing which affects floor spacing and the timing to make the play actually work.

Groan. I'm feeling sjcecran right here. I gotta vent soon!

 

<div class="quote_poster">REREM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">All Chuck No Luck

First half,we led in rebounding. Second half-went small,perimeter and no rebounders. When Beans touched a board,he'd be in a crowd of Sonics slappin' and grabbin'

Starters shot about 55%....subs shot 33%. The mini look didn't work-small works if you kill with speed,ball movement,marksmanship. We needed Foyle or Murph in the second half. Usually Nellie sees the game- he missed something in this one.</div>

Foyle and Murph, huh? I guess it couldn't be worse than 1 on 5 basketball.
At least combined they make up one person on the offensive end and one person on the defensive end. With no inside game of course.

 

<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Or Dfish?

I don't trust our shooting off the dribble, so I hope if we get a play where we must attack from the outside and pull up for a shot, the shooter is without the ball before he arrives to the spot. Backdoor plays, cuts, and solid screen setting should give us this kind of game where we don't have to have superior ballhandling to make closer range shots. But the warriors do not buy into that sort of game as we saw last year and they have problems executing which affects floor spacing and the timing to make the play actually work.

Groan. I'm feeling sjcecran right here. I gotta vent soon!</div>

How come a team like the Jazz can have Harpring score on backcuts but the Warriors cannot get a good shot unless its a wide open 3? Awful execution. Dunleavy spoke about that a little while ago about having everyone on the same page in running the plays.

McCloud is really getting on my nerves, good on the ball D, but lousy shooter and lousy passer. I know Roberson is going get killed on D if he's inserted but there's got to be someone better out there, a Duhon/Lue/Mo Williams type.

 

I think the Warriors franchise players (or lack thereof) makes it really hard for any minor role players to become better than they really are (I mean forget Brent Barry, Chris Duhon, Dfish, or some guy). What we need are anchors like Duncan, Brand and a suitable starting backcourt and center.

We saw the Clips turn around once they filled in the backcourt with Mobley/Cassell and Kaman started doing well at center. They just weren't very deep, though.

 

Good points philsmith75 and CR2. I will be optimistic and say that the team is not executing backdoor cuts and such plays constantly because they are still learning the system by Don Nelson. I have not checked the recent post-game quotes but I know that the players seemed very focused on getting the new systems down. I don't know if things have changed after a glince of success and now a stint of defeat. Another reason why the players don't execute with great consistency on backdoor cuts and such, is because of the 3-ball. There are just too many players that shoot the 3. There is Murphy, Pietrus, Baron, Monta, Dunleavy, Barnes, McLeod, Roberson, and last years' team leader in 3 pointers attempted Jason Richardson. Again, I say each game the team should first focus on getting Murphy, Andris, Ike, POB, and whomever is in the paint as many easy buckets as possible in the paint. Maybe they should open each half that way.

CR2 you have a good point. The top players on this team need to shoot better FG%'s. The best go-to players are ones who shoot high percentages and score a lot of points (Pierce, Kobe, KG, Duncan, Arenas). The other best players are the guards who can run the point and distribute the ball(Kidd, Nash, Paul, etc.) . Unfortunately Baron Davis doesn't fit into the go-to player role on a high percentage of times, and Baron doesn't yet know or has the discipline to be that type of point guard. He has the skill and talent to be that type of PG but he isn't there yet mentally. What did Grant Hill say about basketball? I think it was Grant Hill; but I think he said something about the game being like 90% mental or something like that. Really that comment is not invalid. The best teams are the ones that know how to play, and they definitly know how to play and execute their systems. Look at the Jazz and the Lakers this year as example.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Clif25 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Good points philsmith75 and CR2. I will be optimistic and say that the team is not executing backdoor cuts and such plays constantly because they are still learning the system by Don Nelson. I have not checked the recent post-game quotes but I know that the players seemed very focused on getting the new systems down. I don't know if things have changed after a glince of success and now a stint of defeat. Another reason why the players don't execute with great consistency on backdoor cuts and such, is because of the 3-ball. There are just too many players that shoot the 3. There is Murphy, Pietrus, Baron, Monta, Dunleavy, Barnes, McLeod, Roberson, and last years' team leader in 3 pointers attempted Jason Richardson. Again, I say each game the team should first focus on getting Murphy, Andris, Ike, POB, and whomever is in the paint as many easy buckets as possible in the paint. Maybe they should open each half that way.

CR2 you have a good point. The top players on this team need to shoot better FG%'s. The best go-to players are ones who shoot high percentages and score a lot of points (Pierce, Kobe, KG, Duncan, Arenas). The other best players are the guards who can run the point and distribute the ball(Kidd, Nash, Paul, etc.) . Unfortunately Baron Davis doesn't fit into the go-to player role on a high percentage of times, and Baron doesn't yet know or has the discipline to be that type of point guard. He has the skill and talent to be that type of PG but he isn't there yet mentally. What did Grant Hill say about basketball? I think it was Grant Hill; but I think he said something about the game being like 90% mental or something like that. Really that comment is not invalid. The best teams are the ones that know how to play, and they definitly know how to play and execute their systems. Look at the Jazz and the Lakers this year as example.</div>

Yeah, I definitely hear you Clif on the description of a true go-to player.

If the game is 90% mental, we must have a lot of chokers. If a guy has good shot mechanics and is a decent shot from 20 feet while being contested, they ought to at least make 75% free throws with nobody guarding them. It's really embarassing to have more than two guards that can't shoot at the foul line... but yet the pressure must get to them.

Then let's not forget how we start off well, but then when games don't matter, we start going on a winning streak, thereby ruining our drafty lottery chances at a top 5 pick. I'm starting not to like this play for pride attitude when it's a lost season for sure. We're just screwing with the natural order of things. If we were really pissed about missing out on Rudy Gay at #8, well blame the Warriors and their rookies for breaking out when the season is already over.

It just seems like we only do well when the pressure is off or teams take us lightly enough to sneak in. If we didn't have to worry about playoffs so much and every game being extremely important, maybe guys would be doing better down the stretch. But the pressure is very real beacause we are a mediocre team competing in a very tough conference. It's hard to believe we have a chance with so many better teams than us that can play in more than one way. Our way is just drive and kick or dive cut, and that style of game is only successful if we're beating the other team by outhustling them, outshooting them or outquicking them.

 

<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, I definitely hear you Clif on the description of a true go-to player.

If the game is 90% mental, we must have a lot of chokers. If a guy has good shot mechanics and is a decent shot from 20 feet while being contested, they ought to at least make 75% free throws with nobody guarding them. It's really embarassing to have more than two guards that can't shoot at the foul line... but yet the pressure must get to them.

Then let's not forget how we start off well, but then when games don't matter, we start going on a winning streak, thereby ruining our drafty lottery chances at a top 5 pick. I'm starting not to like this play for pride attitude when it's a lost season for sure. We're just screwing with the natural order of things. If we were really pissed about missing out on Rudy Gay at #8, well blame the Warriors and their rookies for breaking out when the season is already over.

It just seems like we only do well when the pressure is off or teams take us lightly enough to sneak in. If we didn't have to worry about playoffs so much and every game being extremely important, maybe guys would be doing better down the stretch. But the pressure is very real beacause we are a mediocre team competing in a very tough conference. It's hard to believe we have a chance with so many better teams than us that can play in more than one way. Our way is just drive and kick or dive cut, and that style of game is only successful if we're beating the other team by outhustling them, outshooting them or outquicking them.</div>

I think the issue for playing under pressure is solved mentally. Teams under pressure need to know how to execute and part of execution is playing good defense when the time calls for it. Andris Biedrins hits the big FT's at a pretty shocking rate. The team needs to learn how to give the extra effort both mentally and physically defensively, rebounding, as well as shooting the free ones to win more of the close games. Offensively they just need to have the mentallity that they can depend on each other and that each player is on the same page. It doesn't really take pride to win the in the NBA. Individually it may be so. But for teams I think it is mostly mental which branches into execution (especially as a team).

Again I will be optimistic and say that this season is young with Nelson as the head coach, and the players that are contributing are young or is Baron Davis who has never really been disciplined as a player (which might be said for each player on the team, in particular the vets).

 

Here's a Foxsports.com analyst, Charley Rosen, take on Baron and its not pretty:

Golden State's ostensible leader is Baron Davis, and his performance against the Rockets was a microcosm of the Warriors' woes.

On defense, Davis was simply horrible. He usually went under screens, thereby letting his opponent fire away from the perimeter without even token opposition. He did this even when he was guarding Tracy McGrady. And when McGrady cut off a weakside screen and scored an unimpeded layup, Davis wasn't even in the picture. T-Mac continued to waste Davis, on baseline drives and on wing-isos.

To start the second half, Davis was switched on to Shane Battier, a much more passive scorer than T-Mac. In this matchup, Davis was more interested in chasing the ball than in playing solid defense. On one sequence, he raced from the wing to the middle to try to harass McGrady, but then made no attempt to recover when T-Mac whipped a pass to Battier. Finding himself unguarded, Battier easily buried a trey.

Davis's offense wasn't much better. He did tally 18 points on 6-16 shooting, and added 5 assists and two steals. But four of his misses were forced shots (including an airball). Worse, Davis passed the ball a total of sixteen times — this number includes assists, entry passes, go-nowhere passes, turnover passes, and even inbounds passes. In other words, Davis had 32 touches on offense and shot every other time he handled the ball.

Let me put it this way: While Davis is an extremely talented player who showcases a rare combination of speed, quickness, power, and creativity, the guy is only looking out for No. 1. And that's exactly why he's at the top of the losers' list.

Yikes.

 

<div class="quote_poster">philsmith75 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Let me put it this way: While Davis is an extremely talented player who showcases a rare combination of speed, quickness, power, and creativity, the guy is only looking out for No. 1. And that's exactly why he's at the top of the losers' list.</div>That sums it up pretty well. And then the injuries, while not Baron's fault, are another negative factor. I'm really getting that feeling deep in my gut that he's just never going to be the hero we all want him to be. Like the Warriors team as a whole, the potential is there but for whatever reason, it just never happens, year after year.

This is why a trade involving Baron for AI (with other pieces) is so intruiging to me. AI is sort of the anti-Baron in that you can easily go down a pick off many flaws with Iverson's game, and yet when it all comes out int he wash, he has that winner aura about him that Baron just doesn't. And while I cringe when I see Baron taking that last shot (or JRich for that matter), AI is truly a guy that I absolutely, unhesitatingly want to have the ball in his hands to take that last shot, every single time. The Warriors don't have a guy like that right now.

 

Charley Rosen is such a hater though. I chalk up Baron's attitude mostly to the fact he doesn't have a good team to keep things honest on offense.
The only move we got is drive and kick and post up and kick or dive cut.

Maybe we are not doing a good job running plays, but then again Baron isn't very traditional as a point guard to call them. He left college early, so who knows if he has a quarterback's mentality for the head coach. He wasn't really a traditional point that can hold his hand up and run plays as a QB. He's creative nonetheless and a physical matchup nightmare. If his teammates were any good, I'd hope they'd at least gel with his make-it-up-as-you-go-along style. Guys can feed of Baron, but now when they can't provide the roles needed to make this a better team.

We need more strength, athleticism, and smarts and guys who play like their position. If Murphy doesn't provide a center's role, than how can we play beyond just shooting jumpers.

 

<div class="quote_poster">HiRez Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That sums it up pretty well. And then the injuries, while not Baron's fault, are another negative factor. I'm really getting that feeling deep in my gut that he's just never going to be the hero we all want him to be. Like the Warriors team as a whole, the potential is there but for whatever reason, it just never happens, year after year.

This is why a trade involving Baron for AI (with other pieces) is so intruiging to me. AI is sort of the anti-Baron in that you can easily go down a pick off many flaws with Iverson's game, and yet when it all comes out int he wash, he has that winner aura about him that Baron just doesn't. And while I cringe when I see Baron taking that last shot (or JRich for that matter), AI is truly a guy that I absolutely, unhesitatingly want to have the ball in his hands to take that last shot, every single time. The Warriors don't have a guy like that right now.</div>

You know, this is really intriguing. I never really thought of it this way. However, Baron has hit some big shots for the Warriors.

The problem is that you look at his history, Baron has never been on a winner. At UCLA, they had an absolutely physically loaded team, Baron, Watson, Gadzuric, JaRon Rush, JR Henderson (not NBA though), and they never went past the Sweet Sixteen. Baron never won anything with the Hornets.

At least AI went to the Finals and led 1-0. Maybe not so bad, so long as the Warriors keep Monta and Biedrins.

 

Charley Rosen is too biased. Don't even bother reading his articles. Why didn't he write an article about Baron when he had 11 assists in the first quarter against the Kings and had a monster night? Just by chance he writes about the horrible game at Houston? Please.

I wouldn't want A.I., I don't see him playing well with Baron. I would try and get Paul Pierce though. Him and Baron could tear it up.

 

It just very well may be Baron for AI is the best deal the Sixers are going to get. The players that Boston are supposed to give up - West, Jefferson, Telfair and Ratliff seem better than Baron and two young guys.

If the Warriors have to give up somebody, Baron would be a better deal than JRich.

In any trade, one is taking a risk, but trading Baron instead of an injured JRich would be less risky. We'll still have Monta and JRich if AI ends up not working out.