<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> These animals aren't "completely" helpless. They're smarter than you're average human, they're senses are top notch. They know that something is unnatural during hunting season, they're more cautious </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> they might be smart, but there's little danger of them shooting you, now is there? </div> To put what phun said into perspective; hunters go for deers and other animals that can't really fight back and can do nothing but run. This is why hunters don't usually challenge animals that have a chance to kill them as well, such as lions and tigers. So, in a way, the animals that ARE hunted are pretty much helpless because if their senses fail them even for a second, they will suddenly die in the blink of an eye. Wheras (as I've seen in a video), a lion won't die until 3 or 4 or even 5 shots are pumped into it. A lion is a animal that is not "completely" helpless...if the animal cannot fight the hunter back, then it IS completely helpless. I'm against hunting animals for sport or for fun. I would understand if it was a necessity to kill them in order to get food for survival but people kill them to hang their heads up on thier cottage wall, which is totally ridiculous.
hey the black mamba, are u planning on any hunting excursions with your vice president? personally, i think gloating over killing animals is barbaric and should be treated as a crime. furthermore, its cruel on so many levels: (1) the animal experiences excruciating amounts of pain (i don't care about your accuracy) as a consequence of your willful act (2) food is scarce on many parts of the world, hunting for just the heck of it mocks those without (3) hunting related casualties (see the dude your vice president tried to murder) (4) more guns= more crime (i.e. columbine to gang warfare in south central) those were some random points i thought up, i'm sure i can think of more but i strongly encourage u to think twice the next time u consider hunting.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> (3) hunting related casualties (see the dude your vice president tried to murder) </div> Sorry to veer off topic, but that reminds me of the Daily show. That segment was brilliantly covered, and is perhaps one of the funniest DS skits ever. "We're live at the scene where the vice-president of the United states SHOT A 78 YEAR OLD MAN IN THE FACE". <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> People hunt Lion all the time in Africa, just so you know. </div> Actually, I didn't know that, but I was reffering to lions because they can actually fight back and shouldn't be considered helpless. The animals that are often hunted in the States (Deer, birds) can't really attack the hunters back now can they? Therefore, they are technically helpless, despite what you say about thier senses. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> (1) the animal experiences excruciating amounts of pain (i don't care about your accuracy) as a consequence of your willful act </div> To add to that, not all hunters are accurate all the time, and it might take 2 or 3 shots to kill an animal. Therefore, the animal continously suffers before it is finally dead. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Hunting is a way of life, it's been around for centuries. Some state economies depend on hunting. </div> Natural animal-to-animal hunting is a "way of life". Humans using man-made powerful weapons to bring down animals for no other reason then to gloat or hang up on thier walls is not the "way of life". Just because something has been around for centuries does not mean it should be honored. Disrespect towards women and any other race aside from whites was around for centuries, you don't see the world still following that tradition, correct? As for state economies being dependent on hunting, I'm sure there are alternate ways to generate profit than just being dependent on a bunch of hunters killing innocent deer (and even worse, birds) and then hanging thier heads on a wall.
<div class="quote_poster">deception Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">hey the black mamba, are u planning on any hunting excursions with your vice president? personally, i think gloating over killing animals is barbaric and should be treated as a crime. furthermore, its cruel on so many levels: (1) the animal experiences excruciating amounts of pain (i don't care about your accuracy) as a consequence of your willful act (2) food is scarce on many parts of the world, hunting for just the heck of it mocks those without (3) hunting related casualties (see the dude your vice president tried to murder) (4) more guns= more crime (i.e. columbine to gang warfare in south central) those were some random points i thought up, i'm sure i can think of more but i strongly encourage u to think twice the next time u consider hunting.</div> 1 - Are you that animal? Do you know how excruciating the pain is? 2 - Honestly, am I supposed to give a damn? The same can be said for you. Stop buying vegetables, it's rubbing it in their faces because you can afford it. 3 - That was the stupidest thing I've seen you post. You're a really smart dude, I didn't expect such trash from you. Not every hunter is an idiot like him. You just generalized a good portion of the population with one idiotic statement. 4 - Idiots who don't think straight = more crime. If gun laws were more strict, they wouldn't go away. A black market would start (think when alcohol was banned). People will start finding more brutal ways of killing people, as well. I'd rather be shot than stabbed to death. Why should I think twice about hunting next time I go in a couple of weekends?
<div class="quote_poster">Karma Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Actually, I didn't know that, but I was reffering to lions because they can actually fight back and shouldn't be considered helpless. The animals that are often hunted in the States (Deer, birds) can't really attack the hunters back now can they? Therefore, they are technically helpless, despite what you say about thier senses. </div> Lions get shot with much, much more powerful rifles, I honestly would take a deers sense over a lions strength when it comes to hunting. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">To add to that, not all hunters are accurate all the time, and it might take 2 or 3 shots to kill an animal. Therefore, the animal continously suffers before it is finally dead.</div> That is a very valid point, but more often than not, the first shot is the kill shot. If you have to shoot more than twice, you're shooting at nothing and you're not going to hit your target. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Natural animal-to-animal hunting is a "way of life". Humans using man-made powerful weapons to bring down animals for no other reason then to gloat or hang up on thier walls is not the "way of life". Just because something has been around for centuries does not mean it should be honored. Disrespect towards women and any other race aside from whites was around for centuries, you don't see the world still following that tradition, correct? As for state economies being dependent on hunting, I'm sure there are alternate ways to generate profit than just being dependent on a bunch of hunters killing innocent deer (and even worse, birds) and then hanging thier heads on a wall.</div> Actually, Michigan's economy is in the gutter right now. It's unemployement rate is about 7% when the national average is about 4%, it thrives off of hunting income. A good portion of the money brought in from hunters is turned around and used on wildlife, as well.
<div class="quote_poster">TheBlackMamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> 2 - Honestly, am I supposed to give a damn? The same can be said for you. Stop buying vegetables, it's rubbing it in their faces because you can afford it. </div> deception was pretty aggressive with his tone but that is really an ignorant thing to say man 'am i supposed to give a damn'? yes, you are as a matter of fact. you're making me bust out the starving baby photo.still feel the same way? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">4 - Idiots who don't think straight = more crime. If gun laws were more strict, they wouldn't go away. A black market would start (think when alcohol was banned). People will start finding more brutal ways of killing people, as well. I'd rather be shot than stabbed to death.</div>this is total BS. in countries where guns are much harder to come by, guess what? Their murder rates are a fraction of the U.S. Crimes of passion, heat of the moment crimes (which is 90% of murders) when there is a gun around almost always end in a fatality. No gun? You might get stabbed MAYBE if the person's really nuts, and then you will most likely be fine. Guns are a HUGE catalyst for violence just by their existence alone.
<div class="quote_poster">TheBlackMamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">1 - Are you that animal? Do you know how excruciating the pain is? 2 - Honestly, am I supposed to give a damn? The same can be said for you. Stop buying vegetables, it's rubbing it in their faces because you can afford it. 3 - That was the stupidest thing I've seen you post. You're a really smart dude, I didn't expect such trash from you. Not every hunter is an idiot like him. You just generalized a good portion of the population with one idiotic statement. 4 - Idiots who don't think straight = more crime. If gun laws were more strict, they wouldn't go away. A black market would start (think when alcohol was banned). People will start finding more brutal ways of killing people, as well. I'd rather be shot than stabbed to death. Why should I think twice about hunting next time I go in a couple of weekends?</div> 1) logic tells me animals endure excruciating amounts of pain 2) animals go extinct, vegetables don't 3) i'm surprised u tried to refute this point cause i understand its a concern even amongst the hunting community cause minors are legally o.k. to hunt 4) more guns= increases the likelihood that guns will end of up in the hands of deranged individuals (e.g. columbine killers) or street criminals -u should think twice because of all of the above points
Yes, I was ignorant and I do care, but c'mon. Am I supposed to feel bad that I can hunt when other people can't afford food? His logic was very flawed by saying that, because it's the same as him buying vegetables. He can afford them, maybe he should stop spending them. <div class="quote_poster">deception Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">1) logic tells me animals endure excruciating amounts of pain 2) animals go extinct, vegetables don't 3) i'm surprised u tried to refute this point cause i understand its a concern even amongst the hunting community cause minors are legally o.k. to hunt 4) more guns= increases the likelihood that guns will end of up in the hands of deranged individuals (e.g. columbine killers) or street criminals -u should think twice because of all of the above points </div> 1 - Logic also says that animals endure excruciating amounts of pain from starving, lack of shelter, disease, and predators. Hunting limits all of that. 2 - An animal has never gone extinct from hunting in the United States, there are laws that do control it, you know. In fact the animal population has increased among white tail deer since hunting was legalized. 3 - Yes minors are legal to hunt, the age is 12 in Michigan. They also have to pass a hunter's safety course, which isn't exactly easy. 4 - Less guns = more stabbings, beatings, black market trade, etc. Think twice about buying vegetables, think twice about the animals that starve every year.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> this is total BS. in countries where guns are much harder to come by, guess what? Their murder rates are a fraction of the U.S. Crimes of passion, heat of the moment crimes (which is 90% of murders) when there is a gun around almost always end in a fatality. No gun? You might get stabbed MAYBE if the person's really nuts, and then you will most likely be fine. Guns are a HUGE catalyst for violence just by their existence alone.</div> That may be true, but guns will never go away. Black market. Think of when alcohol was illegal, it never went away.
<div class="quote_poster">TheBlackMamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> 1 - Logic also says that animals endure excruciating amounts of pain from starving, lack of shelter, disease, and predators. Hunting limits all of that. 2 - An animal has never gone extinct from hunting in the United States, there are laws that do control it, you know. In fact the animal population has increased among white tail deer since hunting was legalized. 3 - Yes minors are legal to hunt, the age is 12 in Michigan. They also have to pass a hunter's safety course, which isn't exactly easy. 4 - Less guns = more stabbings, beatings, black market trade, etc. </div> 1) assumption, u don't know how the animals perceives their existence.furthermore, your reasoning is tantamount to saying that iraqi's suffer so dropping bombs on them is o.k. 2) ever heard of the panda? and fyi i never isolated my argument to americans. 3) read the press wires. young people and guns is a disaster waiting to happen. 4) assumption. btw, ever heard of game theory? game theory is largely considered the main galvanizer behind the nuclear proliferation movement. the theory was as follows: u take out your opponets (the USSR or uncle Sam depending on perspective) possible options by maximizing your options. what that meant was that both tried to outdo one another by assembling the biggest and baddest nuclear arsenal possible. using game theory logic which u obviously subscribe to: means the criminal would simply have an ak 47 to outdo your handgun. i'm not going to even touch the vegetable argument.
1 - What does hunting have to do with Iraqi's? Assumption for you as well, you don't know how quick an animal dies from a clean shot or how much pain they feel. 2 - I did isolate it to America, that's what i'm talking about, that's what I hunt...in America. 3 - Not if they're properly supervised... 4 - You lost me...
<div class="quote_poster">TheBlackMamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">1 - What does hunting have to do with Iraqi's? Assumption for you as well, you don't know how quick an animal dies from a clean shot or how much pain they feel. 2 - I did isolate it to America, that's what i'm talking about, that's what I hunt...in America. 3 - Not if they're properly supervised... 4 - You lost me...</div> 1) iraqi's= extending your logical continuum, and i don't to the other part. 2) its good u hunt in america, so refer to the next two points 3) do u want to give children the right to take life? plus, accidents are more likely with minors. 4) re-read the post. i'm deconstructing your logic here using analogy (i.e. your playing russian roulette when u choose to own a gun)
Lets keep this thread on hunting, and make a new one about guns. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Logic also says that animals endure excruciating amounts of pain from starving, lack of shelter, disease, and predators. Hunting limits all of that.</div> Saying that animals might endure starving and disease some time in the future is hardly a reasonable argument for hunting. As for the predators, they play their role in the ecosystem, and, if they are left unshot by hunters, they will limit the population of the animals that they eat so that balance will be upheld.
<div class="quote_poster">Bahir Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Lets keep this thread on hunting, and make a new one about guns. </div> if we exclusively discuss hunting in isolation, we get into issues of morality, a nebulous category which doesn't make for rational discussion. so i feel discussing the enablers of the act such as guns, teenagers, deranged adults is the holistic approach to the issue and the better way as well.
<div class="quote_poster">Air Fresh Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Myself I would never hunt animals, I just don't have the heart to shoot a harmless aninal like a deer or something. But its acceptable if your going to eat the animal, I don't think its right killing an animal just for fur or for a rug or to hang up on your wall.</div> I agree 100% there.
I'm fine with hunting deer and stuff and eating them. Trophy hunting doesnt make as much sense to me. What worries me is that some of the people i know that go hunting talk casualy about running over snakes and killing stuff and all that just for fun.
