Um, did you guys see last nights game against the Rockets (on ESPN). You tell me who wouldn't be whining when they are given calls like that. Kobe was fouled mulitiple times driving to the basket, but the refs continue to give him no-calls
I wouldn't say Kobe cries, but he does get fouled. If you drive in 100 times, you aren't going to get all 100 calls, so you have to live with it. Another player that I see get fouled a lot and not get their calls is Yao Ming. He always doesnt get fouled, but sometimes when its an obvious foul, he still doesnt get it. Atleast him and Kobe don't cry like Rasheed Wallace or Gary Payton would. What I mean is that a player shouldn't cry over ever call because refs aren't going to give it to you all the time, but like when its an obvious foul, you have all the right to cry. But again, how does crying to the refs going to help, its not like they are going to reverse the call or anything.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Ever watched Dwyane Wade? Dirk? Tim Duncan? a lot of stars complain. Kobe might not be the quickest back on D but singling him out is dumb.</div> Yep, I've seen these people complain about calls but I haven't seen them do it as consistently as Kobe (Tim was starting to sink to this level in the playoff last season). And don't get me wrong, it's out of respect for his game that it bothers me so much. And it only seems recent. Like after the surgery. Before, he'd think he was fouled.....and then take it out on the other team. <div class="quote_poster">kobe4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Sabretooth is a whiner himself that's why jk man.... but seriously no need to single out KB man...only players that play with passion for the games, would whine and that is usually the best player </div> First of all, you are mentally sick if you don't think I like emotion. I can't stand the fact that a basic "I got fouled" or "And 1" is enough to give someone a "T" in todays game. And refs are so thin-skinned that, if you look at them wrong, they can "T" you. That's why I like Dick Bavetta and Joe Crawford because I've seem them get in shouting matches with players. Like I stated before. He is too high a caliber player to CONSISTENTLY do it. Remember in the playoffs when Duncan was contesting almost every call and people got on his case because he is better than that. Del Harris came out and said this and it is true. Am I saying not to let it be known that you felt you were fouled. No. But it's in how you present it. I've seen a number of players run back on D, call the ref and gesture to his head or make a chopping motion on his arm and go back to business. Then at the dead ball, go up to the ref and explain what they felt. I've seen a number of times when Kobe feels he was fouled, starts throwing fist in a "I got @#*$ing fouled and you know it", trails while yelling at the ref (if there was a cliff, he'd run off it because he is concentrating so much on the ref), is on D and still gesturing like he got fouled and if the opposition makes a shot, he's talking to the ref during the inbound and if they get the ball, he's looking at the ref while getting back to offense. <div class="quote_poster">AKIRA Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">F!@# you! thats what i say, do you even know what he is saying? most of the time he approaches the ref and politely discusses the call, ive watched him for years he always respects the ref......</div> And in your world, when Kobe drives to the lane does lightening come out of his shoes and every non-Laker player looks like demons while Kobe sprouts angels wings? Get a grip on reality, put away your #24 jersey with the heart on it, and take a step back. You act as if I don't like Kobe. I honestly do on the court for the most part. If you've checked my past post I've stated why I like his game. Everyone on list of faves I can find fault with but when <u>you</u> get to the point of seeing a player as a god who makes no mistakes, the conversation is over. <div class="quote_poster">Will637 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Anybody see Antoine Walker whine? His facial expression looks like he's about to break down into tears, lol.</div> I don't know why but he looks like someones grandparent (choose whichever gender). Oh yeah, Sam Cassell is on another planet with his chatter with the refs...but he's ALWAYS talking to them. He's on the bench talking to them. And also, his game is totally different than Kobe's where Kobe will drive into a clogged lane and expect the ref to see everything. Cassell is on the perimeter so it's easier to judge. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brian:</div><div class="quote_post">Um, did you guys see last nights game against the Rockets (on ESPN). You tell me who wouldn't be whining when they are given calls like that. Kobe was fouled mulitiple times driving to the basket, but the refs continue to give him no-calls</div> I believe I know which one you're talking about. I remember him driving late in the game (I can't recall if it was the 1st or 2nd OT), but all you saw were him and a bunch of arms swiping at the ball. I believe he should've been given the call. But what about when there is Ming and 3 other Rockets in the paint, Kobes drives baseline and the Rockets stand their ground. Kobe twirls around for a flip shot over his head (because his back is totally facing the basket) and gets irate because a foul wasn't called?
<div class="quote_poster">Umair Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I wouldn't say Kobe cries, but he does get fouled. If you drive in 100 times, you aren't going to get all 100 calls, so you have to live with it. Another player that I see get fouled a lot and not get their calls is Yao Ming. He always doesnt get fouled, but sometimes when its an obvious foul, he still doesnt get it. Atleast him and Kobe don't cry like Rasheed Wallace or Gary Payton would. What I mean is that a player shouldn't cry over ever call because refs aren't going to give it to you all the time, but like when its an obvious foul, you have all the right to cry. But again, how does crying to the refs going to help, its not like they are going to reverse the call or anything.</div> Perfect example. I've seen Yao absolutely pummeled on multiple levels (Center will push his hip while a help defender is trying to block the shot from behind ). But you may recall this. The Rockets were playing the Timberwolves and were making a push late in the 4th. Yao dunks on Griffen and is immediately hit with a "T" for taunting. Then they showed the replay and all he did was dunk, turn around, and go back. Given I couldn't hear anything said, but the camera was on Yao's face, so he would have had to have been an excellent voice thrower because I saw NOTHING. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">Yea, I find his whining annoying, too. But, while its annoying, he's not the worst player that begs for those superstar calls. Vince Carter is the worst, IMO.</div> I don't consider Carter the same caliber as Kobe.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">“I feel that its not fair. I can only shoot 8 free throws yesterday and 6 today and they just let their big guy keep pushing me. I would say Kwame Brown and Andrew Bynum could be fouled 10 times already in tonight’s game and yesterday also. That’s not fair. I know I’m big, but that’s not my fault. I have two hand push on my back and they keep pushing while im going to shoot the ball and they don’t foul upstairs. No foul on my hands but they foul on my body. I shot only six free throws from my position. I know that’s not right. I hope the league and somebody could help us with this. Show them the film, its not just one or two games, its been a couple of weeks already.”</div> Here is what Yao said about last night's game. Remember what happened 2 years ago when Rockets played Dallas in the post season. Yao Ming did not get any of his calls in that series. And all of the Rockets fans were pissed. And eventually JVG argued with the refs and got a fine. Yao Ming never really got his calls, and I think its due to his size. The guy is so big, and that is something that I think takes his calls away.
<div class="quote_poster">Sabretooth Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Perfect example. I've seen Yao absolutely pummeled on multiple levels (Center will push his hip while a help defender is trying to block the shot from behind ). But you may recall this. The Rockets were playing the Timberwolves and were making a push late in the 4th. Yao dunks on Griffen and is immediately hit with a "T" for taunting. Then they showed the replay and all he did was dunk, turn around, and go back. Given I couldn't hear anything said, but the camera was on Yao's face, so he would have had to have been an excellent voice thrower because I saw NOTHING.</div> All he did was give out a short yell. The ref that gave him the technical was f'ing retarded. Later in the same game, KG was jumping up and down and yelling much more. No technical, because Garnett is allowed to be emotional while Yao isn't. And against the Lakers, in the closing minutes Smush actually cusses at the ref and flicks his head band to the ground and no technical is given. I swear, I bet there's a huge homecourt bias with these "respect the game" technical fouls. It should be called "discredit the game", because that's what it is.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">And against the Lakers, in the closing minutes Smush actually cusses at the ref and flicks his head band to the ground and no technical is given. </div> I do recall that and I remember the commentators saying the same thing (may be a technical coming), but nothing there. The problem with this rule is this, there is no consistency because it's discretionatory. True, players have to adapt, but would'nt be easier if the rule states "If you do _, this is what will happen" as opposed to "If you do _, but there are more than 87,896 viewers watching, this is what will happen"? Or "If you do _, but one of the refs favorite reality stars got voted of, this will happen"?
I agree with Durvasa. It is really not fair when other players go out of handle and still not get a technical. Remember when Yao Ming got his first technical? He dunked on someone and he screamed at him (in a positive way after a slam) and he got a technical. Not just this year, but Yao has always gotten called a "T" for little things. Its not fair when he does little things and get a technical while other players take off their headbands and yell and still dont get a technical.
<div class="quote_poster">Umair Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Here is what Yao said about last night's game. Remember what happened 2 years ago when Rockets played Dallas in the post season. Yao Ming did not get any of his calls in that series. And all of the Rockets fans were pissed. And eventually JVG argued with the refs and got a fine. Yao Ming never really got his calls, and I think its due to his size. The guy is so big, and that is something that I think takes his calls away.</div> But you notice that he never just stopped playing or diverted his attention towards the officials. He finished the game, voiced his displeasure, and adds that, if there is anything needed to validate his opinion (footage and such), he can get it. But on the court his is a professional. And also like I stated before, refs are humans and can miss things, just bring it to their attention and ask that they watch for such and such and go about your business.
Last night when Kobe was called for a foul after he blocked Yao's shot, he said to the ref, "That was all f'ing ball" right before the ref was about to say something Kobe said "You better not call an f'ing technical" LOL. I admit Kobe does work for a lot of calls, but there's plenty of times when he gets hammered and doesn't get a call. I read those comments by Yao, and I don't agree with them at all. Yao got away with several over the backs last night, and also wasn't called for a foul when Kobe scored a layup and Yao hit him from behind. The superstars have been getting calls throughout the history of the league. It's one of the reasons a lot of basketball heads prefer the college game. We all know NBA officials are some of the worst officials in all the major sports. They are inconsistent from quarter to quarter, they constantly make matters worse with the "make up call" and they give the stars the benefit of the doubt.
All I know is Yao doesn't get as many calls as he deserves or doesn't get the total "superstar/allstar" treatment like Kobe, Wade, and others do.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">All I know is Yao doesn't get as many calls as he deserves or doesn't get the total "superstar/allstar" treatment like Kobe, Wade, and others do. </div> I'll have to agree....6 FTs isn't enough attempts for a guy that gets beat on like Yao night in and night out....the guy even has scratch marks on his arm.
Yao definitely should have shot more free throws last night. He had 35 shot attempts, and only 6 trips to the line. To Yao's credit, his footwork is so fundamentally sound, he gets wide open shots and the defender isn't in a position to foul him anymore. He also shots a lot of fadeaway jumpshots, after his initial move, in contrast, most big men will try to get closer to the basket for a dunk and initiate more contact. Yao's ability to shoot the fadeaway, again, doesn't allow him to initiate contact because he creates space from the defender.
<div class="quote_poster">Pakman Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">All I know is Yao doesn't get as many calls as he deserves or doesn't get the total "superstar/allstar" treatment like Kobe, Wade, and others do.</div> Kobe doesn't get the "superstar treatment." Remember last season? I think there was a span of about 10 games where no matter how hard Kobe got fouled, the refs refused to call a foul. There are many refs around the league that absolutely hate Kobe, and will never give him a foul call no matter what
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe doesn't get the "superstar treatment." Remember last season? I think there was a span of about 10 games where no matter how hard Kobe got fouled, the refs refused to call a foul. There are many refs around the league that absolutely hate Kobe, and will never give him a foul call no matter what </div> name them....lol...Kobe is up there with Wade, Bron, Duncan, Iverson and Dirk as far as guys who get the benefit of the whistle....they deserve their freethrows some of the time, but there's also instances where the refs bail them out.
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">He also shots a lot of fadeaway jumpshots, after his initial move, in contrast, most big men will try to get closer to the basket for a dunk and initiate more contact. Yao's ability to shoot the fadeaway, again, doesn't allow him to initiate contact because he creates space from the defender.</div> He gets fouled a lot on those fadeaways though. Defenders push him in the back as he's going into his motion. And he got blatantly fouled on a potential game winner at the end of the first overtime.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Last night when Kobe was called for a foul after he blocked Yao's shot, he said to the ref, "That was all f'ing ball" right before the ref was about to say something Kobe said "You better not call an f'ing technical" LOL. </div> LOL that reminds of Bill Simmons' story about Iverson glaring down the ref and forcing him to swallow his whistle. I don't care how much people bash Kobe's "superstar call" status, he isn't half as loved as Wade by the refs.
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> 1 - I admit Kobe does work for a lot of calls, but there's plenty of times when he gets hammered and doesn't get a call. 2 - The superstars have been getting calls throughout the history of the league. It's one of the reasons a lot of basketball heads prefer the college game. 3 - We all know NBA officials are some of the worst officials in all the major sports. They are inconsistent from quarter to quarter, they constantly make matters worse with the "make up call" and they give the stars the benefit of the doubt.</div> Just to add to my thread....it's partially the NBA's fault for letting him get away with it. 1 - My problem is the way that he "complains". Because the league comes out with this "We have no tolerance" rule and people are ridiculously T'd up. They start to loosen up and mostly T if it's warranted......or in Sheed's case....if he speaks to them. Then Kobe does an extreme version of what the rule is for and they swallow the whistles. It makes the league look bad because they are allowing the multi-million dollar superstar berate the official and it's ok. 2 - I just started watching a couple of College games and was like "yeah....YEAH....that's how you box out ......THAT is a foul ..... . 3 - Or what about the "if the ball goes in it's not a foul but if it doesn't here comes the whistle" call. Commentators always say "it either is or is not a foul". <div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe doesn't get the "superstar treatment." Remember last season? I think there was a span of about 10 games where no matter how hard Kobe got fouled, the refs refused to call a foul. There are many refs around the league that absolutely hate Kobe, and will never give him a foul call no matter what</div> <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">He gets fouled a lot on those fadeaways though. Defenders push him in the back as he's going into his motion. And he got blatantly fouled on a potential game winner at the end of the first overtime.</div> You would have to think that it would be kinda difficult to see subtle nudges on the body when someone is going into a fade-away shot. Have I seen blatant "two-hand shoves"? Yes. But I've also seen subtle nudges that some would feel is part of the game in post play. Did you see the Mutumbo hand on the hip of Bynum that effected his leap in the post? I've seen things like that which I don't think is always filled with malice or intentional. It's like if your hand was there when he started his move and you're using your other arm for the shot block. Like coincidental contact.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't care how much people bash Kobe's "superstar call" status, he isn't half as loved as Wade by the refs.</div> lol.....go watch game 6 of the 02 WCF and tell me that Kobe isn't loved by the officials....there's no ranking system when it comes to some superstars on who the officials love more..
