[Injury] Yao out at least 6 weeks with leg fracture

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Did u read my posts? YAO GETTIN HURT IS NEVER A GOOD THING. Regardless if it's early or late in the season.

Not to bring up old news, but if we'd actually pursued an PF/C instead of bein cheap and playin Chuck Hayes we'd be in a better situation. That's the bad part of playin an undersized center. Now we're stuck.</div>
...

Unbelieveable.

 

Hopefully, Yao will continue his trend of coming back better after every injury. I am not too worry about the post-injury Yao.

I hope that T-Mac can step up offensively when he gets back. Considering how he has shot this season, it's hard for me to optimistic that he will be able to get his 30 points efficiently. Luckily, we have Bonzi, and hopefully, Battier steps up offensively like he did in the last game.

Also, does anyone think T-Mac has really bad luck that rubs off on his teammates? Here's what makes me think so.

-T-Mac drafted by the isolated NBA town of Toronto
-T-Mac and Grant Hill sign with Magic. The beginning of Grant Hill's never-ending string of injuries.
-T-Mac at the helm of Magic team that started 1-19
-T-Mac signed with Houston, which meant the end for Yao. Yao played every game his first two seasons. In T-Mac's first season, Yao missed 2 games. Last year, Yao missed 25 games. This year, games missed still undetermined.
-Last year, Houston Rockets were a MASH unit.
-Bobby Sura still has not recovered from T-Mac's arrival.
-Twice, once with the Magic and once with the Rockets, T-Mac's team had convincing leads in a playoff series only to lose.
-T-Mac's own back problems
-Someone said that T-Mac has lost a close friend or family member every year he has been in the NBA.

Feel free to add anything to this list. Good thing I don't believe in curses or bad luck. Otherwise I would have no hope for the the future of Rockets basketball with T-Mac on the team.

 

^The Bambino Curse was proven bull 2 years ago, after that I wouldn't think much of sport's curses. However, didn't T-Mac have a lead with Toronto in the playoffs?

This is a very sad time to be a Rockets fan. I want to be an ass and say just tank since we are trying to "win now," and this season seems like it wont be our year...what's the point of trying to get 8th seed and getting swept by the Spurs in the first round? I guess it shouldn't make a difference who we play first if we are going for the whole shebang. Worst case scenario would be to barely miss the playoffs and be stuck with the 21-22 pick.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Locke Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">...

Unbelieveable.</div>

Chucky Hayes 6'6
Juwan Howard 6'8
Mutumbo 7'1
Shane Battier '6'8
Steve Novak 6'10

The only player in the that bunch that can really play center is Mutumbo, and he's only good about 10mins a game. As I stated earlier in the season, Hayes is entirely too small to start at center. If we'd picked up PF/C we'd be a little more flexible. Now we're screw'd. It really is UNBELIEVABLE

 

Everyone always says how Houston is one of the team's to beat in the West but it never seems to materialize. I think this is the Houston curse. It never fails. Yao and T-mac never play together for a full season. I'd really like to see a full healthy season for the two of them, so we can all see what they are really all about.

<div class="quote_poster">igotask8board Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">^The Bambino Curse was proven bull 2 years ago, after that I wouldn't think much of sport's curses. </div>

lol. Yeah, 80+ years later. If your willing to wait that long, thats fine with me.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Chucky Hayes 6'6
Juwan Howard 6'8
Mutumbo 7'1
Shane Battier '6'8
Steve Novak 6'10

The only player in the that bunch that can really play center is Mutumbo, and he's only good about 10mins a game. As I stated earlier in the season, Hayes is entirely too small to start at center. If we'd picked up PF/C we'd be a little more flexible. Now we're screw'd. It really is UNBELIEVABLE</div>
Who ever said that Chuck Hayes would start at center? Just like last year when Yao was out, Mutombo started at center, and hell, he even gave us a few good games there. It just seems to me like you're out to get Hayes, no matter what he does. Yao gets injured? It's Chuck Hayes' fault he's 6-6, therefore he can't start at center. C'mon, why isn't it Juwan's fault? Hayes already has his power forward spot, it'll be logical to think the starting center will come off the bench.

Merry Christmas everyone, btw.

 

what about the madden curse? It has taken effect for past 3 years.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Locke Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Who ever said that Chuck Hayes would start at center? Just like last year when Yao was out, Mutombo started at center, and hell, he even gave us a few good games there. It just seems to me like you're out to get Hayes, no matter what he does. Yao gets injured? It's Chuck Hayes' fault he's 6-6, therefore he can't start at center. C'mon, why isn't it Juwan's fault? Hayes already has his power forward spot, it'll be logical to think the starting center will come off the bench.</div>
At the begginning of the season we had a choice to either a)get a young athletic powerfoward who can switch back over to center or b)stick with an undersized Chuck Hayes at PF/C. If we had picked up a 6/11 PF we wouldn't be stuck in the position we're in right now. You saw how bad we looked with Hayes at Center. We have Mutumbo, but who's gonna back him up?

We're in desperate need of an athletic big.................

 

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">At the begginning of the season we had a choice to either a)get a young athletic powerfoward who can switch back over to center or b)stick with an undersized Chuck Hayes at PF/C. If we had picked up a 6/11 PF we wouldn't be stuck in the position we're in right now. You saw how bad we looked with Hayes at Center. We have Mutumbo, but who's gonna back him up?

We're in desperate need of an athletic big.................</div>
Well, why not blame Juwan for not being able to play center too? My gripe with you is that you seem to bash everything Hayes can't do, yet is willing to overlook the same thing for Howard.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Locke Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well, why not blame Juwan for not being able to play center too? My gripe with you is that you seem to bash everything Hayes can't do, yet is willing to overlook the same thing for Howard.</div>
Howard has outplayed Hayes so far this season, so go figure. Hayes is a good rebounder, but he's entirely too undersized and doesn't have the tools to have any offense. 95% of everything i said about him before the season is comin to the light now. With Yao out temporarily, we should have a young bigman waitin on the bench. But we chose to go with Hayes, and it came back and bit us in the ass. We're back to where we were when we had Clarence Weatherspoon in the line up (which proved to be unsuccessful). JVG's philosophy of playin undersized PF's isn't gonna win long term.

I'm not a fan of unathletic undersized players, similar to David Wesley. If we left it up too some of you, we'd STILL have David Wesley. Why? Cuz he plays hard

 

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Howard has outplayed Hayes so far this season, so go figure. </div>

Except he hasn't. Go figure.

And comparing Chuck to David Wesley is ridiculous. Wesley was old and terribly inefficient. He was also too slow to be an effective defensive player. The Rockets have consistently played better with Chuck on the court since he's been here compared to Juwan. And Chuck's individual per minute numbers have also exceeded Juwan's.

I have no idea what your criteria are when you say Juwan is outplaying Chuck. My suspicious is you've already decided that Juwan is better than Chuck because Juwan's a better shooter and Chuck is small. Consequentially, you ignore or minimize the importance of everything else in their respective games and only focus on things that validate the conclusions you've already made.

But ANYWAYS, that discussion isn't for this thread.

 

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Except he hasn't. Go figure.</div>
Except he has. In the last 12 games (in which he's got good mins) Juwan Howard is roughly givin us 9pts & 6rebs. Hayes is at 4pts & 7rebs. I know ur +/-/?/<>*/ stats might say differently but here's where watchin the game tells the story. In the 4th quarter, Howard has played HUGE and hit some BIG shots for us. He's rebounded well, shot well, and hit his free throws. All the while, Hayes doesn't really play down the stretch due to his lack of offense & inability to say outta foul trouble (like I stated would eventually happen). Conclusion, Howard is overrall better player.


<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">And comparing Chuck to David Wesley is ridiculous. Wesley was old and terribly inefficient. He was also too slow to be an effective defensive player. The Rockets have consistently played better with Chuck on the court since he's been here compared to Juwan. And Chuck's individual per minute numbers have also exceeded Juwan's.</div>
Not according to ur good friend Locke, who thinks Wesley was a great defender and actually played Stackhouse well (after he killed us in the playoffs). Actually Howard & Hayes's individual stats are about the same, with Chuck havin a slight rebounding edge. But keep in mind, Howard didn't play much early in the season. When givin a chance to play, the numbers aren't even close. Plus, Howards role in 4th quarters have been pivotal to us winning. He's been very reliable down the stretch, which i expected him to be.

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I have no idea what your criteria are when you say Juwan is outplaying Chuck. My suspicious is you've already decided that Juwan is better than Chuck because Juwan's a better shooter and Chuck is small. Consequentially, you ignore or minimize the importance of everything else in their respective games and only focus on things that validate the conclusions you've already made.</div>
Watch the game for a change, maybe you'll agree with me every once n awhile.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Not according to ur good friend Locke, who thinks Wesley was a great defender and actually played Stackhouse well (after he killed us in the playoffs). Actually Howard & Hayes's individual stats are about the same, with Chuck havin a slight rebounding edge. But keep in mind, Howard didn't play much early in the season. When givin a chance to play, the numbers aren't even close. Plus, Howards role in 4th quarters have been pivotal to us winning. He's been very reliable down the stretch, which i expected him to be.
</div>Dude, Wesley played Stackhouse two seasons ago. At the time, he was very much the best perimeter on the team. Last season was somewhat different because of his knee injury, but I never blew him up like you did Juwan Howard.

I've argued it millions of times, and I still stand by that comment. Stackhouse shot 40.3% in that series; but you'll probably overlook that because that's what you always do with stats that go against your argument.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Locke Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Dude, Wesley played Stackhouse two seasons ago. At the time, he was very much the best perimeter on the team. Last season was somewhat different because of his knee injury, but I never blew him up like you did Juwan Howard.</div>
Howard is a key to this team bein successful. On a team that thrives itself on defense, it's nice to have somebody who can hit a jumpshot Anybody who's seen that series knows that Stackhouse absolutley destroyed us. The reason I bring it up is to show that undersized players who aren't athletic aren't good for teams competing for championships, so I used David Wesley being that we were NEVER going anwhere with him. But yet, ppl praised him just like they're praising Hayes.

<div class="quote_poster">Locke Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I've argued it millions of times, and I still stand by that comment. Stackhouse shot 40.3% in that series; but you'll probably overlook that because that's what you always do with stats that go against your argument.</div>
But he he killed us! Anybody who watched that series knows that. Playin undersized with no atheticism is a recipe for disaster.

 

Rock4Life, I'll respond to these points, but if you want to carry the discussion further you should do it in the Juwan vs Chuck thread.

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Except he has. In the last 12 games (in which he's got good mins) Juwan Howard is roughly givin us 9pts & 6rebs. Hayes is at 4pts & 7rebs. I know ur +/-/?/<>*/ stats might say differently but here's where watchin the game tells the story. In the 4th quarter, Howard has played HUGE and hit some BIG shots for us. He's rebounded well, shot well, and hit his free throws. All the while, Hayes doesn't really play down the stretch due to his lack of offense & inability to say outta foul trouble (like I stated would eventually happen). Conclusion, Howard is overrall better player.
</div>

I see you've decided to go back to look at per game stats, now that Juwan is playing more minutes again (of course, in November when Chuck was playing more minutes that would have been unfair). And, of course, we'll focus on the last 12 games when Juwan has finally started putting some good games together, and ignore the first month when Chuck was far more effective. Your double standard is so blatant, it's almost funny.


But, fine, let's just look at the last 12 games. What have they done, per 25 minutes?

<div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/>mpg pts/25orb/25ast/25to/25 TS% drb/25stl/25blk/25<br/>Chuck 22.64.7 3.5 0.8 1.3 52.0% 4.3 0.5 0.1<br/>Juwan 27.18.3 1.4 0.6 1.3 55.6% 4.4 0.4 0.1<br/></div>

Clearly, Juwan has been a better scorer for us in the last month. You attribute that to Juwan's increased minutes. That's part of it. But Chuck's lack of scoring I think can largely be attributed to not having McGrady in the lineup the last several games. On the season, per 40 minutes Hayes scores 10.5 points on 56.5% shooting with McGrady on the court (305 minutes). Juwan scores only 9.1 points on 41.2% shooting with McGrady on the court (209 minutes).

On offense, scoring is part of the picture. Note that Chuck's offensive rebounding rate has been 2.5 times that of Juwan's. With all the bricks our guards (read: Rafer Alston) have been throwing up, that's hugely important.

But what these box score numbers don't convey is Chuck's superior defense. This is partially captured in +/- numbers. We're +54 in the last 12 games with Chuck on the court. We're +10 in the last 12 with Juwan (which is a huge upgrade over what we were doing in the first month, or all of last year).


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Not according to ur good friend Locke, who thinks Wesley was a great defender and actually played Stackhouse well (after he killed us in the playoffs). </div>

I can't speak for Locke. Wesley was a solid player for us a couple years ago. Last year, for the most part he was old, slow, and just not very good. Wesley and Chuck have completely different roles on our team, so I don't get that comparison at all.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually Howard & Hayes's individual stats are about the same, with Chuck havin a slight rebounding edge. But keep in mind, Howard didn't play much early in the season. When givin a chance to play, the numbers aren't even close. Plus, Howards role in 4th quarters have been pivotal to us winning. He's been very reliable down the stretch, which i expected him to be.</div>

You say that JVG has decided to go to Juwan more and more down the stretch. That's true. It's also worth mentioning that we've lost 5 of our last 7 games. If Juwan is a big reason why we're winning of late, it's at least equally true that he's a big reason we've been losing of late.

With Yao out of the lineup, we're going to need Juwan's scoring much more. I wouldn't be surprised if Juwan replaces Chuck in the starting lineup in some (if not most) games. That will (hopefully) give us some offensive firepower we wouldn't otherwise have, but I expect there will be a severe impact on our defense and rebounding as well.

With Yao and McGrady back, I think there's no question that Chuck should be starting. That starting lineup was leading the entire league in point differential (by a wide margin, in fact). It would be senseless to break that up when it was working so well.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Howard has outplayed Hayes so far this season, so go figure. Hayes is a good rebounder, but he's entirely too undersized and doesn't have the tools to have any offense. 95% of everything i said about him before the season is comin to the light now. With Yao out temporarily, we should have a young bigman waitin on the bench. But we chose to go with Hayes, and it came back and bit us in the ass. We're back to where we were when we had Clarence Weatherspoon in the line up (which proved to be unsuccessful). JVG's philosophy of playin undersized PF's isn't gonna win long term.</div>

Good point, bt who would hav thought Yao/Tmac get injuries ceaselessly?
simply to say, it's not JVG's fault for not stacking enough backup in PF or C's position. His obligation refers to combine existing players with his defense-first sys. guess thast's all he could normally think about, with both yao and Tmac stay healthy, we did our job quite well.None of us could ever figured out losing 2stars again. sure u can argue that we won't hav good C if risk happens.U are right cuz we did risk management poorly at last yrs break.Both of our frontcourt guys are undersized now. Bt i didn't see how u can over praised juwan while looking down on chuck, they are quite different type of players and i believe they could help us in different terms. juwan could be top scorer and a possible leader oncourt ,a verteran giving team exp ,setting good examples for our rookies,all of which have been proved since last season; chuck's rebounding skills offer us couple of 2nd chance to attack and protect our own,though i al be curious to watch if he could keep going without yao inside. He could still pick up fouls for other scorers bt needs to be cautious about times. considering his inarchieved type of def, he is capable of giving us more surprise. One of his advantages over juwan is his learning ability, just comparing how he did 2yrs ago and now, u wil see an totally different althetic power and thrivings to win. IMO As a young guy and blue colloar,he played for our future and certainly a essential part of our team.Now it's not like when juwan step in we could win and with chuck we couldn't. as long as juwan contribute score ,chuck give rebound, our match al go as planned. it maybe not propriate to dsicuss who are better, our managers need to think about a trade or makeup a undersized staring line.
besides,never underesitmate our benches, they could run and gun the same as other small ball teams did. what's more i am sure they had all learned how to denfend in JVG sys now. so i start to realize we still stand a chance to win, not too bad

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> watched that game tonight. Tough break for the Rockets. Unless TMac comes back soon and plays like he did in Orlando, the Rockets are gonna quickly fade from the playoff picture. Can we really expect Shane Battier to score 20+ points a night? He looked like he had a Duke flashback tonight.

Even then, the Clips found every way to nearly blow a gimme road win. Damn they needed AI in the worst way. Their entire team looks lethargic on both ends. And Ric Bucher of ESPN reported that veterans Mobley, Cassell & Maggette are discouraging the team from turning over the reigns to prodigy Shaun Livingston.

Any team out there want to make a trade?
</div>

I swear me and the rowdies were so pumped on Friday night...I mean we went into AT&T Center and heckled Spurs fans the whole game, marched out of their arena taunting their personnel, nearly got into a couple of fights on the river walk, etc.....THEN we get home Saturday and that sh#! happens to Yao, we need Tmac back soon or else we're going to be competing in the Greg Oden sweepstakes.

 

Hmmm Yao @ C, Oden @ PF...

That would become the best C/PF combo in the league

 

<div class="quote_poster">SkiptoMyLue11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Hmmm Yao @ C, Oden @ PF...

That would become the best C/PF combo in the league</div>

I was just telling my brother about that possibility.