<div class="quote_poster">Carter Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's between Lebron, Wade, and Kobe.</div> That added absolutely nothing to this discussion.
durvasa, Where do you get those stats from? Tim Duncan PPG 20.6 | RPG 10 | BPG 1.8 Shawn Marion PPG 20 | RPG 9.3 | BPG 1.7 Not that big of a difference if you ask me... Oh, and let's look at attempted shot's for both players. Marion 386 attemted shots Tim Duncan 410 attemted shots
<div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">durvasa, Where do you get those stats from? Tim Duncan PPG 20.6 | RPG 10 | BPG 1.8 Shawn Marion PPG 20 | RPG 9.3 | BPG 1.7 Not that big of a difference if you ask me...</div> Current Difference: Duncan can score at will and is the best interior defender in the NBA.
I might start some flaming but here it goes I am going with Dwayne Wade. Guys 4th year in the league, putting up MVP type stats, already won a championship. A proven winner. He won it before Lebron, Melo, Bosh. Give him some credit even though he did it with Shaq. Kobe did it with Shaq too, so... But Wade did a with an older Shaq and did a lot more to help Heat win that Kobe helped Lakers win. And it was Wade's 3rd year when he won the championship. Give the guy credit for winning a championship in his 3rd year leading his team to it. So, I i'll go with D-Wade.
<div class="quote_poster">Umair Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I might start some flaming but here it goes I am going with Dwayne Wade. Guys 4th year in the league, putting up MVP type stats, already won a championship. A proven winner. He won it before Lebron, Melo, Bosh. Give him some credit even though he did it with Shaq. Kobe did it with Shaq too, so... But Wade did a with an older Shaq and did a lot more to help Heat win that Kobe helped Lakers win. And it was Wade's 3rd year when he won the championship. Give the guy credit for winning a championship in his 3rd year leading his team to it. So, I i'll go with D-Wade.</div> You just made some very good points. I agree with you 100%
<div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">durvasa, Where do you get those stats from? Tim Duncan PPG 20.6 | RPG 10 | BPG 1.8 Shawn Marion PPG 20 | RPG 9.3 | BPG 1.7 Not that big of a difference if you ask me... Oh, and let's look at attempted shot's for both players. Marion 386 attemted shots Tim Duncan 410 attemted shots</div> Those stats aren't indicative of how good they really are. Duncan is playing 5 less minutes a game right now. That's not going to be the case in the playoffs. Also, the Spurs play at a much slower pace. That means less opportunities, even per minute, for players to collect "stats". When you adjust for those things, and take into account other measurables like blocks, steals, turnovers, missed field goals, missed free throws, etc. you come up with a metric called Player Efficiency Rating (or PER). It's like a more detailed version of the NBA.com Efficiency Rating. For PER stats and others, you can go here (click on a team or the league leaders link): http://knickerblogger.net/stats/2007/ A more detailed explanation of PER and how to calculate it is here: http://basketball-reference.com/about/per.html Marion is a very good player. Certainly he's an allstar, and he's probably underrated. But, sorry, I don't think he's in Duncan's league. Or Garnet's, for that matter. Beyond just the stats, Duncan brings certain intangibles to the table. He's a guy you can depend on to lead your team in a playoff series. I just can't say the same for Marion.
Yes, Duncan is great but he's not the best in the NBA. You can't even argue that. Also, Marion is in Duncan's league. The stats are very similar. Not better but similar.
I think right now the best player in the league is Dwyane Wade, he's showing us now that he can carry the team without Shaq. This season he's almost a 30/10 guy every night which is pretty damn impressive for being a 4th year shooting guard. Kobe's defense at the moment is horrific, Dwyane Wade just lit him up on Christmas day. I think Duncan needs to show what he can do without a great supporting cast around him because he's always had great players around him unlike Kobe, Wade, or Lebron. LeBron can be the best as well but he has yet to show he is as much of a leader as Wade. Steve Nash is an amazing point guard, but his defense sucks, and look at the guys he has around him? Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire are All Stars even without Nash giving them the ball. Kevin Garnett is also a guy you can make a case for because of his versatilty, but, the lack of a supporting cast has hurt him all throughout his career and he can thank a lousy front office for that.
Steve Nash make's players around him better. You can say look at the supporting cast but he make's that supporting cast better. If Nash was on the Laker you would be saying "look at the supporting cast, like Kwame Brown, Lamar Odom, and Luke Wlaton!" So, he make's them better. They don't make him better.
Tim Duncan has been the best player for the past 3 years or so. He is always underrated and people don't understand his value until they see him play consistantly. He is still "the man" as far as I'm concerned although the rest of the league has certainly caught up. Alot of that is due to Tim getting older. <div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, Duncan is great but he's not the best in the NBA. You can't even argue that. Also, Marion is in Duncan's league. The stats are very similar. Not better but similar.</div> I love Marion's game but no he isn't on the level of tim Duncan. Basing It all on stats is wrong. Duncan's impact is far greater than what Marion has ever brought to the floor. Until Marion gets double teams and even triple teams, don't even compare the two.
why is it that no one is saying iverson?? iverson could be the best little man of all time. there is not a chance that nash is the best player in the nba. he might be the most valuable to his team, but the best player? i dont think so. Top three players in the NBA right now are Kobe, Iverson, and KG. then it has to be tim duncan, dirk, wade etc...
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I love Marion's game but no he isn't on the level of tim Duncan. Basing It all on stats is wrong. Duncan's impact is far greater than what Marion has ever brought to the floor. Until Maron gets double teams and even triple teams, don't even compare the two. </div> I agree with you on the Marion point. Shawn is a great young talent but he is not in the same category as Duncan right now.As for the issue of drawing double and triple-teams, look at what Dwyane Wade is doing with defenses now focusing on him only because Shaq is out. I agree Duncan is a great player but I don't think he is the best in the league right now. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Steve Nash make's players around him better. You can say look at the supporting cast but he make's that supporting cast better. </div> It's a dual-effect IMO. He would not be getting those numbers without them and they wouldn't be doing as well without him. He's great but the best overal player in the league has to be Wade. He brings the scoring, the team game, starting to show some good defenseive skills, and most of all he is a great leader as well.
Allen Iverson? Are you serious? For a point guard he score's a lot but he doesn't play point guard. 6.2 assist a game isn't that good for a point guard and he can't win like Nash can. Yes, he's good but not the best.
Wade is truely GREAT but I find It hard to believe he is the best player in the NBA when many don't even consider him the best guard.
<div class="quote_poster">Playmaker15 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with you on the Marion point. Shawn is a great young talent but he is not in the same category as Duncan right now.As for the issue of drawing double and triple-teams, look at what Dwyane Wade is doing with defenses now focusing on him only because Shaq is out. I agree Duncan is a great player but I don't think he is the best in the league right now. </div> At this very moment, going by what I've seen this year, I'd say Duncan, KG, and Wade are the best players (however, if you discount Kobe's rehabilitation period, he's still in the discussion). As durvasa said, go to http://knickerblogger.net/stats/2007/jh_ALL_PER.htm, and you'll see that their PER is similar (it doesn't measure defense though). The difference is that Duncan and KG are better defenders (and also produce these stats in the West). Yao's not bad either but he was injured. Duncan: 26.6 PER (great interior defender) KG: 26.57 PER (good interior defender and can defend perimeter better than Duncan) Yao: 27.26 PER Wade: 28.35 PER And I'd also stick Kobe in there somewhere (I don't have his PER since he got back to being mostly healthy).
<div class="quote_poster">AllNet Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wade is truely GREAT but I find It hard to believe he is the best player in the NBA when many don't even consider him the best guard.</div> True, but some don't consider Duncan the best forward in the Western Conference with guys like KG and T-mac when he is healthy. Wade IMO is the best guard in the game right now because he is doing things other two-guards aren't which is getting almost 30/10 every game.
<div class="quote_poster">Playmaker15 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">True, but some don't consider Duncan the best forward in the Western Conference with guys like KG and T-mac when he is healthy. Wade IMO is the best guard in the game right now because he is doing things other two-guards aren't which is getting almost 30/10 every game.</div> Well, imo, I think 8.2 apg is in the ball park, but not super close to being 10 assists per game. Assists aren't as easy to come by as points. 29/8 is more appropriate to say (I'm sort of splitting hairs but whatever, it was bothering me).
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well, imo, I think 8.2 apg is in the ball park, but not super close to being 10 assists per game. Assists aren't as easy to come by as points. 29/8 is more appropriate to say (I'm sort of splitting hairs but whatever, it was bothering me).</div> Well you can call it what you like..28/8,29/8, 30/10 but those are still amazing numbers for a shooting guard in his fourth year in the NBA.
<div class="quote_poster">P.A.P. Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That added absolutely nothing to this discussion.</div> Well Lebron has been playing great and his team is winning games. He reminds people of a young Magic Johnson. His stats have decreased a little bit, but his team is one of the top teams in the eastern conference. Dwyane Wade has been playing great despite his team's losing record. He is one of the best players in the game today because of his unselfishness and will to take over games easily. And Kobe Bryant is one of the greatest in the game today because he can lead a team of nobodies to the playoffs and can score 50 on any given night. He is also more unselfish now and can take over games with his great passing.
