<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe is the best player in the league. The argument that he hasn't done it by himself is useless bein that he lead his team to the playoffs last year (when he wasn't supposed too) and this year his team has one of the best records in the league. Better records than Wade, Lebron, and I believe Carmello. End of discussion</div> I agree that the argument he hasn't done it by himself is kind of dumb, but I don't know where the "he wasn't supposed to make the playoffs" part came from. You act like they were some sort of cinderella story. Lots of people expected them to make the playoffs, and it would have been a huge dissapointment if they didn't. And saying Kobe is better because his team has a better record than Wade's ("end of discussion") is silly. The Lakers roster is superior when the Heat don't have Shaq (and considering how far Shaq has regressed, they might be better even when Shaq comes back). Case in point: in 373 minutes without Kobe on the court, the Lakers have outscored the opponent 770 to 759. In 307 minutes without Wade on the court, the Heat have been outscored 524 to 625.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe is the best player in the league. The argument that he hasn't done it by himself is useless bein that he lead his team to the playoffs last year (when he wasn't supposed too) and this year his team has one of the best records in the league. Better records than Wade, Lebron, and I believe Carmello. End of discussion</div> come on man, you need a better argument than that.
In my opinion: as far as stats go LeBron James, as far as intangibles Tim Duncan. That's just my opinion. Sure, Wade won a championship without a dominant Shaq but he isn't clutch. I've seen him miss a bunch of game winners in the regular season. I know in the championship he was killing so don't even say I didn't see him against Dallas. Carmelo is more clutch than him as far as I'm concerned.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sure, Wade won a championship without a dominant Shaq but he isn't clutch. I've seen him miss a bunch of game winners in the regular season. I know in the championship he was killing so don't even say I didn't see him against Dallas. Carmelo is more clutch than him as far as I'm concerned. </div> uhhh, you need to watch some game tape, dude has been clutch since he was a rookie.
Yeah I'm sure in his 61 games in his rookie season he was clutch. Man give me a break. He isn't a clutch player. He did destroy Dallas but that doesn't make him clutch. That just makes Dallas have a terrible defense. I'm telling you Carmelo is more clutch.
I'm not arguing about who's more clutch, but the guy has time and time again proved that he is clutch (in the post season and the reg. season), including doing it on the biggest stage in the finals.
well everyone misses shots in crunch time.....there were times when MJ didn't hit game winning shots, that doesn't mean he isn't clutch though.
<div class="quote_poster">CLos Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah I'm sure in his 61 games in his rookie season he was clutch. Man give me a break. He isn't a clutch player. He did destroy Dallas but that doesn't make him clutch. That just makes Dallas have a terrible defense. I'm telling you Carmelo is more clutch.</div> Wade hit a game winner in the playoffs as a rookie. His numbers in crunch time have been consistently better than Carmelo's the last few years. Carmelo might have hit more game winners, but how many times has he absolutely taken over in the fourth quarter? I've seen Wade do it numerous times. Plus, he's done it in the playoffs. If Carmelo's so clutch, I wonder why he's shooting 36% for his career in the playoffs with a 3-11 record.
How can you say Wade isn't clutch? Dude hit a game winner in the Garden two seasons ago. He's also hit game winners in the Playoffs. Carmelo might have more but like Durvasa said, Wade just takes over and gives his team leads at the ends so they dont need game-winners. When's the last time Melo scored 17 straight against your teams biggest rival to lead you back from a fourth quarter deficit?
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">come on man, you need a better argument than that.</div> hahaha, what a joke. When Kobe putting up huge number and his team aren't winning, people label him a ballhog. However, when his team is winning and he putting up mediocre number, people still deny to label him as the best. Wow, what can we say, let's make Sasha Vujavic as the best player in the league.
<div class="quote_poster">kobe4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">hahaha, what a joke. When Kobe putting up huge number and his team aren't winning, people label him a ballhog. However, when his team is winning and he putting up mediocre number, people still deny to label him as the best. Wow, what can we say, let's make Sasha Vujavic as the best player in the league. </div> There are players putting up better numbers (yes, even last year), and they are teams with better records so I don't get your point.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">There are players putting up better numbers (yes, even last year), and they are teams with better records so I don't get your point.</div> There were a couple of players with a PER that was decimal points higher than Kobe's, but neither play in the West nor have his defensive skills (however overrated they were). So while I'm not a fan of kobe4life's prose (in that last post of his at least), Kobe was indeed putting up monster numbers last year; arguably the best.
let's be honest, for people to consider Kobe as the best, he needs put up 30ppg, 8apg, 7rpg, 2spg, 1bpg, and his team needs to win at least 60 games. btw, I thought when you defining the best player that it is base on individual accompliment. Anyway, only 3 players that come to mind when taking the best player title, Kobe, LeBron, and Wade. I give Kobe the edge a little because of his defense. At his best, when he wants to, he can lock up anyone. But so far, I haven't see that this year yet. Maybe due to injury or who know, he's old? But until Lebron or Wade can prove they can do that, then I'll give them the edge. But right now, NO. Neither on of them can lock up their opponent in crucial moment thus far in their career.
<div class="quote_poster">Flow Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wasn't it Kobe Bryant who took his team to the playoffs and forced the Game 7 versus Suns last year ?</div> I wouldn't call that forcing game 7. I would call that choking and letting Suns win 3 in a row to knock you out of the playoffs. A round they could have won.
<div class="quote_poster">kobe4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">let's be honest, for people to consider Kobe as the best, he needs put up 30ppg, 8apg, 7rpg, 2spg, 1bpg, and his team needs to win at least 60 games. </div> Well, I don't know what you're talking about, but I was only referring to the "best" active player (at least last year). <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I wouldn't call that forcing game 7. I would call that choking and letting Suns win 3 in a row to knock you out of the playoffs. A round they could have won.</div> Uh right.. Teams choke, Kobe played well. Players have gone on to win many playoff series doing less for their respective team.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe is the best player in the league. The argument that he hasn't done it by himself is useless bein that he lead his team to the playoffs last year (when he wasn't supposed too) and this year his team has one of the best records in the league. Better records than Wade, Lebron, and I believe Carmello. End of discussion</div> No way in hell he is. He doesn't have a complete game like LeBron, Wade and Nash. His assist and rebounds aren't that good at all. Yeah, he can score a lot but scoring isn't everything. Also, you know theres something wrong when you can score over 50 points in a game and still lose. Kobes to blame for that. He needs to get the players around him involved, which he doesn't and thats part of the reason that they aren't up there with teams like the Spurs, Mavs, Suns, or maybe even the Nuggets.
<div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No way in hell he is. He doesn't have a complete game like LeBron, Wade and Nash. His assist and rebounds aren't that good at all. Yeah, he can score a lot but scoring isn't everything. Also, you know theres something wrong when you can score over 50 points in a game and still lose. Kobes to blame for that. He needs to get the players around him involved, which he doesn't and thats part of the reason that they aren't up there with teams like the Spurs, Mavs, Suns, or maybe even the Nuggets.</div> Kobe is the best plaer in the NBA right now, even if his assits are not accounted for he is the leader of the team and i thought we talked about this before, "he makes the pass that leads to an assist." Also kobe has 3 rings, even if they were with Shaq, that is still something, also he is the most clutch in all the players discussd in the best player talk.
<div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No way in hell he is. He doesn't have a complete game like LeBron, Wade and Nash. His assist and rebounds aren't that good at all. Yeah, he can score a lot but scoring isn't everything. Also, you know theres something wrong when you can score over 50 points in a game and still lose. Kobes to blame for that. He needs to get the players around him involved, which he doesn't and thats part of the reason that they aren't up there with teams like the Spurs, Mavs, Suns, or maybe even the Nuggets.</div> Why do you bring up scoring 50 points and losing? That happens to any great player. That's quite biased of you. Anyway, Kobe's overall PER was on par with that of Wade and Lebron last year (Kobe's scoring skills are so much more monstrous than either of the two; that allowed him to catch up in efficiency rating). Also, Nash has no buisness being mentioned in the top three (but as a weak MVP candidate: Sure ). I discussed some things with Durvasa, and noticed that Nash's PER last year was actually 25.5, not 23.2 because of a more complex and accurate calculation that is somewhat tedious to decipher. Given this, he still only ranked 8th in the league (behind Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Iverson, Dirk, KG and Brand). You should put an end to that Nash talk.
<div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> No way in hell he is. He doesn't have a complete game like LeBron, Wade and Nash. His assist and rebounds aren't that good at all. Yeah, he can score a lot but scoring isn't everything. Also, you know theres something wrong when you can score over 50 points in a game and still lose. Kobes to blame for that. He needs to get the players around him involved, which he doesn't and thats part of the reason that they aren't up there with teams like the Spurs, Mavs, Suns, or maybe even the Nuggets.</div> LeBron has scored 50+ three times in his career. The Cavs lost 2 out of 3.
