Lebron is NOT better than Kobe, niether is Wade. Their both good at what they do, but theres NOBODY better than Kobe. Wade is the closest one, but he's not touching Kobe. Especially now that the Lakers are winning. The excuse used to be that Kobe wasn't a winner, but now that he's calmed his game down ppl seem to forget that. Minus all the hype and silly commercials, Kobe wins this thread.
<div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No way in hell he is. He doesn't have a complete game like LeBron, Wade and Nash. His assist and rebounds aren't that good at all. Yeah, he can score a lot but scoring isn't everything. Also, you know theres something wrong when you can score over 50 points in a game and still lose. Kobes to blame for that. He needs to get the players around him involved, which he doesn't and thats part of the reason that they aren't up there with teams like the Spurs, Mavs, Suns, or maybe even the Nuggets.</div> Haha, don't make me laugh at you man . Also here's somthing you need to know, Michael Jordan scored a playoff record 63 points against the Boston Celtic in a losing effort. Even the GOAT can't win the game by himself, then I don't know what to say about your comment Also don't expect your man Steve Nash to carry a bunch of scrub players and expect the Suns to be an elite team either. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, I don't know what you're talking about, but I was only referring to the "best" active player (at least last year).</div> I don't know where you at, but I'm confidentally can say that I'm not directing at yo . Let's face it, last year, Kobe. This year? too hard to tell thus far. Maybe at the end of the season, it's not going to be Kobe. Probably D-Wade or Lebron if they can catch up with Kobe, and receive the notch on the All NBA Defensive team.
and maybe you disagree with me because your all Kobe fans Look, <u>Dwyane Wade</u> is the best player in the NBA by far. He is a team player along with a scorer.
<div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">and maybe you disagree with me because your all Kobe fans Look, <u>Dwyane Wade</u> is the best player in the NBA by far. He is a team player along with a scorer.</div> Kobe's "team" has a better record right now. Plus, they've been winning without their 2nd best player in Lamar Odom. Wade is an up & comin superstar, but he's not better than Kobe night in and night out.
<div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">and maybe you disagree with me because your all Kobe fans Look, <u>Dwyane Wade</u> is the best player in the NBA by far. He is a team player along with a scorer.</div> Well saying "by far" just isn't true. He certainly is doing well this season though.
<div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">and maybe you disagree with me because your all Kobe fans </div> Talk about hypocrite, you're the one bringing up pointless facts to bring down Kobe. Why did you mention 50 points? That was useless. You just like to ignore empirical evidence. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Look, <u>Dwyane Wade</u> is the best player in the NBA by far. He is a team player along with a scorer.</div> Well saying "by far" just isn't true. He certainly is doing well this season though.
<div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'm sorry but, without a doubt, the best is Dwyane Wade. He is the NBA Championship MVP and is a complete player. How many people can score 30 point's a game along with dishing out 10 assist? Nash can but not every night like Dwyane Wade. Also, some of the shot's he make's are unbelievable.</div> Big Wade fan huh? Wade has nice game, but he lacks the defensive presence that a true MVP needs (don't get me started on Nash)..Jordan was a terrific defender and his team could count on him on both sides of the court for big plays, not Dwyanes case. He's an average defender (although he's gets big block numbers every once in a while). and the 30/10 thing? Iverson. <div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, Duncan is great but he's not the best in the NBA. You can't even argue that. Also, Marion is in Duncan's league. The stats are very similar. Not better but similar.</div> How can you compare someone who people are already calling the greatest PF to ever play with someone who just started standing out in the last few years? Yes, they might have similar stats, but Duncan has his game together. I don't believe that he's slowed a step, he's just been allowed to hang back because the improvement of Tony Parker & Co. have lightened the load on his shoulders. That's like comparing Nash and Marbury. They have similar numbers, but who's going down in history? <div class="quote_poster">GiantMidget Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think you accidentally added Wade to this statement. Wade is a shutdown defender as well as an excellent help defender. Kobe's D is good, but Wade's D > Kobe's D</div> You're drunk right? Wade doesn't even guard the opposing team's superstar. They leave that up to Posey and Payton. Think I'm lying? Watch the Christmas game between Miami and LA. <div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No way in hell he is. He doesn't have a complete game like LeBron, Wade and Nash. His assist and rebounds aren't that good at all. Yeah, he can score a lot but scoring isn't everything. Also, you know theres something wrong when you can score over 50 points in a game and still lose. Kobes to blame for that. He needs to get the players around him involved, which he doesn't and thats part of the reason that they aren't up there with teams like the Spurs, Mavs, Suns, or maybe even the Nuggets.</div> Since when do LeBron, Wade, or Nash play any type of shutdown defense? Nash has Bell and Marion to back him up on the defensive end, but if he were assigned to guard somebody like Iverson or Gordon, he'd get torched. He's only effective on the offensive end, and, only when he's running at that. Maybe the reason Kobe's team isn't up there with the Spurs, Mavs, Suns, or Nugs is because he's the only bonafide superstar on the team, you need at least 2 to win a championship these days. Odom is nice and all, but only stat-wise. You can't compare him to Scottie Pippen or any other superstar's 'side-kick'. Add a pass-first PG (like Andre Miller), a solid defensive/rebounding big (like Camby) and a second scoring option and who's to say the Lakers wouldn't be right up there with those teams? <div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Look, <u>Dwyane Wade</u> is the best player in the NBA by far. He is a team player along with a scorer.</div> Why did you start this thread if you already knew the answer?
<div class="quote_poster">TheAnswer2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You're drunk right? Wade doesn't even guard the opposing team's superstar. They leave that up to Posey and Payton. Think I'm lying? Watch the Christmas game between Miami and LA. </div> Jordan didn't do that too often either. Particularly in the second threepeat, when the Bulls had Pippen and Harper to guard the opposing star perimeter players. Wade is their best perimeter defender though when he's not coasting. He made numerous great defensive plays in the playoffs last year, and the previous year.
<div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">and maybe you disagree with me because your all Kobe fans Look, <u>Dwyane Wade</u> is the best player in the NBA by far. He is a team player along with a scorer.</div> How can he be the best player in the league by far when his team has a record of 13-17 and is standing in at 9th in an extremely weak Eastern Conference. Not to mention the fact that Miami are 18th overall in the league, with teams like Golden State and Minnesota having a better record than them. LeBron is clearly doing a better job than Wade and the same goes for Carmelo Anthony.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wade is their best perimeter defender though when he's not coasting. He made numerous great defensive plays in the playoffs last year, and the previous year.</div> Like when?
<div class="quote_poster">TheAnswer2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Like when?</div> Against the Pistons, certainly. He did a better job on Hamilton than anyone else. Wade averaged 2.3 steals and 1.1 blocks per game in the playoffs last year. A merely "average" defender will not get those kind of numbers. Like I said, sometimes he coasts (like any great offensive player), but when he's focused he's a very good defender.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Against the Pistons, certainly. He did a better job on Hamilton than anyone else. Wade averaged 2.3 steals and 1.1 blocks per game in the playoffs last year. A merely "average" defender will not get those kind of numbers. Like I said, sometimes he coasts (like any great offensive player), but when he's focused he's a very good defender.</div> Is that really an accurate account of how well he plays defense? Does anybody have any numbers that can show how well the opposing superstar has done when Wade was D'ing them? Steals and blocks are great and all, but it doesn' show how many adjusted shots, or turnovers were forced.
kobe is the best in the league and i cant even believe that people would argue that right now especially after everything he did last season. yes, wade won a championship, but look at his team, slightly better than the lakers to say the least. I really hate how people judge a players ability by his teams record. theres alot of good people on bad teams. i.e. Iverson, Joe Johnson, Paul Pierce. etc. wade, lebron, and carmello soon will be the best in the league, but its still kobe, iversons, and kgs time.
<div class="quote_poster">TheAnswer2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Is that really an accurate account of how well he plays defense? Does anybody have any numbers that can show how well the opposing superstar has done when Wade was D'ing them? Steals and blocks are great and all, but it doesn' show how many adjusted shots, or turnovers were forced.</div> Do you ever watch Wade play? He nearly had 5 steals and 5 blocks in the Christmas matchup. That's "average" defense? Wade has the ability to guard the opposing team's superstar, but why would he when: a) he is one of the best in the league at getting weakside steals and blocks( for a guard) he is pretty much the only liable option for the Heat on offense with Shaq out. Why would they tire out their only threat on offense when Posey and Payton have both proven themselves to be capable defenders? Sure Kobe usually guards the other team's superstar, but that's because Walton and Smush are both uncapable of doing so. Don't you think Jackson would rather give his best offensive option more of an easy assignment on D? Unfortunately, the Lakers are just too weak when it comes to perimeter D. I can't help but laugh every time Laker fans fall back on their token rebuttle of "first team defense." Kobe really is an over-rated defender. Sure, in previous years he's been above average at D, but he's not a "lock-down" defender, and I'm probably not the only person who believes that Wade is in fact the better defender, especially this year. After seeing Kobe get torched time after time this year by Arenas, Wade and others, you're favourite argument is becoming obsolete, and is probably working against Kobe now, as wade has passed him in the defensive department. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe the reason Kobe's team isn't up there with the Spurs, Mavs, Suns, or Nugs is because he's the only bonafide superstar on the team, you need at least 2 to win a championship these days. Odom is nice and all, but only stat-wise. You can't compare him to Scottie Pippen or any other superstar's 'side-kick'. Add a pass-first PG (like Andre Miller), a solid defensive/rebounding big (like Camby) and a second scoring option and who's to say the Lakers wouldn't be right up there with those teams? </div> I could argue that Odom's probably a bigger star than Parker, who is the Spurs' best second star. Who's the Mavs' second star? Terry is better than Odom? Actually a pass-first pg like Miller would not fit well in the triangle where you need a shooter for a pg (which Miller is not) so you're wrong again. Sure Camby would be great for any team, but there is no way the Nugs are parting with him for anything less than Odom. Besides, Kwame is already a very capable interior defender. Camby won't bring much more scoring than Kwame, maybe less.
the best player is kobe to me right now ,the defense as been a little bad because he doensnt have his lateral moves back 100 percent but check out how many times he shut down another superstars in years past,for example last december dwayne wade scored only 15 points and kobe was guarding him this year was other person guarding kobe not wade.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I give Kobe the edge a little because of his defense. At his best, when he wants to, he can lock up anyone</div> when I think of great "lock up" defenders, Kobe Bryant doesn't come to mind, and that's even before the injury....Wade is just as good imo. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Jordan didn't do that too often either. Particularly in the second threepeat, when the Bulls had Pippen and Harper to guard the opposing star perimeter players. Wade is their best perimeter defender though when he's not coasting. He made numerous great defensive plays in the playoffs last year, and the previous year. </div> yessir, people who think Jordan always guarded the other teams best perimeter player are just kids who never saw him play......Pippen had to switch over and guard Magic Johnson in the 91 Finals, because Magic was getting Michael in foul trouble.
<div class="quote_poster">XSV Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Do you ever watch Wade play? He nearly had 5 steals and 5 blocks in the Christmas matchup. That's "average" defense? Wade has the ability to guard the opposing team's superstar, but why would he when: a) he is one of the best in the league at getting weakside steals and blocks( for a guard)</div> I watched the Christmas game, he had 4 steals, 4 blocks. Congrats. Allen Iverson averages over half a steal a game more than Dwyane Wade, do you consider him to be a lock down defender? I certainly don't, and he's my favorite player, he's average on defense. Jim O'Brien actually told Iverson during a game one time that he was the worst defending PG in the history of the game. So maybe AI had a bad game right? Same thing as Dwyane having a good game, it happens. The blocks I give Dwyane full credit for. He's the only guard in the top 40 in bpg. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> he is pretty much the only liable option for the Heat on offense with Shaq out. Why would they tire out their only threat on offense when Posey and Payton have both proven themselves to be capable defenders?</div> That's when I see the comparison to Jordan stops, do you think one of the greats would just sit back? Jordan had that hunger on both ends of the floor, Dwyane's is lacking on the defensive end. If he's perfectly capable, why should he hold himself back? Because he'll get tiiired? He's 24 years old! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sure Kobe usually guards the other team's superstar, but that's because Walton and Smush are both uncapable of doing so. Don't you think Jackson would rather give his best offensive option more of an easy assignment on D? Unfortunately, the Lakers are just too weak when it comes to perimeter D.</div> That's true, they don't have much in the way of perimeter D. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I can't help but laugh every time Laker fans fall back on their token rebuttle of "first team defense." Kobe really is an over-rated defender. Sure, in previous years he's been above average at D, but he's not a "lock-down" defender, and I'm probably not the only person who believes that Wade is in fact the better defender, especially this year. After seeing Kobe get torched time after time this year by Arenas, Wade and others, you're favourite argument is becoming obsolete, and is probably working against Kobe now, as wade has passed him in the defensive department.</div> Ok, but while you on the floor, realize that I'm not even a Laker fan. The only reason I'm debating is because you sitting there (on the floor) with a straight face and trying to tell me that Wade is a better defender than Kobe Bryant. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I could argue that Odom's probably a bigger star than Parker, who is the Spurs' best second star. Who's the Mavs' second star? Terry is better than Odom? Actually a pass-first pg like Miller would not fit well in the triangle where you need a shooter for a pg (which Miller is not) so you're wrong again. Sure Camby would be great for any team, but there is no way the Nugs are parting with him for anything less than Odom. Besides, Kwame is already a very capable interior defender. Camby won't bring much more scoring than Kwame, maybe less.</div> How do you figure Odom is even a star? He's the kind of player who's done well on bad teams. His stats have actually been on the decline the past three years. He's never averaged over 20 points a game. EDIT: He's never come close to averaging 20ppg. Miller's not a shooting point guard, you're right, but he's certaintly better than Smush Parker at every aspect of shooting than 3pters. So, you're wrong. Talk to ya later, friend.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ok, but while you on the floor, realize that I'm not even a Laker fan. The only reason I'm debating is because you sitting there (on the floor) with a straight face and trying to tell me that Wade is a better defender than Kobe Bryant. </div> Wade is a better defender than Kobe *and I'm wearing a straight face* <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How do you figure Odom is even a star? </div> Odom is a star player
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wade is a better defender than Kobe *and I'm wearing a straight face*</div> Maybe now that's true. Last year they were pretty much the same. They're both overrated defensively. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Odom is a star player</div> Not really, he plays many minutes (accumulates those stats), and thus this is why his offensive production is only at around 17 PER (not enough production per minute/possession to be considered a star). All Star PER is 22. He's just a solid second option.
The thing about Lebron though is he's so young. Another scary thing with Lebron is, at times it doesn't even seem like he's trying and he still put up amazing numbers. But right now, I'm going to have to go with Kobe.
