<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Odom is a star player.</div> I give up. You just won the debate with that miraculous statement.
Before Odom was injured he was putting up impressive numbers. You can't expect a player to do anything miraculous when they're playing with Kobe because of how much he needs the ball in his hands. Similar situation to Hughes who was a star before he began playing with Lebron who demands so many touches. Similar situations apply to Webber and Shaq, although both of their careers were already declining anyway.
<div class="quote_poster">XSV Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Before Odom was injured he was putting up impressive numbers. You can't expect a player to do anything miraculous when they're playing with Kobe because of how much he needs the ball in his hands. Similar situation to Hughes who was a star before he began playing with Lebron who demands so many touches. Similar situations apply to Webber and Shaq, although both of their careers were already declining anyway.</div> Odom has never generated all-star PER or more throughout his career. Hughes on the other hand, did have a breakout season in 2005, but I wouldn't be so quick to blame LeBron for his lack of production since Hughes has been injured quite a bit. And btw, Kobe only shot 19.7 times a game (and averaged 6 assists per game as well) in 2005 and Odom still only averaged 17.3 PER (or to put it another way, Odom is currently playing pretty much the same he has all of his career). Kobe has also been sharing the ball in the 06-07 season (especially since he had to shoot less due to his knee surgery), and once again, Odom was producing 17.5 PER...
<div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">and maybe you disagree with me because your all Kobe fans Look, <u>Dwyane Wade</u> is the best player in the NBA by far. He is a team player along with a scorer.</div> and I can say back to you that maybe you're a kobe hater, that's why you disagree . Look, your boy, Mr. Steve Nash scored ZERO point in one game last season, does that mean he shouldn't be a candidate for MVP? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I can't help but laugh every time Laker fans fall back on their token rebuttle of "first team defense." Kobe really is an over-rated defender. Sure, in previous years he's been above average at D, but he's not a "lock-down" defender, and I'm probably not the only person who believes that Wade is in fact the better defender, especially this year. After seeing Kobe get torched time after time this year by Arenas, Wade and others, you're favourite argument is becoming obsolete, and is probably working against Kobe now, as wade has passed him in the defensive department.</div> Maybe I should find you a tape of Kobe locking down Tmac or VC in past year for you. In fact, including D-Wade and Lebron too as well. Don't' make a mistake, Kobe's defense is pretty bad this year but that could be because of his knee injury or him getting slack off to conserve energy to help his team win. Anyway, Wade's defense is better than Kobe, don't make me laugh on that. He doesn't even have the ball, to stand up and guard Kobe in that Xmas matchup, something I'm disappointed in him. At least, give it a try or something like Kobe? C'com, you're a superstar, best player in the league, and you let Dwight White guarding Kobe, and then you went on to guard Luke? give me a break, that type of attitude will never make him getting the reputation as a great defender. The thing that separates MJ and Kobe from the rest is they always take the pressure of guarding the opposition best guard, even at the end of the day, they get torched for 40, 50. It's the effort that matter in the end.
David Thorpe, the skills coach on ESPN.com, was asked in a chat today if he thought Wade was currently the best in the league: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ryan (Kansas City): Is D-Wade the best player in this league? SportsNation David Thorpe: (12:18 PM ET ) I think so-fractions above Kobe and Dirk and KG. But let's wait until the end of the year. </div> He's a big Kobe fan too. Wrote a detailed scouting report praising his offense and defense earlier in the year. I know he was saying Kobe was the league's best early in the season.
<div class="quote_poster">kobe4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">and I can say back to you that maybe you're a kobe hater, that's why you disagree . Look, your boy, Mr. Steve Nash scored ZERO point in one game last season, does that mean he shouldn't be a candidate for MVP? Maybe I should find you a tape of Kobe locking down Tmac or VC in past year for you. In fact, including D-Wade and Lebron too as well. Don't' make a mistake, Kobe's defense is pretty bad this year but that could be because of his knee injury or him getting slack off to conserve energy to help his team win. Anyway, Wade's defense is better than Kobe, don't make me laugh on that. He doesn't even have the ball, to stand up and guard Kobe in that Xmas matchup, something I'm disappointed in him. At least, give it a try or something like Kobe? C'com, you're a superstar, best player in the league, and you let Dwight White guarding Kobe, and then you went on to guard Luke? give me a break, that type of attitude will never make him getting the reputation as a great defender. The thing that separates MJ and Kobe from the rest is they always take the pressure of guarding the opposition best guard, even at the end of the day, they get torched for 40, 50. It's the effort that matter in the end.</div> Did you even bother reading the rest of my post? Go back and read it, and you will see that it explains everything you have brought up.
<div class="quote_poster">XSV Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Did you even bother reading the rest of my post? Go back and read it, and you will see that it explains everything you have brought up.</div> Haha, I supposed you mean this right? "Sure Kobe usually guards the other team's superstar, but that's because Walton and Smush are both uncapable of doing so. Don't you think Jackson would rather give his best offensive option more of an easy assignment on D? Unfortunately, the Lakers are just too weak when it comes to perimeter D." Even when the lakers have a pretty solid perimeter defenders back in the good old day with Fisher, Fox, George, Kobe still steps up and guards the best perimeter players, especially when those guys are struggling to guard their opponents. For cryng out loud, I read it 10x times, and you implying that Kobe is not a lockdown defender, even in his past, that is hilarious. Man...you should watch more Kobe's tape.
I'll have to look beyond the PER, and say that Odom is a star player who is extremely important to the lakers offense, because a lot of the times he is the point forward who sets things up in the triangle....I don't think there are many players in the league who can do Odom's job in L.A.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'll have to look beyond the PER, and say that Odom is a star player who is extremely important to the lakers offense, because a lot of the times he is the point forward who sets things up in the triangle....I don't think there are many players in the league who can do Odom's job in L.A.</div> Well then you have a dubious argument. My point is that he is indeed important to the Lakers, but is not as efficient per minute as you believe (Example: He's averaging a 4.9:3.7 Assist/Turnover ratio). The Lakers also run the Triangle only a fraction of every game... You have a case to suggest he is a nice player (and that is what 18 PER equates to), but no real empirical data at all to suggest he is a star (not even those awkward plus/minus statistics other people use).
well by now you should know that I'm not much of "stats" person, I've always thought Odom had the talent of an allstar even when he was on the clippers.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">well by now you should know that I'm not much of "stats" person, I've always thought Odom had the talent of an allstar even when he was on the clippers.</div> Odom is alright but he's very overrated. He put's up okay numbers and can play PG to Center but he's not great like people say he is. A lot of people think he's better then Marion and other great NBA players. He's not that good but if you put him on the right team he might be.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">David Thorpe, the skills coach on ESPN.com, was asked in a chat today if he thought Wade was currently the best in the league: He's a big Kobe fan too. Wrote a detailed scouting report praising his offense and defense earlier in the year. I know he was saying Kobe was the league's best early in the season.</div> He also said Wade has taken a step back defensively this season in the same chat. I was also surprised he mentioned Wade as #1. To me Kobe is the obvious answer as best player in the NBA, eventhough he's not 100% and his defense has been atrocious thus far.
kobe is the best in the league hands down because is a leader scorer defender jumpshooter playmaker clutch performer and spectacular player and in his best day nobody excels better than him. if you dont believe me watch him play.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'll have to look beyond the PER, and say that Odom is a star player who is extremely important to the lakers offense, because a lot of the times he is the point forward who sets things up in the triangle....I don't think there are many players in the league who can do Odom's job in L.A.</div> A ballhandling SF? Let's see: Lebron, Iguodala, Garnett, Marion, R.Jefferson, Luke Walton.
yeah right the 2 mvp trophies are a gift you are ignorant if you think that last year nash was the real mvp and not kobe
<div class="quote_poster">Jorgito kb24 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">yeah right the 2 mvp trophies are a gift you are ignorant if you think that last year nash was the real mvp and not kobe</div> Kobe is the best offensive player in the NBA and has been for the past few years. Nash however is the ultimate leader. He's become the Brett Favre of the NBA. He is valuable as hell.
a real leader? a guy whit Marion, Amare Stoudamire, Bell, Barbosa ,Kurt Thomas, Diaw thats really a good team but you have to be the ultimate leader to lead to the playoffs a guys like smush, kwame,vujacic, cook,mckie that a lot of mediocre players kobe is a better leader Nash is better playmaker thats it, kobe is most valuable for his team.
<div class="quote_poster">Jorgito kb24 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">a real leader? a guy whit Marion, Amare Stoudamire, Bell, Barbosa ,Kurt Thomas, Diaw thats really a good team but you have to be the ultimate leader to lead to the playoffs a guys like smush, kwame,vujacic, cook,mckie that a lot of mediocre players kobe is a better leader Nash is better playmaker thats it, kobe is most valuable for his team.</div> It's true Nash has a better team overall, but if you asked everyone in the league who is a better leader Nash or Kobe there would be no question that Nash would be the winner of that argument.
