<div class="quote_poster">Laker_fan Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's pretty stupid to say go watch "one game" to see why a certain player is better.</div> If that were the case then everyone go watch last year's game against the Raptors and tell me who else in the league right now has scored even close to 81 points in a single game
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">A ballhandling SF? Let's see: Lebron, Iguodala, Garnett, Marion, R.Jefferson, Luke Walton.</div> Lebron is the only one on that list that I would consider a SF who can run an offense....Garnett is a PF and the rest can't run an offense like Odom. EDIT seriously Kobe's defense (along with the rest of the lakers D) has been flat out BAD this season....Kobe's defensive skills have declined, and now I'm questioning if he was ever a "great" defender to begin with....Shaq in his prime can make others around him good/great defenders......but my point isn't even about the past, it's about now, and the fact is Kobe has been LIT UP on numerous occassions this season...he's not a "top defender" right now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">A ballhandling SF? Let's see: Lebron, Iguodala, Garnett, Marion, R.Jefferson, Luke Walton</div> hmm.. weird list - Luke Walton and Josh Howard's ballhandling skills crap all over Igoudala's RJs and Marions. Those guys have a 1-dribble max. And since when has Garnett been a small anything?
I have no problem with someone claiming Kobe is best in the leauge (he's currently #2 on my list as of right now), but to say that Wade,Lebron,etc. aren't in his league is just flat out "dickriderish"......this is not Jordan in his prime when he was winning titles, this is still a guy who hasn't made it out of the first round without you know who, so this topic is open for discussion.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I have no problem with someone claiming Kobe is best in the leauge (he's currently #2 on my list as of right now), but to say that Wade,Lebron,etc. aren't in his league is just flat out "dickriderish"......this is not Jordan in his prime when he was winning titles, this is still a guy who hasn't made it out of the first round without you know who, so this topic is open for discussion.</div> Well, look at the roster surrounding Kobe Bryant. What do you expect him to do? You really think the roster can match up against teams like the Suns or the Mavs? Last season nobody expected us to beat the Suns, but we took them to 7 games in the playoffs. If it weren't for one offensive rebound, we would have advanced to the second round. If the Lakers were in the East, we'd be one of the top teams in the league. Give Dwayne Wade Kobe's roster and I guarentee he wouldn't do any better. Look at Wade in Miami. Last I checked, when Shaq went down Wade didn't do jack either, and Wade is playing in the Eastern Conference. His team should at least be in the playoff hunt.
The problem that I have and that I think some other people have is why does it seem that almost every Kobe fan is a fanboy with a crush who can't fault him for anything whereas fans of other players are just fans of that player and are more level-headed?
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The problem that I have and that I think some other people have is why does it seem that almost every Kobe fan is a fanboy with a crush who can't fault him for anything whereas fans of other players are just fans of that player and are more level-headed?</div> Can't speak for everyone, but I was merely defending my point. Thing is, you can't give me the bull crap about Kobe isn't a good player because he hasn't done anything without Shaq. Look at Kobe's supporting cast and tell me who can do any better. And don't tell me Dwayne Wade can magically carry this Laker squad to the Finals because he has been having problems himself with getting the Heat in the playoffs in the weak Eastern Conference. Wade hasn't done much better without Shaq
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Can't speak for everyone, but I was merely defending my point. Thing is, you can't give me the bull crap about Kobe isn't a good player because he hasn't done anything without Shaq. Look at Kobe's supporting cast and tell me who can do any better. And don't tell me Dwayne Wade can magically carry this Laker squad to the Finals because he has been having problems himself with getting the Heat in the playoffs in the weak Eastern Conference. Wade hasn't done much better without Shaq</div> I know what you're saying but the fact is that Kobe is not perceived by basically anyone as being as gifted in the area of making his teammates betters as some other players are - notably Steve and LeBron. The other problem is that since the Bulls were a championship team that was centered around the 2-guard being their best player, that is the bar that was set for Kobe to reach, which is unfair on Kobe but that's reality and that's how people will look at it. Shaq is considered by some to be the most dominant big man ever. When you're playing with him, that's going to be fun for a scorer like Kobe. Whether anyone else could do the same is speculation, but it could go either way. If Kobe and Nash switched teams, would their teams record be the same? I'm not so sure Nash would do better in L.A. than Kobe is doing, but I'm pretty sure that Kobe would not do as well in Phoenix as Nash is doing.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, look at the roster surrounding Kobe Bryant. What do you expect him to do? You really think the roster can match up against teams like the Suns or the Mavs? Last season nobody expected us to beat the Suns, but we took them to 7 games in the playoffs. If it weren't for one offensive rebound, we would have advanced to the second round. If the Lakers were in the East, we'd be one of the top teams in the league. Give Dwayne Wade Kobe's roster and I guarentee he wouldn't do any better. Look at Wade in Miami. Last I checked, when Shaq went down Wade didn't do jack either, and Wade is playing in the Eastern Conference. His team should at least be in the playoff hunt.</div> the point I was trying to make is that the guy hasn't done anything as the sole leader of his team, that either Bron or Wade hasn't done....therefore he isn't "running away" with the best player in the game title....and for the recored Kobe's supporting cast > Bron and Wades' supporting cast.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">the point I was trying to make is that the guy hasn't done anything as the sole leader of his team, that either Bron or Wade hasn't done....therefore he isn't "running away" with the best player in the game title....and for the recored Kobe's supporting cast > Bron and Wades' supporting cast.</div> Okay hold up ONE sec - Bron's supporting cast is way better than Kobe's. You're telling me that you'd rather have Lamar, Kwame, Luke, Bynum and Farmar than Z, Larry Hughes, Donyell, Varejao, Drew Gooden, Dave Wesley???? you lost me DreaM! Seems to me like LeBron has a much more well rounded group of guys around him and guys that come to play. But if you take Shaq out of the equation, Wade's supporting cast is probably not as good as Kobe's. Haslem and Posey do one thing really well, Payton should be playing in the over-35 league, Jason Williams is a bigger whiter version of Earl Boykins and Antoine Walker is a bad, bad terrible, awful basketball decision maker. I also think Dirk's supporting cast isn't all that great as people make out. Let's put it this way, Dirk doesn't have a 2nd banana as talented as Lamar Odom OR Larry Hughes. Nash's supporting cast on the other hand is SICK. Or is it Nash who makes them sick? I'm not sure.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The problem that I have and that I think some other people have is why does it seem that almost every Kobe fan is a fanboy with a crush who can't fault him for anything whereas fans of other players are just fans of that player and are more level-headed?</div> That because other fans are making a retard comment on Kobe that Kobe's fan have to jump outta their seat in response. Such comments like Kobe's team never got pass the 1st round or Kobe had never been a good defender despite throughout his career, he was in the 1st or 2nd all defensive team. Moremover, Kobe proved numerous times that he can shut down any players in the league when Phil needs it. Then again fanboys like THE DREAM, XSV, and others claimed Wade to be the best because of his final performance and it is consider last year. Yet even right now, they still say Wade is the best despite his team have a losing record while Kobe's team is winning. Not only that Wade's stat this year is still 1/2 level below Kobe. I just want to point out that if you are going to argue that Wade is the best, use either present or past record. Such as if you're using Wade as the best now, then use his record this year and not about his final performance. Vise versa, if you're using his past record, then use his final performance but also think of Kobe 35ppg, 81pts, 1st/1st all nba/defensive team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay hold up ONE sec - Bron's supporting cast is way better than Kobe's. You're telling me that you'd rather have Lamar, Kwame, Luke, Bynum and Farmar than Z, Larry Hughes, Donyell, Varejao, Drew Gooden, Dave Wesley???? you lost me DreaM! </div> Yes....Z = I'm over the hill and I need to retire, Snow = I couldn't hit an open jumpshot if my life depended on it, Marshall = inconsistent, Gooden = a pretty good role player, Wesley = LMAO,Hughes = a decent second option when he's actually healthy....Shaq = injured and over the hill, Walker = Yuck, and he's out of shape, Posey = out of shape, Haslem = good role player, Williams = inconsistent, Payton = over the hill...Odom,Walton,Smush,Bynum,Cook,Farmar,Evans, Radmanovic deficate all over Bron and Wades supporting cast.....Kobe actually does have good teammates that's why I think the Lakers (if they play better D) have a good shot at making it out of the west. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Dirk doesn't have a 2nd banana as talented as Lamar Odom OR Larry Hughes. </div> Josh Howard > Larry Hughes.......Howard and Terry are PLENTY good. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Then again fanboys like THE DREAM, XSV, and others claimed Wade to be the best because of his final performance and it is consider last year. Yet even right now, they still say Wade is the best despite his team have a losing record while Kobe's team is winning. Not only that Wade's stat this year is still 1/2 level below Kobe. I just want to point out that if you are going to argue that Wade is the best, use either present or past record. Such as if you're using Wade as the best now, then use his record this year and not about his final performance. Vise versa, if you're using his past record, then use his final performance but also think of Kobe 35ppg, 81pts, 1st/1st all nba/defensive team.</div> No my friend this is based off of THIS year......Wade has had crap next to him the whole year and we all know it.
<div class="quote_poster">kobe4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That because other fans are making a retard comment on Kobe that Kobe's fan have to jump outta their seat in response. Such comments like Kobe's team never got pass the 1st round or Kobe had never been a good defender despite throughout his career, he was in the 1st or 2nd all defensive team. Moremover, Kobe proved numerous times that he can shut down any players in the league when Phil needs it. Then again fanboys like THE DREAM, XSV, and others claimed Wade to be the best because of his final performance and it is consider last year. Yet even right now, they still say Wade is the best despite his team have a losing record while Kobe's team is winning. Not only that Wade's stat this year is still 1/2 level below Kobe. I just want to point out that if you are going to argue that Wade is the best, use either present or past record. Such as if you're using Wade as the best now, then use his record this year and not about his final performance. Vise versa, if you're using his past record, then use his final performance but also think of Kobe 35ppg, 81pts, 1st/1st all nba/defensive team.</div> So I guess Phil didn't really want him to shut down Arenas when he scored 60, or Wade on Christmas, etc,etc. Hold on a sec. Wade's stats are 1/2 that of Kobe's? Last time I checked, his "stats" were just as good if not better than Kobe's. If the Heat don't have a good record, it's probably because guys like Jason Kapono are key parts of the team due to injuries. Seriously, if not for Wade's brilliance, the Heat are the worst team in the league right now. BTW, LMAO at you calling me a fanboy. You epitomize the phrase.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yes....Z = I'm over the hill and I need to retire, Snow = I couldn't hit an open jumpshot if my life depended on it, Marshall = inconsistent, Gooden = a pretty good role player, Wesley = LMAO,Hughes = a decent second option when he's actually healthy....Shaq = injured and over the hill, Walker = Yuck, and he's out of shape, Posey = out of shape, Haslem = good role player, Williams = inconsistent, Payton = over the hill...Odom,Walton,Smush,Bynum,Cook,Farmar,Evans, Radmanovic deficate all over Bron and Wades supporting cast.....Kobe actually does have good teammates that's why I think the Lakers (if they play better D) have a good shot at making it out of the west. Josh Howard > Larry Hughes.......Howard and Terry are PLENTY good. No my friend this is based off of THIS year......Wade has had crap next to him the whole year and we all know it.</div> haha I trade Smush for Jason William or Eric Snow. And btw, we still have Sasha, Aaron Mckie who you can get for free. Can somebody please give Kobe the credit he deserves that actually this season, he making the other guys better? Smush, Kwame, Luke, LO all got better because of Kobe giving his trust and always encourage them to keep their head up. Wade's team is surrounded with ex-allstars. Shaq's might be declining but he's still one of the top 10 center is this league. ZO can starts for any teams in the league. Jason William is a player capable of putting 20/10, Gary is still a solid defender, Walker/Posey is overweight but they're two that can light up any given night, Dwight White is a very good young player, and Jason Kapono is a pure shooter. You're telling the Wade's team is better than Kobe/Lebron? give me a break.
I love how a thread called "who's the best player in the NBA" ALWAYS ends up in a Kobe vs. the world argument
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">haha I trade Smush for Jason William or Eric Snow. And btw, we still have Sasha, Aaron Mckie who you can get for free. Can somebody please give Kobe the credit he deserves that actually this season, he making the other guys better? Smush, Kwame, Luke, LO all got better because of Kobe giving his trust and always encourage them to keep their head up. Wade's team is surrounded with ex-allstars. Shaq's might be declining but he's still one of the top 10 center is this league. ZO can starts for any teams in the league. Jason William is a player capable of putting 20/10, Gary is still a solid defender, Walker/Posey is overweight but they're two that can light up any given night, Dwight White is a very good young player, and Jason Kapono is a pure shooter. You're telling the Wade's team is better than Kobe/Lebron? give me a break.</div> Eric Snow is down right awful to watch......you'd be insane to want the guy on your team....saying Shaq is a top 10 center is like saying Eddie Curry is a top 10 center.....the diesel is running on fumes...the rest of your post isn't worth me picking apart because it's just that bad. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I love how a thread called "who's the best player in the NBA" ALWAYS ends up in a Kobe vs. the world argument</div> I don't mind debating the topic with people like Shape,Durvasa,huevonkiller, etc. because they all bring up good points, BUT the fanboys.....that craps is just annoying. EDIT I couldn't resist I MUST pick apart the rest of that lame post. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wade's team is surrounded with ex-allstars. Shaq's might be declining but he's still one of the top 10 center is this league. ZO can starts for any teams in the league. Jason William is a player capable of putting 20/10, Gary is still a solid defender, Walker/Posey is overweight but they're two that can light up any given night, Dwight White is a very good young player, and Jason Kapono is a pure shooter. You're telling the Wade's team is better than Kobe/Lebron? give me a break</div> keyword EX-ALLSTARS........Yes Jason Williams is capable of putting up 20/10, so am I..the point is that he DOESN'T....Gary hasn't been a "solid" defender in years, does anyone remember Francis/Parker/Billups lighting him up a couple of years ago when he was in LALA land????........Walker is a BUM, he can get hot once every blue moon.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Eric Snow is down right awful to watch......you'd be insane to want the guy on your team....saying Shaq is a top 10 center is like saying Eddie Curry is a top 10 center.....the diesel is running on fumes...the rest of your post isn't worth me picking apart because it's just that bad. I don't mind debating the topic with people like Shape,Durvasa,huevonkiller, etc. because they all bring up good points, BUT the fanboys.....that craps is just annoying.</div> i bring up good points! don't you like my Jason Williams is a bigger version of Earl Boykins comparison? If you think about it their games are very similar.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yes....Z = I'm over the hill and I need to retire, Snow = I couldn't hit an open jumpshot if my life depended on it, Marshall = inconsistent, Gooden = a pretty good role player, Wesley = LMAO,Hughes = a decent second option when he's actually healthy....Shaq = injured and over the hill, Walker = Yuck, and he's out of shape, Posey = out of shape, Haslem = good role player, Williams = inconsistent, Payton = over the hill...Odom,Walton,Smush,Bynum,Cook,Farmar,Evans, Radmanovic deficate all over Bron and Wades supporting cast.....Kobe actually does have good teammates that's why I think the Lakers (if they play better D) have a good shot at making it out of the west.</div> I agree Lebron's supporting cast isn't as good as Kobe's, thus the Cav's record. Either way, Lebron's stats have regressed this season, and if he really is that great of a player, then he should be able to "take over" a lot of the games and get the Cavs a good record. Wade's supporting cast isn't as great as last seasons, but either way you look at it, they should at least be in the playoffs. Don't kid yourself. You know as a fact that if Kobe were in Dwyane Wade's situation everyone would be jumping on his *** saying that Kobe isn't a team player, he isn't making his teammates better, Kobe should at least be in the playoffs, Kobe isn't a winner and blah blah blah. And don't give me the fact that Dwayne Wade is tired, or he's injured. Because Kobe isn't 100% either. He had knee surgery in the offseason and didn't even play any ball over the summer. As for Arenas's 60 points, Kobe wasn't guarding Arenas the whole game. Once a player like Arenas gets hot, you can't stop him. I don't care if you are Bruce Bowen or Ron Artest, once a player like Arenas gets hot, it doesn't matter if you have 5 hands in his face, the guy will still make the shot. Like shape already pointed out earlier in the thread, Kobe has proven to be a better defender than Dwayne Wade or Lebron James.
