<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> agree Lebron's supporting cast isn't as good as Kobe's, thus the Cav's record. Either way, Lebron's stats have regressed this season, and if he really is that great of a player, then he should be able to "take over" a lot of the games and get the Cavs a good record. </div> I agree Bron has regressed, that's why Kobe is currently #2 on my list <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wade's supporting cast isn't as great as last seasons, but either way you look at it, they should at least be in the playoffs. Don't kid yourself. You know as a fact that if Kobe were in Dwyane Wade's situation everyone would be jumping on his *** saying that Kobe isn't a team player, he isn't making his teammates better, Kobe should at least be in the playoffs, Kobe isn't a winner and blah blah blah. And don't give me the fact that Dwayne Wade is tired, or he's injured. Because Kobe isn't 100% either. He had knee surgery in the offseason and didn't even play any ball over the summer. </div> did I say anything about Wade being injured????, and yes "others" might jump all over Kobe and say that he isn't a team player if he had a sorry supporting cast, but I'm not one of those people, because I realize you need a supporting cast to succeed in basketball <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for Arenas's 60 points, Kobe wasn't guarding Arenas the whole game. Once a player like Arenas gets hot, you can't stop him. I don't care if you are Bruce Bowen or Ron Artest, once a player like Arenas gets hot, it doesn't matter if you have 5 hands in his face, the guy will still make the shot. Like shape already pointed out earlier in the thread, Kobe has proven to be a better defender than Dwayne Wade or Lebron James. </div> this season he HASN'T proven to be a better defender than either one....although he didn't guard Gilbert on every possession he did have his fair share of time d-ing him up.....he also saw his fair share against Wade and Redd....and they went off also....the Lakers perimeter D has been bad this year....and Kobe is apart of their perimeter D.
I'm talking about THIS year. I don't care what defensive team he's been on in the past, because we are comparing who is better right now. This year, Kobe's defense has been mediocre at best, and hasn't been better than Wade's. At least Wade gets the blocks and steals though.
<div class="quote_poster">kobe4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">haha I trade Smush for Jason William or Eric Snow. And btw, we still have Sasha, Aaron Mckie who you can get for free. Can somebody please give Kobe the credit he deserves that actually this season, he making the other guys better? Smush, Kwame, Luke, LO all got better because of Kobe giving his trust and always encourage them to keep their head up. Wade's team is surrounded with ex-allstars. Shaq's might be declining but he's still one of the top 10 center is this league. ZO can starts for any teams in the league. Jason William is a player capable of putting 20/10, Gary is still a solid defender, Walker/Posey is overweight but they're two that can light up any given night, Dwight White is a very good young player, and Jason Kapono is a pure shooter. You're telling the Wade's team is better than Kobe/Lebron? give me a break.</div> One way to quickly compare who has the better supporting cast would be to just compare their average stats, per 48 minutes, adjusting for pace. GS rating is a PER-like summary statistic. TS% is scoring efficiency. It really isn't close: <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/>PTSOR TRAS ST BK TO PF TS% GS-rating<br/>LgAvg 19.5 2.28.2 4.11.41.03.04.553.9% 14.4<br/>Lakers18.1 2.38.3 4.21.41.23.14.556.0% 14.0<br/>Cavs16.8 3.09.1 3.51.21.12.74.850.5% 12.1<br/>Heat16.4 2.28.8 3.11.01.12.74.751.1% 11.4<br/></div> The numbers for Lakers, Cavs, and Heat exclude Kobe, LeBron, and Wade respectively. These stats are naturally more reflective of offensive potency, and there's no question that Kobe's teammates have been more effective offensive than LeBron's or Wade's. That's why the Lakers as a team are 6th in offensive efficiency, while the Cavs are 20th and the Heat are 27th. Defensively, the Cavs and Heat probably have an edge, but not nearly enough to offset the gap offensively. Particularly in the case of Wade's teammates. They have been just pathetic offensively.
LOL, when I saw that Durvasa was typing I knew he was going to come in with some stat to shut somebody up....I'm just glad that somebody wasn't me....lol....good stuff though (as usual)
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">LOL, when I saw that Durvasa was typing I knew he was going to come in with some stat to shut somebody up....I'm just glad that somebody wasn't me....lol....good stuff though (as usual)</div> Out of curiosrity, how did you know I was typing? Another way to compare the teammate's strength would be to just look at what the teams do without the star on the court. <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/>Min TmPts OppPtsNet<br/>Lakers438 106.7 105.9 +0.8<br/>Cavs245 98.3101.9 -3.6<br/>Heat547 96.3112.7 -16.4<br/></div> Kobe and Wade have missed multiple games, so their team's net point differential without them on the court is probably less than it should be (they've probably had to go deeper into their bench than the Cavs). Still, there's no question that the Wade's teammates overall are just terrible. I think the evidence is overwhelming.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe's defense > Bill Russell and Hakeem Olajuwon and Michael Jordan.....combined all together!!!!</div> Kobe's defense would have gotten Sadaam acquitted.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Out of curiosrity, how did you know I was typing</div> your name was lit up at the bottom of the screen...I knew it was coming.
I find it interesting that the Lakers are +0.8 without Kobe on the court. Obviously their point differential is even higher with him, but this, and the fact they beat Phoenix without him, just goes to show that his supporting cast is pretty damn good, and he's not as valuable to the Lakers as Wade and Lebron are to the Heat and Cavs. This could also have a little to do with the fact that the Lakers have maybe the best coach ever.
<div class="quote_poster">XSV Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'm talking about THIS year. I don't care what defensive team he's been on in the past, because we are comparing who is better right now. This year, Kobe's defense has been mediocre at best, and hasn't been better than Wade's. At least Wade gets the blocks and steals though.</div> At least Wade gets blocks and steals? Wow. Okay. Stats don't mean anything. Like shape already pointed out, Kobe shut down Ron Artest and Kevin Martin in the game against the Kings. I'm going to be completely honest with you, Kobe's defense this season has not looked as great as past seasons, probably because of the fact that he didn't play any ball over the summer, but he is still capable at playing at a high level when called upon. Anyways, just wondering. Who do you think is the best player in the NBA
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">At least Wade gets blocks and steals? Wow. Okay. Stats don't mean anything. Like shape already pointed out, Kobe shut down Ron Artest and Kevin Martin in the game against the Kings. I'm going to be completely honest with you, Kobe's defense this season has not looked as great as past seasons, probably because of the fact that he didn't play any ball over the summer, but he is still capable at playing at a high level when called upon. Anyways, just wondering. Who do you think is the best player in the NBA</div> How often was Kobe guarding Artest? I wasn't paying attention. On the season, he's averaging 16 ppg on 40% shooting in roughy 35 mpg. And he just had a ridiculous 39 points game on 15-22 from the field which bumped up his averages. He averaged only 11 ppg in 31 mpg on 36% shooting during the month of December. Against the Lakers, he scored 19 points in 35 minutes on 50% shooting. That's a well-above average game for him this year. As for Kevin Martin, he had 21 points and 4 assists in 40 minutes, on 50% shooting. And he should have scored more, but he uncharacteristically missed 4 freethrows. That's isn't very far from his usual offensive production. Was Kobe not guarding him for most of that either?
Brian First off, stats don't mean everything, but they do mean something, and are really the only concrete method of judging a player's performance. Secondly, who do I think is the best player in the NBA? In my opinion, it's between Kobe, Wade, and Lebron, and right now it's just too close to call. Wade is my favourite player, so obviously I favour him. What pisses me off though is certain Kobe fans who think he is "in another league" or drastically overrate his defense or cling to past accomplishments, or support their arguments with blind speculation or wild, factless statements and refuse to acknowledge Durvasa's stats that clearly refutes these statements. I also believe that Arenas is severely underrated, and deserves mentioning in this category. I'm sick of people saying "Well keep this up for the rest of the season or the next few years and then we'll consider mentioning him." We're talking about the best current player, and currently, Gil is top 4 or 5 in the NBA. You could make an argument that he's the best as well.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe's defense = overrated</div> No way man. Kobe's defense could put San Quentin on lockdown. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How often was Kobe guarding Artest? I wasn't paying attention. On the season, he's averaging 16 ppg on 40% shooting in roughy 35 mpg. And he just had a ridiculous 39 points game on 15-22 from the field which bumped up his averages. He averaged only 11 ppg in 31 mpg on 36% shooting during the month of December. Against the Lakers, he scored 19 points in 35 minutes on 50% shooting. That's a well-above average game for him this year. As for Kevin Martin, he had 21 points and 4 assists in 40 minutes, on 50% shooting. And he should have scored more, but he uncharacteristically missed 4 freethrows. That's isn't very far from his usual offensive production. Was Kobe not guarding him for most of that either?</div> I don't remember Kobe ever guarding Artest. Maybe for a possession or two, but for the most part, it was Walton on him. He guarded Martin all game, and like you said, Martin an average game, matching all his averages except ft%.
<div class="quote_poster">XSV Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Brian First off, stats don't mean everything, but they do mean something, and are really the only concrete method of judging a player's performance. Secondly, who do I think is the best player in the NBA? In my opinion, it's between Kobe, Wade, and Lebron, and right now it's just too close to call. Wade is my favourite player, so obviously I favour him. What pisses me off though is certain Kobe fans who think he is "in another league" or drastically overrate his defense or cling to past accomplishments, or support their arguments with blind speculation or wild, factless statements and refuse to acknowledge Durvasa's stats that clearly refutes these statements. I also believe that Arenas is severely underrated, and deserves mentioning in this category. I'm sick of people saying "Well keep this up for the rest of the season or the next few years and then we'll consider mentioning him." We're talking about the best current player, and currently, Gil is top 4 or 5 in the NBA. You could make an argument that he's the best as well.</div> I am not one of those "Kobe fans" that believe Kobe is in another league by himself. Dwyane Wade and Lebron James are great players, but at this point, I still think Kobe is better, but like I said, Kobe isn't leagues ahead of either player. I feel Kobe is the better, but not by much. Wade and Lebron are both still very young, and in another 2 or 3 seasons, they may very well be a bigger force than Kobe. But as of now, like I said, I still feel Kobe is the best in the league. If you were to pick one player, to win you one game, I'm pretty sure 99 out of 100 will choose Kobe simpily because of his ability to take over games. Again, I'm not taking away anything from both Wade or Lebron, I just feel that as of now, Kobe is the better player. I agree with you on the Gilbert Arenas part as well. The guy is having himself one hell of a season. If he were in a bigger market team, the guy would generate tons of spotlight
Kobe went through a bad spell, just like any other player does. I think it's funny how whenever he goes through a little spell of bad D, every hops on and say's "see, I told you he had poor D." Yet they forget to mention that in the other 70 games of the season, he played solid D. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">How often was Kobe guarding Artest? I wasn't paying attention. On the season, he's averaging 16 ppg on 40% shooting in roughy 35 mpg. And he just had a ridiculous 39 points game on 15-22 from the field which bumped up his averages. He averaged only 11 ppg in 31 mpg on 36% shooting during the month of December. Against the Lakers, he scored 19 points in 35 minutes on 50% shooting. That's a well-above average game for him this year.</div> The Kings also played 13 of their 15 games against teams with records of .500+ in December. They also played 6 games against the Suns, Mavs, Spurs and Jazz. Hence, the deflated stats for December. Artest is averaging 16/7/3 this season. He had 19/3/2 against the Lakers in a game that went into overtime. Artest also picked up 6 fouls in the game, something that could be credited to Kobe. The performance was not well above average at all.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe went through a bad spell, just like any other player does. I think it's funny how whenever he goes through a little spell of bad D, every hops on and say's "see, I told you he had poor D." Yet they forget to mention that in the other 70 games of the season, he played solid D. </div> what other 70 games???
