<div class="quote_poster">M Two One Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah I agree that if Gasol were dealt for Thomas and Brown the Grizz would really be in a deeper hole then they already are. Not to mention that trade would lose more fans and the franchise doesn't need that right now. However, I don't think that would even be possible, though I do think Gasol wouldn't fit in well here either since Skiles works on a team effort style rather then focusing on a player or two. Gasol would probably play to his best if he were dealt away to a team like Phili or even Cleveland. Imagine Gasol and James on the same team. That would either be a huge bust or one of the best tandems in the league's history. We just will never know unless it actually happens, though I highly doubt Cleveland would deal for him anyway, just a thought is all. I understand that the Grizz design a lot of plays for Gasol, but the type of plays they run aren't his style from what I've seen. He's more dominant then that because I remember seeing him play two games before he was in the NBA and he was the most aggressive European player I've ever seen. Usually European style is more about flash and flair, but Gasol was hardcore and a lot of Euro players hated him for it. A side that he barelly lets out here (at least from what I've seen before) he's rather mellow in the NBA in my honest opinion. He should unleash that aggressive style and use his athletisism to help attribute to better play. he could score much more then he currently does or ever has before. I get plenty of Euro games out here, mostly from the Italian or French leagues. I know that NBA TV sucks for Euro broadcasts and I truthfully hadn't even notice Maccabi was on so damn much until you actually mentioned it. Most enjoyable here is a team I've followed from Pau for years, (?lan B?arnais) which has notably given the NBA players like Diaw, Pietrus and Petro. The funny thing is that I have ties to each of those players. My fianc? went to college with Diaw and Pietrus an her friend dated Petro for years. I actually have some rather funny stories about how stupid he is. He's a nice guy, but he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer.</div> I don't know what Cleveland would have to deal for Gasol, but damn, that would be one sick combination. It's odd that Garnett was mentioned early on in this thread, because the more I think about it, Gasol's turning into a player in Garnett's mold. There are subtle differences in their games, but more or less, they're amazingly similar players. Gasol's just about four or five years younger. I kind of hear ya' on the Grizzlies not catering to Gasol's style, but really, I think the reason he's more successful in Europe is because he cares more about the Spanish national team than he cares about the Grizzlies. It seems like he's just in the NBA because that's where the money is, but Spain is where his heart is. They always call "?lan B?arnais" by the name of Pau Orthez back in the states. Don't know what the deal with that is, but that's the first time I've heard them called ?lan B?arnais. Odd... and man, you've got to let us in on some of those Petro stories. I'm intrigued. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Boy what a Tyrus hater. Why all the hate on Tyrus Thomas?</div> It's not hate. The guy's a decent prospect, but he doesn't deserve the hype he's getting in this thread.
Sure, but I don't know if I should post an entire thread on Petro though. Seems ignorant a bit, no? lol As for the Pau-Orthez name it means Ice bears or Polar bears really. I'm surprised the NBA TV analysts are that dumb. Though I remember watching a few games and noticed they often mispronounce things from every team. Never in my life have I heard anyone call C.S.K.A. Moskva as "Ceska."
Hey VC, you mentioned Thomas has a bad attitude.. did he do something in college? Because during the Bulls games they talk about how he spends all his time during the summer playing basketball at the Berto Center. Has he done something in the past?
I'm pretty satisfied with the roster, only they don't know what to do with it in terms of playing time. A downsize of about 3 or 4 guys would do wonders even with the risk of injuries. The team is clogged by too much depth and may end up being the next Grizzlies pooper.
<div class="quote_poster">MrJ Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Would you rather have Eddy Curry or Tyrus Thomas? </div> Still Thomas. If we had kept Curry, paying him the price he was asking, we likely would have never signed Ben Wallace, nor made some of the other moves we made this past off season such as extending Hinrich before he hit the open market. Not to mention still having the option to trade picks with the Knicks in this years draft, and go from picking most likely in the late 20's to the lottery, in what is projected to be one of the deepest drafts ever. not to mention Tyrus is a project, who has not received playing time, no one knows how good he will be yet.
We wouldn't need Wallace if we still had Curry. Also the Bulls don't need more projects they went through that phase for six years and suffered from it with making bad decisions. The draft is a good point, but then it adds more depth to an already bloated roster of players, which if rookies are drafted at a high level other players on extended contracts will be pushed out of their roles and the team will still falter lower with bad team chemistry. Not to mention waiver issues that happens. They aren't looking ahead as much as they are looking to just win at everything. I see the management with a mindset of basically one word, "mine!" Ben Wallace is a good player, don't get me wrong, but he doesn't even match up to what Dennis Rodman has done in terms of a team and defensive aspect. People forget about that, or just don't know or care to. Mind you Rodman has helped two teams to five titles over the span of his career and at one point averaged 18.5 rpg over two full seasons. Of which, one of those seasons basically averaged 10 ppg. On the Bulls he averaged 15 - 16 - 15 rpg over his three seasons there. Though Dennis wasn't much of a scoring threat he didn't need to be because he defined his job wherever he played. Until Wallace can live up to that and pass that significantly, which he likely won't, then I don't see his price tag being anything but up to 20 percent worth the actually price the organization are paying him.
<div class="quote_poster">M Two One Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">We wouldn't need Wallace if we still had Curry. Also the Bulls don't need more projects they went through that phase for six years and suffered from it with making bad decisions. The draft is a good point, but then it adds more depth to an already bloated roster of players, which if rookies are drafted at a high level other players on extended contracts will be pushed out of their roles and the team will still falter lower with bad team chemistry. Not to mention waiver issues that happens. They aren't looking ahead as much as they are looking to just win at everything. I see the management with a mindset of basically one word, "mine!"</div> Eddy Curry has never been, nor will ever be the defensive force that Wallace is, I don't know about you but regardless of the points Curry gives us down low I would rather have Wallace than Curry. Curry is a horrible rebounder for a man his size, and remains out of shape despite having a huge contract to motivate him. Also by having Wallace not only does it add to our roster, it also takes away from what the Pistons are doing. If the Pistons still had Wallace there is no doubt in my mind that they would be the clear cut favorites in the east at this point instead of bundled amidst the pack. The draft can be used to address our positions of need, if we aren't winning a title yet, obviously there is still an area we can improve in. Should we somehow obtain Greg Oden, our need for an inside scorer is addressed. Now I realize we would not have this need if we had held on to Curry. However, if that had been the case we would still have 120 million dollars tied up between himself and Chandler, as well as suffer in the transition game due to Curry's inability to consistently run on the break. So overall we would have more problems had we held on to Curry, then we would have resolutions. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ben Wallace is a good player, don't get me wrong, but he doesn't even match up to what Dennis Rodman has done in terms of a team and defensive aspect. People forget about that, or just don't know or care to. Mind you Rodman has helped two teams to five titles over the span of his career and at one point averaged 18.5 rpg over two full seasons. Of which, one of those seasons basically averaged 10 ppg. On the Bulls he averaged 15 - 16 - 15 rpg over his three seasons there.</div> You have to remember that the rules back then were immensely different then they are now, which allowed the defensive player to succeed more. Now a days with the NBA trying to raise the scoring output all the rules favor the offensive player as opposed to the defensive minded guys. I doubt Dennis Rodman could put up those numbers in todays NBA. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Though Dennis wasn't much of a scoring threat he didn't need to be because he defined his job wherever he played. Until Wallace can live up to that and pass that significantly, which he likely won't, then I don't see his price tag being anything but up to 20 percent worth the actually price the organization are paying him.</div> The contract that was given to Wallace may have been a bit high for a player who rarely brings an offensive game. However, if you look at it in the long term it really isn't a bad deal financially for the Bulls as many think. Wallace's deal is front loaded, and ends the year Lebron and Wade hit the free agent market. So the deal will not prevent the Bulls from pursuing big name free agents. Had we kept Chandler and Curry as opposed to having signed Wallace we would be in a worse financial situation then we are now. Also something I forgot to mention is that the draft picks can also be used as trade bate to bring in veteran talent at positions we need. They don't necessarily have to be used to bring in young project type players to the team.
<div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Eddy Curry has never been, nor will ever be the defensive force that Wallace is, I don't know about you but regardless of the points Curry gives us down low I would rather have Wallace than Curry. Curry is a horrible rebounder for a man his size, and remains out of shape despite having a huge contract to motivate him. Also by having Wallace not only does it add to our roster, it also takes away from what the Pistons are doing. If the Pistons still had Wallace there is no doubt in my mind that they would be the clear cut favorites in the east at this point instead of bundled amidst the pack.</div> Ben Wallace does not actually "add" to the roster much of anything except a high contract for talent that is only worth 20 percent of that cash expense if even that. I don't know if you've been paying attention to the stadings over the last month, but the Pistons are doing fine without Ben Wallace right now. Despite not being far in the lead they still actually do lead the Eastern Conference in the standings and will likely continue to play well despite not having Ben on the roster sheet. I don't think a championship is on the horizon for them this season, but at least they aren't overswamped with talent that seems to be going to waste. Which clearly is the biggest issue for the Bulls and it shows in their ability to match their defensive style of the previous season. Changing what they relied on to make way for someone else that will give them a bigger profit on sales in the jersey department. If you hadn't noticed Ben isn't exactly an All-Star and yet will still likely make the Eastern team come the big dance. That's pathetic on behalf of NBA fans. Chicago was never concerned about ticket sale if you believe that's what I'm getting at you're wrong entirely. However, if you look at the Bulls merch department their sale went from the top selling sports products in the world to under the top 100 in the last seven years. That's a drastic drop for a team with such a big part in worldwide sports history. You can ask just about any European over 21 years old and most of them will tell you that the Bulls of 96-98 are one of their most memorable moments in all of sports and likely the greatest teams assembled in sports history. I can't say that for sure, but I won't deny that it can be true. They, like me, don't understand what the hell the management is doing right now. Agreed however, Curry is not a great defensive player, but why have him or Wallace when we could have gone with someone that will better suit the squad? With how much cash they have to dish out they could've easily picked up a much better talent then Ben Wallace or giving new contracts to Eddy Curry or Tyson Chandler. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The draft can be used to address our positions of need, if we aren't winning a title yet, obviously there is still an area we can improve in. Should we somehow obtain Greg Oden, our need for an inside scorer is addressed. Now I realize we would not have this need if we had held on to Curry. However, if that had been the case we would still have 120 million dollars tied up between himself and Chandler, as well as suffer in the transition game due to Curry's inability to consistently run on the break. So overall we would have more problems had we held on to Curry, then we would have resolutions.</div> Sure the draft can address our positions of need, only just depending on Sweetney and a few others not being re-signed next season. If the Bulls draft a power forward for instance what would be the point in trying to build up Tyrus Thomas? That's right, there is absolutely no point what-so-ever. I'm already unsatisfied with how the management is with Thabo Sefolosha's upbringing. Without more playing time his talent could be a huge waste. Mind you he isn't the same age as Tyrus Thomas and without proper motivation and playing time his career will be over before it even could begin. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You have to remember that the rules back then were immensely different then they are now, which allowed the defensive player to succeed more. Now a days with the NBA trying to raise the scoring output all the rules favor the offensive player as opposed to the defensive minded guys. I doubt Dennis Rodman could put up those numbers in todays NBA.</div> The rules back then have been long gone surely, but that doesn't mean someone with high defensive aspects cannot adapt their game properly, which you may have forgotton is what Dennis Rodman was known for. Always adapting to his environment and his coach's stye of play. he could easily get into another player's head. Frank Brickowski anyone? Those are small portions of what made him a dangerous player and some of the reasons Phil Jackson was happy to play him and give him a proper role on the team during those amazing years. Rodman, in his prime, would definitely be the same if not likely better today then he was years ago. People toss him aside because his life outside the league was a joke, but one specialist cannot forget his amazing work on the court and his athletisism. Think about how he would get heavily wasted and stoned the night before an NBA finals game and show up on time the next day and pull down 18 + boards. That is rather astonishing for any athlete. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The contract that was given to Wallace may have been a bit high for a player who rarely brings an offensive game. However, if you look at it in the long term it really isn't a bad deal financially for the Bulls as many think. Wallace's deal is front loaded, and ends the year Lebron and Wade hit the free agent market. So the deal will not prevent the Bulls from pursuing big name free agents. Had we kept Chandler and Curry as opposed to having signed Wallace we would be in a worse financial situation then we are now. Also something I forgot to mention is that the draft picks can also be used as trade bate to bring in veteran talent at positions we need. They don't necessarily have to be used to bring in young project type players to the team.</div> James and Wade are under contracts that will allow their respected teams to make the first contract offer and given their play the year before the date of free agency they will likely re-sign at the end of the upcoming season if neither of them should be traded before then. Not to write speculation that they will, that's just an example. You cannot rely on that at all, because those teams will do whatever it takes to keep their players on their rosters. Keeping Curry and Chandler would've been a hell of a burden for sure I can agree entirely there, but you and I both knew of course that the Bulls wouldn't do that in the first place. Trading two first round draft picks aren't much of a property these days as they once were. In order to gain a player with the talent of, oh let's just say Kevin Garnett or Dwayne Wade the Bulls would have to give an arm and a leg basically. Remember that the Bulls are a solid team and with the exception of the Wolves (who aren't that horrible) the Heat are defending champions and a solid team as well. Gaining either of these players could require the Bulls to not only match up decently with current talent like Ben Gordon and Andrs Nocioni, but also the future talent of the two first rounders and likely cash considerations to boost. Remember that these superstar players also bring high income on merch sales and their respective team will have to think about that too. These deals would either never get done or be impossible to conjure up an asking price due to the cap and trading rules. You won't see these trades often with the exception of the Sixers. They were basically raped a few weeks ago, but they were in too far of a bad situation and they knew first hand that the time has come to rebuild the franchise from the ground up. Plus they also know they have a potential superstar in Andre Iguodala and have put their hopes in building up his abilities. The NBA is a difficult path to follow, not so much so as the NHL or European sports, but it can be tricky. There is much more then what the analysts will dish out to know about such as the merch sales and plenty more in the background. I do however, respect your point of view on the subject though. Nicely done my friend.
<div class="quote_poster">M Two One Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Ben Wallace does not actually "add" to the roster much of anything except a high contract for talent that is only worth 20 percent of that cash expense if even that. I don't know if you've been paying attention to the stadings over the last month, but the Pistons are doing fine without Ben Wallace right now. Despite not being far in the lead they still actually do lead the Eastern Conference in the standings and will likely continue to play well despite not having Ben on the roster sheet. I don't think a championship is on the horizon for them this season, but at least they aren't overswamped with talent that seems to be going to waste. Which clearly is the biggest issue for the Bulls and it shows in their ability to match their defensive style of the previous season.</div> By saying Ben Wallace will never be worth 20% of his contract, you are making an assumption that can not be justified by any factual information. Will you still feel this way if Wallace averages dominating defensive numbers in the playoffs, and the Bulls somehow win the NBA title? hypothetically speaking there are a number of scenarios that can disprove what you are stating. Plus who is worth their contract in the NBA nowadays? Is Shaq (at his current age) worth 100 million dollars? No, but the Heat gave him that money because they new although he might not be worth it in the future, at the present time, he gave them a window to win an NBA title, and that is what Wallace does. Now by no mean am I comparing Wallace to Shaquille O'Neal let me make that clear before a third party enters this thread and tries to insinuate that, that is my intention. I am simple giving an example of a situation in which a player is being overpaid for a shot at winning the NBA's biggest prize. Now let's talk about the Pistons quickly. Do you believe they are at the same level as they were last season? They were among the elite last season of the NBA in my opinion. Right now they lead the eastern conference, that's not saying much, if you take a poll of a hundred people who casually follow the NBA I guarantee that the Pistons will not get the majority of the votes if you ask the question "who will represent the eastern conference in the finals?", last season that would not have been the case. The Pistons right now are a team that although still very good, are very beatable. Their defense is still good, but not nearly as goof as it use to be. The Bulls have without a doubt benefited from having Wallace on the team. The statistics may not show it, but if the league kept a number on shots altered I am sure Wallace would be among the league leaders. His numbers at the current time do not show the impact he has had because he had a slow start to the season. He not only struggled adjusting to a new system, but he argued with Skiles and suffered from a bicep tear injury. The Bulls rank lower, at the present time, in defense then they did last season at this time. However, that is more because of the league rule changes than fault of Ben Wallace. If you remember early in the season Hinrich was having trouble staying on the court because he was trying to play defense the same way he did last year, and the referees were blowing the whistle every single time. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Changing what they relied on to make way for someone else that will give them a bigger profit on sales in the jersey department. If you hadn't noticed Ben isn't exactly an All-Star and yet will still likely make the Eastern team come the big dance. That's pathetic on behalf of NBA fans. Chicago was never concerned about ticket sale if you believe that's what I'm getting at you're wrong entirely. However, if you look at the Bulls merch department their sale went from the top selling sports products in the world to under the top 100 in the last seven years. That's a drastic drop for a team with such a big part in worldwide sports history.</div> I don't think the Bulls did this move for a merchandise from a sale stand point. The Bulls have long been a storied franchise since their inception into the league. They have great pride, and want to win. The fans although they have been supportive of the rebuilding process, likely felt the same way. After watching Elton Brand, Ron Artest, Brad Miller, etc. all come through the organization and go, you have to think the fans were beginning to question how truly committed to winning the organization was. There were rumors that the owner no longer cared to spend money with the Bulls and was more interested in the immediate success of the White Sox organization. So what do the Bulls do to disprove all the doubters? Go out and make the biggest splash in free agency by signing Ben Wallace. It was a move needed to be made to revitalize the city as well as the fan base. Although, the support from the fans never diminished, the Bulls for a while had been a team without a face, now they have one. Not trying to say Wallace is the teams best player, but it's most recognized one. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You can ask just about any European over 21 years old and most of them will tell you that the Bulls of 96-98 are one of their most memorable moments in all of sports and likely the greatest teams assembled in sports history. I can't say that for sure, but I won't deny that it can be true. They, like me, don't understand what the hell the management is doing right now.</div> Are you displeased with the moves the organization has made these past few seasons? I for one feel they are moves that could/should earn Paxson the general manager of the year award. A big reason why the European fans would say the Bulls of the 96-98 era was one of their favorite sports teams is because of one man Michael Jordan, and the six championships he brought the team. What they need to understand is that not every generation will produce a Michael Jordan, and that it takes a long process to build a title contender. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Agreed however, Curry is not a great defensive player, but why have him or Wallace when we could have gone with someone that will better suit the squad? With how much cash they have to dish out they could've easily picked up a much better talent then Ben Wallace or giving new contracts to Eddy Curry or Tyson Chandler.</div> Who was available in this past off-season that was a better player than Ben Wallace? Like I said the Bulls made a move to re-energize the fan base and begin to talks of "nba title" in Chicago once again. They made a smart move by signing Wallace to a front loaded contract, when the free agents that can become "franchise players" are on the market the large portion of Wallace's contract will already be off the books so it will not hinder them from pursuing those big names. Many felt the Bulls should have waited and spent their money in this upcoming free agent class, which at the time was projected to be very deep. However, with most teams locking up their young players the big names are pretty much gone off the market. The biggest names available now are Vince Carter and Rashard Lewis neither of which I feel would be a good fit for the Bulls considering Carters defects of the defensive side. Lewis is a guy who can put the ball in the whole but his position (small forward) is already loaded on the squad. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sure the draft can address our positions of need, only just depending on Sweetney and a few others not being re-signed next season. If the Bulls draft a power forward for instance what would be the point in trying to build up Tyrus Thomas? That's right, there is absolutely no point what-so-ever. I'm already unsatisfied with how the management is with Thabo Sefolosha's upbringing. Without more playing time his talent could be a huge waste. Mind you he isn't the same age as Tyrus Thomas and without proper motivation and playing time his career will be over before it even could begin.</div> You don't give the organization enough credit. Do you expect them to draft a power forward knowing they have Tyrus Thomas waiting in the wings? However, hypothetically speaking let's say they did. Tyrus has the athletic ability to make an easy transition to either the two or the three in the future in my opinion. Also you are assuming the organization will even use the picks. What is stopping them from packaging the pick along with some young talent in order to get a star like Garnett? If they get a top five selection it will put them in perfect position to make a play for a scoring superstar. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The rules back then have been long gone surely, but that doesn't mean someone with high defensive aspects cannot adapt their game properly, which you may have forgotton is what Dennis Rodman was known for. Always adapting to his environment and his coach's stye of play. he could easily get into another player's head. Frank Brickowski anyone? Those are small portions of what made him a dangerous player and some of the reasons Phil Jackson was happy to play him and give him a proper role on the team during those amazing years. Rodman, in his prime, would definitely be the same if not likely better today then he was years ago. People toss him aside because his life outside the league was a joke, but one specialist cannot forget his amazing work on the court and his athletisism. Think about how he would get heavily wasted and stoned the night before an NBA finals game and show up on time the next day and pull down 18 + boards. That is rather astonishing for any athlete.</div> Although Rodman was great at getting the job done on the court, despite his extreme life style off of it, and could adjust to any situation back in the day. With the league the way it is today, and David Sterns zero tolerance rule on nonsense on the court and off I doubt Rodman in his prime or past it could survive a full season in David Sterns NBA. He would be fined and suspended repeatedly throughout the seasons and the rules the NBA have in play for conduct on the court would take away from Rodman's best attribute which is getting in opponents heads. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">James and Wade are under contracts that will allow their respected teams to make the first contract offer and given their play the year before the date of free agency they will likely re-sign at the end of the upcoming season if neither of them should be traded before then. Not to write speculation that they will, that's just an example. You cannot rely on that at all, because those teams will do whatever it takes to keep their players on their rosters.</div> Actually, I believe that James/Wade are unrestricted free agents they signed three year extensions in order to have that right. So their teams do not have early bird rights to them. Although, they can try and resign them before the contract runs out I doubt both will be signed in time. Not to mention Lebron's intense desire to win, if the Cavs have not won when his contract is up who is to say for sure he will remain a Cav? Wade is a Chicago native who is to say he does not long to return home? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Keeping Curry and Chandler would've been a hell of a burden for sure I can agree entirely there, but you and I both knew of course that the Bulls wouldn't do that in the first place. Trading two first round draft picks aren't much of a property these days as they once were. In order to gain a player with the talent of, oh let's just say Kevin Garnett or Dwayne Wade the Bulls would have to give an arm and a leg basically.</div> First let me address KG. With the move they made that sent Curry to NY they essentially put themselves in perfect position to make a package for KG that would blow the competition away if it came down to that. Let's say the pick the Knicks gave us ends up as a top five pick we would have a top five pick, Tyrus Thomas, and a bunch of other pieces to trade in order to acquire KG. As far as Wade goes. If we pursue him in free agency we would not have to give up anything. If we are over the cap at that time we could easily arrange a sign and trade that would please both teams.
<div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">By saying Ben Wallace will never be worth 20% of his contract, you are making an assumption that can not be justified by any factual information. Will you still feel this way if Wallace averages dominating defensive numbers in the playoffs, and the Bulls somehow win the NBA title? hypothetically speaking there are a number of scenarios that can disprove what you are stating. Plus who is worth their contract in the NBA nowadays? Is Shaq (at his current age) worth 100 million dollars? No, but the Heat gave him that money because they new although he might not be worth it in the future, at the present time, he gave them a window to win an NBA title, and that is what Wallace does.</div> There is no assumption to something that already has been proven. The man [Ben Wallace] was never as good as Dennis Rodman who was signed to teams for a similar purpose on the court. Ben cannot match up to his contract and of course Shaq cannot either. This already shows you much purpose of the signing to help make up the cash loss within merch sales and popularity on a worldwide scale. The difference between us is that I get this information from a city sports lettering merch rep who informed me directly about this in a discussion while purchasing a Sabres jersey. The guy's business is professionally tied to the Bulls, White Sox, and Blackhawks organizations. As always I prefer to get my info from the facts. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Now let's talk about the Pistons quickly. Do you believe they are at the same level as they were last season? They were among the elite last season of the NBA in my opinion. Right now they lead the eastern conference, that's not saying much, if you take a poll of a hundred people who casually follow the NBA I guarantee that the Pistons will not get the majority of the votes if you ask the question "who will represent the eastern conference in the finals?", last season that would not have been the case.</div> Sure, let's. Of course they are not at the same level as last season and nowhere did I make that my opinion. Last season they were not pictured in the NBA championship highlight despite still having Ben Wallace. Think about it and you'll notice the majority of people had Miami on their list plain and simple. I didn't have them [Detroit] in my pool either. That is entirely different then the year they were pictured to be smashed by the Lakers where I originally stated that they would beat them in a sweep and that if the Lakers were lucky they would pull one out in a thriller. Sickeningly strange enough it turned out to be just that because the NBA is still quite predictable compared to other leagues when it comes down to the end. Another example is that Phoenix were touted as a contender so many years. You cannot go deep with their style of play in a difficult Playoff run. Based on team talent in the Eastern Conference anyone could say the Pistons are still an elite team based on that [Eastern] level and they are. The Cavs are another along with the Heat, Magic and Bulls. They're all about in equal form and that's not saying much seeing that the East is very weak, more so then ever before. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The Pistons right now are a team that although still very good, are very beatable. Their defense is still good, but not nearly as goof as it use to be. The Bulls have without a doubt benefited from having Wallace on the team. The statistics may not show it, but if the league kept a number on shots altered I am sure Wallace would be among the league leaders. His numbers at the current time do not show the impact he has had because he had a slow start to the season. He not only struggled adjusting to a new system, but he argued with Skiles and suffered from a bicep tear injury. The Bulls rank lower, at the present time, in defense then they did last season at this time. However, that is more because of the league rule changes than fault of Ben Wallace. If you remember early in the season Hinrich was having trouble staying on the court because he was trying to play defense the same way he did last year, and the referees were blowing the whistle every single time.</div> Ben Wallace has good intangibles that's for certain, but again he does not live up to that contract. Arguing with Scott Skiles is a big factor in showing carelessness. Why is that you'll surely want to know? Skiles and Paxson discussed contract deals with him alone, face to face for hours including team ideas and function and thus there is no sense to why he acted that way knowing how the team works on and off the court beforehand. I remember in an interview with Skiles during the fall before the season started he discussed with local media about how he and Paxson thoroughly explained their intentions and team situation to Ben. Given that he knew about everything before the season started, well, there is no further need for explaination from him now is there? The league's rules for this season haven't changed too drastically from the previous one where fouls were issued far worse then they are today. Hinrich is having trouble playing because he is suffering from an injury that the media do not know about yet. A freind of mine who sat behind the team a few games so far this season noticed a problem with his thigh each time. he received special treatments during commercial breaks for this injury so yes he is lagging on an injury and still playing fairly well anyway, yet I see so many people nagging at him despite the fact that I reported this at least a month ago. Of course you know that not all injuries are reported in the league, most of the time not until they come into full bloom and are exposed when the player can no longer withstand the pain. This depends of course on the popularity of the player as well. Popularity, merch sales and the like fall into the NBA's point of view of media subjects and awards for the most part as well. it has been this way since the early 90's. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think the Bulls did this move for a merchandise from a sale stand point. The Bulls have long been a storied franchise since their inception into the league. They have great pride, and want to win. The fans although they have been supportive of the rebuilding process, likely felt the same way. After watching Elton Brand, Ron Artest, Brad Miller, etc. all come through the organization and go, you have to think the fans were beginning to question how truly committed to winning the organization was. There were rumors that the owner no longer cared to spend money with the Bulls and was more interested in the immediate success of the White Sox organization. So what do the Bulls do to disprove all the doubters? Go out and make the biggest splash in free agency by signing Ben Wallace. It was a move needed to be made to revitalize the city as well as the fan base. Although, the support from the fans never diminished, the Bulls for a while had been a team without a face, now they have one. Not trying to say Wallace is the teams best player, but it's most recognized one.</div> Many fans knew Artest and Miller had to go and of course many wanted them to including myself. The organization didn't find them as intregal parts of their intentions to win championships. Elton Brand for the draft pick on the other hand was a move done by a man (we all know who that is) who was at the end of his rope knowing he alone had broken up the greatest championship team in NBA history and basically took the franchise and stuffed it underwater to drown. You don't take apart a team that quickly like in 1998 and expect it to rebuild easily within a year or two as he expected. He was living in his own fantasy world at the time and even he exposed that to the Chicago media when resigning from his position. There were never any rumors from factual sources that the Bulls owner was focusing on the White Sox solely. Some people just assumed that when he mentioned at the Sox ceremonies that this championship meant more to him then all six Bulls championships it bothered them because they didn't agree with his opinion. Bugged me a bit too, but you have to think when you're that happy over something you can get caught up in the moment as well. He is human afterall. You may also know that on Comcast SportsNet Chicago he issued an appology for that statement shortly days after? See above for merch statement. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Are you displeased with the moves the organization has made these past few seasons? I for one feel they are moves that could/should earn Paxson the general manager of the year award. A big reason why the European fans would say the Bulls of the 96-98 era was one of their favorite sports teams is because of one man Michael Jordan, and the six championships he brought the team. What they need to understand is that not every generation will produce a Michael Jordan, and that it takes a long process to build a title contender.</div> I'm not displeased at all, but again I can't agree with every move my favorite team makes just because I've followed them for 19 years. Also you have no idea of European basketball fans because in truth you will mostly see fans here wearing Scottie Pippen or Toni Kukoc jerseys. When I asked a few of them at basketball games who their favorite players were only a few times did Michael Jordan come up and when he did it was more like "I love Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan was a great player too. The team was very fun to watch." Michael Jordan is more popular still on a worldwide scale, but mostly within the crowds that don't truly follow basketball. They recognize Jordan as a celebrity more then a basketball player. You'd also be surprised how many NBA games are on television here in France each week. Not to mention that jerseys are sold just about everywhere as well including the local team shops. When you wrote "what they need to understand is that not every generation will produce a Michael Jordan, and that it takes a long process to build a title contender." You realize that most European fans of their respective soccer, basketball and rugby clubs are content with them gaining European championship contention status or just not dropping out of the first division? Some of which their teams have never won in well over 100 years of existance and those same fans are still hanging strong and going to games every week even with little money to make. Things are much different in Europe because most of their teams are older then ours in just about every sport including our very own North American ones like ice hockey and basketball. When it comes to understanding about players coming and going of high respect there is no contention. Teams like Perugia and Lecce of the Calcio produce amazing players and then have to lose them before their prime to bigger teams. Same goes for their basketball organizations where as they lose their best talents to the NBA. It doesn't hurt the fans? Surely it does, but again it is much different. I found this all out when I wrote for a magazine here for a while. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Who was available in this past off-season that was a better player than Ben Wallace? Like I said the Bulls made a move to re-energize the fan base and begin to talks of "nba title" in Chicago once again. They made a smart move by signing Wallace to a front loaded contract, when the free agents that can become "franchise players" are on the market the large portion of Wallace's contract will already be off the books so it will not hinder them from pursuing those big names. Many felt the Bulls should have waited and spent their money in this upcoming free agent class, which at the time was projected to be very deep. However, with most teams locking up their young players the big names are pretty much gone off the market. The biggest names available now are Vince Carter and Rashard Lewis neither of which I feel would be a good fit for the Bulls considering Carters defects of the defensive side. Lewis is a guy who can put the ball in the whole but his position (small forward) is already loaded on the squad.</div> I feel picking up no player while waiting and building the final touches would've been a better situation given the severe depth issues the team has, which you again avoided to point out. The team's biggest problem is just that they have too much talent on the roster that require more playing time then what can be given. Sweetney went from a distinctive player to a bench warmer to the likes of Andre Barrett. What the hell is up with that? He has worked hard and produced solid numbers for a large rotation player the previous year and with time could only get better adjusting to the team system. He doesn't complain about it either, they need to reward the man for his efforts on and off the court and they surely are not. I agree that Rashard Lewis and Vince Carter would definitely not fit in with this team, but I don't think either player are remotely on the minds of Skiles or Paxson in terms of help. In other words, no need to focus on that crop of upcoming free agents. Those type of players will usually straggle around the free agency pool for quite some time and then 75 percent of the time re-sign with their last team given they have the funds because no one bothered to pick them up. Vince Carter in my honest opinion is nothing but a star with no potential to produce a team a championship as their big attraction. Rashard Lewis I can skip because you've already explained why he would not fit in to the team's heavy roster. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You don't give the organization enough credit. Do you expect them to draft a power forward knowing they have Tyrus Thomas waiting in the wings? However, hypothetically speaking let's say they did. Tyrus has the athletic ability to make an easy transition to either the two or the three in the future in my opinion. Also you are assuming the organization will even use the picks. What is stopping them from packaging the pick along with some young talent in order to get a star like Garnett? If they get a top five selection it will put them in perfect position to make a play for a scoring superstar.</div> I don't give this organization enough credit? You put that as if I was against them or had an agenda, which I don't. In fact I remember a few years ago when the Bulls were 3 and 15 most to start the season fans here on JBB wanted to basically scream, but again I explained that the Circus Tour (you know what that is don't you?) was the main cause of this start not to mention the time they need to adjust to playing together. What happened then is exactly as I had explained. I don't lose faith in my teams so don't accuse me of not giving this organization enough credit. Tyrus Thomas cannot play shooting guard and the team wouldn't allow it. The organization trainers are already starting to build him up as a power forward with good weight training regiments and weight gain diets. I don't know what in the world you're thinking there. Never did I even assume they would use the picks did I? No I did not. Please re-read then re adjust your statement. "Sure the draft can address our positions of need, only just depending on Sweetney and a few others not being re-signed next season. If the Bulls draft a power forward for instance what would be the point in trying to build up Tyrus Thomas? That's right, there is absolutely no point what-so-ever. I'm already unsatisfied with how the management is with Thabo Sefolosha's upbringing. Without more playing time his talent could be a huge waste. Mind you he isn't the same age as Tyrus Thomas and without proper motivation and playing time his career will be over before it even could begin." Point proven again. I also only stated I am displeased with how they are working with Thabo and the depth issues, not unsatisfied with the team in general. If they downsize the roster then the team will be able to find a better connection. Playing time for players that earn it is needed to build a good connection between teammates. Otherwise some of them will believe there is simply a popularity game. Skiles for instance uses this team as his stepping stone to fame. Clearly he acts as though he owns this team and that's another issue with management. Not to point that he should go anywhere, but he needs to cut down the size of his ego and realize he isn't the greatest strategic master in the world of basketball. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Although Rodman was great at getting the job done on the court, despite his extreme life style off of it, and could adjust to any situation back in the day. With the league the way it is today, and David Sterns zero tolerance rule on nonsense on the court and off I doubt Rodman in his prime or past it could survive a full season in David Sterns NBA. He would be fined and suspended repeatedly throughout the seasons and the rules the NBA have in play for conduct on the court would take away from Rodman's best attribute which is getting in opponents heads.</div> I never mentioned that he wouldn't get any suspensions in the current league system now did I? I wrote to you that he'd play the same if not better to his talents in his prime. Again hidden words are appearing and I'm starting to wonder. Rodman did many things to get into people's heads that were never noticed or called on. Have you ever seen him at a live game? I'm not sure if you have because the man's every move was basically done to annoy people and get into their heads. The way he ran up and down the court, the motions he made during breaks, he was a genius of mind games and the NBA would still not be intelligent enough to catch onto these and they couldn't prevent him from doing those simple things because they aren't against the rules. They cannot prevent or adjust a man from doing things that appear to be a part of his original personality, lifestyle and that aren't attitude issues other then a dress code or poor attitude otherwise the league would be a deep hole right now. The law would then come into that type of a situation. Not to mention other then a few incidents (like the camera man leg kick) Dennis wasn't actually that violent. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Actually, I believe that James/Wade are unrestricted free agents they signed three year extensions in order to have that right. So their teams do not have early bird rights to them. Although, they can try and resign them before the contract runs out I doubt both will be signed in time. Not to mention Lebron's intense desire to win, if the Cavs have not won when his contract is up who is to say for sure he will remain a Cav? Wade is a Chicago native who is to say he does not long to return home? First let me address KG. With the move they made that sent Curry to NY they essentially put themselves in perfect position to make a package for KG that would blow the competition away if it came down to that. Let's say the pick the Knicks gave us ends up as a top five pick we would have a top five pick, Tyrus Thomas, and a bunch of other pieces to trade in order to acquire KG. As far as Wade goes. If we pursue him in free agency we would not have to give up anything. If we are over the cap at that time we could easily arrange a sign and trade that would please both teams.</div> Wade and James can still be talked to by their respective teams in practice about contract situations in the future. That is the loop hole I learned about the NBA contract situations. They may not have the rights to signing them first on paper, but technically that's a bit full of crap. They can talk about prospects of a future situation and come to terms without the need for a signature or paperwork. Of course those ties can be broken at any given time, but players are easily coaxed by money in the end. Thing is nobody really knows what these players will do because that is up to them and their agents. We cannot accurately predict another man's actions. When the time comes for their contracts to end we will see what happens. Until then I'll remain focused on the team of choice and forget the rest in terms of contract deals until their is an option open for a trade or pick up. Kevin Garnett is likely not an option if the Bulls have to give up Luol Deng, who is now very likely going to be a definite piece in order for that deal to go through. The Wolves will know what they want and it would be a player like Deng with the inclusion of Ben Gordon, Kirk Hinrich and likely another depending on the size of each one's contract given the time a deal like this would be discussed to take place. My friends and I went to high school with Wade, you know. Two friends of mine are personal friends of his and know he didn't grow up a Bulls fan so I don't think he really cares much to return home to play for the team. Maybe to be closer to the family. I don't know, but it would be nice to see anyway. Actually the last time one of them spoke with Wade was five months ago where he told him he was more then content playing in Miami. Not to show off anyway, just thought you'd find that interesting to know as a fellow resident. A trade arranged for Wade would be better then KG in my honest opinion as long as we have a better roster situation. Once again, depth is the biggest issue right now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There is no assumption to something that already has been proven. The man [Ben Wallace] was never as good as Dennis Rodman who was signed to teams for a similar purpose on the court. Ben cannot match up to his contract and of course Shaq cannot either. This already shows you much purpose of the signing to help make up the cash loss within merch sales and popularity on a worldwide scale. The difference between us is that I get this information from a city sports lettering merch rep who informed me directly about this in a discussion while purchasing a Sabres jersey. The guy's business is professionally tied to the Bulls, White Sox, and Blackhawks organizations. As always I prefer to get my info from the facts. </div> Comparing two players from different eras the way you are doing with Rodman and Wallace is unfair, just because they have a similar role does not mean that their situations are slimier. The NBA makes a much larger revenue in terms of income these days than when Dennis Rodman played. Contracts are worth way more than what they use to be, thus the price for a player increases. It?s like the old saying goes your worth as much as a team is willing to pay to you, and in this day and era a player like Ben Wallace is worth 60 million for what he brings on the defensive end of the court. The goal of every NBA franchise when they sign players is to build a team that will win the NBA finals. If the Bulls do that and Wallace averages the numbers he was predicted to when he was signed how is he not worth his contract? I have no doubt that the increase in merchandise sale was definitely a big incentive in bringing Wallace to Chicago, but I highly doubt it was the major reason. Consider that 37% of the leagues/teams revenue comes from media (television contracts, advertising, etc.). Then another 44% comes from ticket and premium seat sales. That?s 81% of the teams revenue. The Bulls average great numbers in both those areas due to their location and the product they put on the court, so I don?t think the Bulls would be in any dire need to increase less than 20% of their revenue by bringing in a player who they didn?t think would take them to the next level. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Sure, let's. Of course they are not at the same level as last season and nowhere did I make that my opinion. Last season they were not pictured in the NBA championship highlight despite still having Ben Wallace. Think about it and you'll notice the majority of people had Miami on their list plain and simple. I didn't have them [Detroit] in my pool either. That is entirely different then the year they were pictured to be smashed by the Lakers where I originally stated that they would beat them in a sweep and that if the Lakers were lucky they would pull one out in a thriller. Sickeningly strange enough it turned out to be just that because the NBA is still quite predictable compared to other leagues when it comes down to the end. Another example is that Phoenix were touted as a contender so many years. You cannot go deep with their style of play in a difficult Playoff run. Based on team talent in the Eastern Conference anyone could say the Pistons are still an elite team based on that [Eastern] level and they are. The Cavs are another along with the Heat, Magic and Bulls. They're all about in equal form and that's not saying much seeing that the East is very weak, more so then ever before. </div> Last season everyone you asked (nonbiased opinion) who is the best team in the eastern conference. There was Detroit and Miami, then the rest of the eastern conference. This year that is hardly the case. Although you might not have felt that the Pistons were the team that was going to come out of eastern conference, as you yourself stated they were a far superior team last season opposed to the current one, and why is that? Because the defensive presence Wallace brought with his help side defense allowed them to hide the flaws of other defenders on the team, flaws that have been made more apparent this season with the lesser talent playing the position. I for one no longer consider them an elite title contending team. They have been just a smudge better than the other teams in the eastern conference up to this point, but that is not saying much. By the time the New Year is rung in tonight the Bulls might be in 1st place in the conference, will the balance of power be shifted once/if that happens? Last season the Pistons ranked number one in the league in opponent turnovers, they ranked third in the league in blocks, total defense, and had an astounding record of 45-6 when scoring over 96 points in a game. In this young season the Pistons defense, although still one of the top in the league has fallen to the seventh overall defense in the league. If Wallace is an ?overrated? defender and overall player as people have made him out to be then what other factor can be attributed to the fall? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ben Wallace has good intangibles that's for certain, but again he does not live up to that contract. Arguing with Scott Skiles is a big factor in showing carelessness. Why is that you'll surely want to know? Skiles and Paxson discussed contract deals with him alone, face to face for hours including team ideas and function and thus there is no sense to why he acted that way knowing how the team works on and off the court beforehand. I remember in an interview with Skiles during the fall before the season started he discussed with local media about how he and Paxson thoroughly explained their intentions and team situation to Ben. Given that he knew about everything before the season started, well, there is no further need for explaination from him now is there?</div> How do you know for certain that Skiles discussed the head band issue with Wallace prior to the contract signing? Unless you were in the meeting room with them its all a matter of who?s word you believe. I have heard reports that Skiles never mentioned the headband issue with Wallace prior to him signing a contract with the team. Not only that, but all the advertisements once Wallace signed with Chicago, had Wallace wearing a headband in a Chicago uniform. Although, they were superimposed, why put something like that out there if it will not be allowed to happen? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The league's rules for this season haven't changed too drastically from the previous one where fouls were issued far worse then they are today. Hinrich is having trouble playing because he is suffering from an injury that the media do not know about yet. A freind of mine who sat behind the team a few games so far this season noticed a problem with his thigh each time. he received special treatments during commercial breaks for this injury so yes he is lagging on an injury and still playing fairly well anyway, yet I see so many people nagging at him despite the fact that I reported this at least a month ago. Of course you know that not all injuries are reported in the league, most of the time not until they come into full bloom and are exposed when the player can no longer withstand the pain. This depends of course on the popularity of the player as well. Popularity, merch sales and the like fall into the NBA's point of view of media subjects and awards for the most part as well. it has been this way since the early 90's.</div> Was Hinrich suffering from this injury in training camp? Because the first couple of weeks is when he severely struggled staying on the court. The NBA told its officials over the summer that whenever there was a questionable call such as a charge/blocking foul, to favor the offensive player. That was something that hurt Hinrich?s ability as a defender because it took away from a major part of his game. It was something he needed to adjust to in order to be successful and it took him a while to do it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not displeased at all, but again I can't agree with every move my favorite team makes just because I've followed them for 19 years. Also you have no idea of European basketball fans because in truth you will mostly see fans here wearing Scottie Pippen or Toni Kukoc jerseys. When I asked a few of them at basketball games who their favorite players were only a few times did Michael Jordan come up and when he did it was more like "I love Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan was a great player too. The team was very fun to watch." Michael Jordan is more popular still on a worldwide scale, but mostly within the crowds that don't truly follow basketball. They recognize Jordan as a celebrity more then a basketball player. You'd also be surprised how many NBA games are on television here in France each week. Not to mention that jerseys are sold just about everywhere as well including the local team shops. When you wrote "what they need to understand is that not every generation will produce a Michael Jordan, and that it takes a long process to build a title contender." You realize that most European fans of their respective soccer, basketball and rugby clubs are content with them gaining European championship contention status or just not dropping out of the first division? Some of which their teams have never won in well over 100 years of existance and those same fans are still hanging strong and going to games every week even with little money to make. Things are much different in Europe because most of their teams are older then ours in just about every sport including our very own North American ones like ice hockey and basketball. When it comes to understanding about players coming and going of high respect there is no contention. Teams like Perugia and Lecce of the Calcio produce amazing players and then have to lose them before their prime to bigger teams. Same goes for their basketball organizations where as they lose their best talents to the NBA. It doesn't hurt the fans? Surely it does, but again it is much different. I found this all out when I wrote for a magazine here for a while. </div> I?m going to be honest, I?m not really going to act like I know what goes on in Europe as I have never been to the area myself, so I will take you word for it. You have been through more life experiences than I in that area so there is nothing really for me to say to dispute what you are telling me. However, let me just get something out of the way right now. I in no way support every move that my favorite team makes. I was completely stricken with grief when the Bulls traded Elton Brand for basically no one, signed no name players to huge contracts, and brought in players way past their prime for so many years when trying to rebuild the team following the dynasty era. However, for the most part I agree with the majority of the moves John Paxson has made as they have ultimately worked out for the best. John Paxson took a roster that Krause had struggled to rebuild for several years, and in a mere three years managed to make them a contender once again. I don?t know how you cannot agree with the moves he has made. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I feel picking up no player while waiting and building the final touches would've been a better situation given the severe depth issues the team has, which you again avoided to point out. The team's biggest problem is just that they have too much talent on the roster that require more playing time then what can be given. Sweetney went from a distinctive player to a bench warmer to the likes of Andre Barrett. What the hell is up with that? He has worked hard and produced solid numbers for a large rotation player the previous year and with time could only get better adjusting to the team system. He doesn't complain about it either, they need to reward the man for his efforts on and off the court and they surely are not. </div> I actually posted a thread about the depth issues we were having on the team a while ago in this very forum. However, too much talent is a problem that any GM would be happy to have. Although, we have many guys sitting on our bench, that would be regular day players on other teams, isn?t that a tribute to the job Paxson is doing getting the right type of players in here? Most teams in the NBA are an injury away from mediocrity. With the depth we have I can honestly say we are not one of them. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't give this organization enough credit? You put that as if I was against them or had an agenda, which I don't. In fact I remember a few years ago when the Bulls were 3 and 15 most to start the season fans here on JBB wanted to basically scream, but again I explained that the Circus Tour (you know what that is don't you?) was the main cause of this start not to mention the time they need to adjust to playing together. What happened then is exactly as I had explained. I don't lose faith in my teams so don't accuse me of not giving this organization enough credit. Tyrus Thomas cannot play shooting guard and the team wouldn't allow it. The organization trainers are already starting to build him up as a power forward with good weight training regiments and weight gain diets. I don't know what in the world you're thinking there. Never did I even assume they would use the picks did I? No I did not. Please re-read then re adjust your statement. "Sure the draft can address our positions of need, only just depending on Sweetney and a few others not being re-signed next season. If the Bulls draft a power forward for instance what would be the point in trying to build up Tyrus Thomas? That's right, there is absolutely no point what-so-ever. I'm already unsatisfied with how the management is with Thabo Sefolosha's upbringing. Without more playing time his talent could be a huge waste. Mind you he isn't the same age as Tyrus Thomas and without proper motivation and playing time his career will be over before it even could begin." Point proven again. I also only stated I am displeased with how they are working with Thabo and the depth issues, not unsatisfied with the team in general. If they downsize the roster then the team will be able to find a better connection. Playing time for players that earn it is needed to build a good connection between teammates. Otherwise some of them will believe there is simply a popularity game. Skiles for instance uses this team as his stepping stone to fame. Clearly he acts as though he owns this team and that's another issue with management. Not to point that he should go anywhere, but he needs to cut down the size of his ego and realize he isn't the greatest strategic master in the world of basketball. </div> Well you did say ?I'm not displeased at all, but again I can't agree with every move my favorite team makes just because I've followed them for 19 years? and that ?They, like me, don't understand what the hell the management is doing right now? so I wasn?t exactly sure what your opinions of the organization were, which was why I was asking for some clarification. Tyrus Thomas when he was drafted stated he would prefer to play small forward over power forward, but would do whatever the team asked of him. During his private workouts he showed the range to play small forward, and also showed some range in the summer league games down in Orlando. Do I think he would ever be made into a two guard? No, however, if he can play small forward, who is to say with improved ball handling skills he could not spend sometime at the two as well? Let me take this opportunity to reiterate that I am not trying to attack your allegiance to the team, or your intelligence by any mean, your stance is very well defended and debated, and I have a great deal of respect for your opinion. I just wanted to make this clear as you seem to have gotten offended by my statements in my prior posts. I too am not pleased with the erratic playing time Thabo has received however their simple is not enough playing time to go around at the moment. With the emergence of Ben Gordon over the force of this season thus far it has taken some more playing time away from Thabo. Gordon is averaging over 20 points a game and performing much better than the organization probably anticipated. Thabo was projected to be an NBA ready player, so I feel the organization drafted him as more of an insurance policy to Gordon should he have struggled more than anything. Am I saying he is not part of our future? Not at all he is a versatile defender and will find his niche sooner or later. However, it will take a little bit longer than anticipated because of how well Gordon has been playing. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I never mentioned that he wouldn't get any suspensions in the current league system now did I? I wrote to you that he'd play the same if not better to his talents in his prime. Again hidden words are appearing and I'm starting to wonder. Rodman did many things to get into people's heads that were never noticed or called on. Have you ever seen him at a live game? I'm not sure if you have because the man's every move was basically done to annoy people and get into their heads. The way he ran up and down the court, the motions he made during breaks, he was a genius of mind games and the NBA would still not be intelligent enough to catch onto these and they couldn't prevent him from doing those simple things because they aren't against the rules. They cannot prevent or adjust a man from doing things that appear to be a part of his original personality, lifestyle and that aren't attitude issues other then a dress code or poor attitude otherwise the league would be a deep hole right now. The law would then come into that type of a situation. Not to mention other then a few incidents (like the camera man leg kick) Dennis wasn't actually that violent. </div> Where in my post did I infer that you stated he would not get suspended? I was stating my opinion on why Rodman would not be effective. To be effective you would have to be on the court a majority of the season would you not? With his outburst and antics I doubt he could survive in the modern day NBA. Sure he could still get the job done to a certain extent while on the court do to his mind games he could still play with his opponents. But the leash the NBA has put on the players as far as jawing at the officials, delaying the game, the defensive three second rule, and other things would factor into taking away from what he use to be able to do. Not saying that he would not still be an effective player, not saying he could not somewhat adjust to these things. However, he would not put up the monster bloated numbers he did on the boards. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wade and James can still be talked to by their respective teams in practice about contract situations in the future. That is the loop hole I learned about the NBA contract situations. They may not have the rights to signing them first on paper, but technically that's a bit full of crap. They can talk about prospects of a future situation and come to terms without the need for a signature or paperwork. Of course those ties can be broken at any given time, but players are easily coaxed by money in the end. Thing is nobody really knows what these players will do because that is up to them and their agents. We cannot accurately predict another man's actions. When the time comes for their contracts to end we will see what happens. Until then I'll remain focused on the team of choice and forget the rest in terms of contract deals until their is an option open for a trade or pick up. Kevin Garnett is likely not an option if the Bulls have to give up Luol Deng, who is now very likely going to be a definite piece in order for that deal to go through. The Wolves will know what they want and it would be a player like Deng with the inclusion of Ben Gordon, Kirk Hinrich and likely another depending on the size of each one's contract given the time a deal like this would be discussed to take place. My friends and I went to high school with Wade, you know. Two friends of mine are personal friends of his and know he didn't grow up a Bulls fan so I don't think he really cares much to return home to play for the team. Maybe to be closer to the family. I don't know, but it would be nice to see anyway. Actually the last time one of them spoke with Wade was five months ago where he told him he was more then content playing in Miami. Not to show off anyway, just thought you'd find that interesting to know as a fellow resident. A trade arranged for Wade would be better then KG in my honest opinion as long as we have a better roster situation. Once again, depth is the biggest issue right now.</div> I find it interesting to hear that he was not a Bulls fan growing up. In some interviews I have seen he has stated how he loved watching the Bulls growing up and watching Jordan, growing up in Chicago was great, etc. However, even if he is not a Bulls fan that does not mean he would shun a return to the city of Chicago simple for the love of playing in his hometown. I am sure he is content at the momentum having one the title, playing in Miami. However, with Shaq declining, it will be interesting to see how he feels in three years from now. Returning to Garnett for a moment I think the Iverson deal lowered what teams will be willing to offer for Garnett, having seen what the market offered for a former MVP in Iverson. I expect teams to low ball Minnesota, what will put us in a great situation would be if he demanded a trade and the team had no choice but to trade him, in which case we would not have to worry about what the Wolves demanded, we would only have to worry about beating out the competitions offers. I?m not saying we will get any of these players, but financially we will be in a position to at least make a run. Like you said money speaks to these players, and if you look at their shoes contracts, etc. they benefit from playing in a large market city.
<div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Comparing two players from different eras the way you are doing with Rodman and Wallace is unfair, just because they have a similar role does not mean that their situations are slimier. The NBA makes a much larger revenue in terms of income these days than when Dennis Rodman played. Contracts are worth way more than what they use to be, thus the price for a player increases. It?s like the old saying goes your worth as much as a team is willing to pay to you, and in this day and era a player like Ben Wallace is worth 60 million for what he brings on the defensive end of the court. The goal of every NBA franchise when they sign players is to build a team that will win the NBA finals. If the Bulls do that and Wallace averages the numbers he was predicted to when he was signed how is he not worth his contract? I have no doubt that the increase in merchandise sale was definitely a big incentive in bringing Wallace to Chicago, but I highly doubt it was the major reason. Consider that 37% of the leagues/teams revenue comes from media (television contracts, advertising, etc.). Then another 44% comes from ticket and premium seat sales. That?s 81% of the teams revenue. The Bulls average great numbers in both those areas due to their location and the product they put on the court, so I don?t think the Bulls would be in any dire need to increase less than 20% of their revenue by bringing in a player who they didn?t think would take them to the next level.</div> Comparing talent is fine, but extact contracts is a no-no of course as you mentioned the money is a difference. Truthfully it is beyond comparison. However, based on the differences on then and now with contracts, given Rodman could play today at the same level even he is not worth 60 million dollars. That is the real point I'm trying to make here with Ben Wallace. Sure his contract is set up decently, but the point is the Bulls really signed him for marketing purposes more then anything else and that is what bothers me and many other fans and journalists. You must understand that the Bulls could've done much more with their money then that in the future. Wallace's merch sale increase and marketability will still not make up for the contract they're paying him. If they could've signed him for less, which wouldn't have happened but let's make it so they did, then the team could easily make up for the loss in cash that could go towards signing a better player in the future when contracts will likely be even higher before the next lock-out. That is clearly inevitable. His numbers still do not reflect his contract because even if he would play to the standard the team has hopes for, that price tag is not worth it. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Last season everyone you asked (nonbiased opinion) who is the best team in the eastern conference. There was Detroit and Miami, then the rest of the eastern conference. This year that is hardly the case. Although you might not have felt that the Pistons were the team that was going to come out of eastern conference, as you yourself stated they were a far superior team last season opposed to the current one, and why is that? Because the defensive presence Wallace brought with his help side defense allowed them to hide the flaws of other defenders on the team, flaws that have been made more apparent this season with the lesser talent playing the position. I for one no longer consider them an elite title contending team. They have been just a smudge better than the other teams in the eastern conference up to this point, but that is not saying much. By the time the New Year is rung in tonight the Bulls might be in 1st place in the conference, will the balance of power be shifted once/if that happens? Last season the Pistons ranked number one in the league in opponent turnovers, they ranked third in the league in blocks, total defense, and had an astounding record of 45-6 when scoring over 96 points in a game. In this young season the Pistons defense, although still one of the top in the league has fallen to the seventh overall defense in the league. If Wallace is an ?overrated? defender and overall player as people have made him out to be then what other factor can be attributed to the fall?</div> You read before that I put that several Eastern Conference teams are in equal form and that anything goes basically. There is no elite squad in the East and there likely won't be one this season unless some if not one of those teams can do something to fix their basic issues. Really though, some of which cannot be helped without time to progress (Miami). Depth again comes to mind for the Bulls, which I will get to below. Again the Pistons were a great team when they defeated the Lakers years ago, the following season we (or at least I did) already seen a drop despite the build up of being defending champions. The Pistons are not what they used to be, but that doesn't entirely attribute to the loss of Ben Wallace as the decline was clear to be something else already two years ago. Seriously, age or personal issues unknown about are likely the answer to that question. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How do you know for certain that Skiles discussed the head band issue with Wallace prior to the contract signing? Unless you were in the meeting room with them its all a matter of who?s word you believe. I have heard reports that Skiles never mentioned the headband issue with Wallace prior to him signing a contract with the team. Not only that, but all the advertisements once Wallace signed with Chicago, had Wallace wearing a headband in a Chicago uniform. Although, they were superimposed, why put something like that out there if it will not be allowed to happen?</div> I doubt Skiles discussed the headband issue, but that isn't what I was pointing at before anyway. You remember that after Skiles addressed that he should stop wearing it Ben told the media that he would do as he wanted basically. That is what I was getting to and as a player of his stature that was a bit shameful, don't you think? That's something most teenagers wouldn't do during a junior high school league game. The adverts are not on behalf of the Bulls management but rather their marketing department. I doubt that Skiles or Paxson have much to do with that. It gave the wrong message to people and that is partially management's fault for not addressing it beforehand. I find it strange myelf though that there really is much of an issue with it in general. Ok it is done for style more then a need, but it isn't like the dress code in the back coming to the stadiums. The players should be able to make a choice for that simple small thing, this isn't the Yankees organization for God's sake. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Was Hinrich suffering from this injury in training camp? Because the first couple of weeks is when he severely struggled staying on the court. The NBA told its officials over the summer that whenever there was a questionable call such as a charge/blocking foul, to favor the offensive player. That was something that hurt Hinrich?s ability as a defender because it took away from a major part of his game. It was something he needed to adjust to in order to be successful and it took him a while to do it.</div> Supposedly from what I know of he's been suffering from this injury since the pre-season. I have no idea exactly how bad it is and neither does my friend who's been noticing this, but I suspect he is right that Kirk has a problem as he was right before in predicting other injuries during games before the media got their messy hands in the situation. I for one just hope he'll come out fine and that this isn't a serious lagging injury. The Bulls don't need that as we all know Kirk is a very intelligent player and the team captain without a doubt. You don't want your captain out for a long period of time during the regular season or Playoffs. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I?m going to be honest, I?m not really going to act like I know what goes on in Europe as I have never been to the area myself, so I will take you word for it. You have been through more life experiences than I in that area so there is nothing really for me to say to dispute what you are telling me. However, let me just get something out of the way right now. I in no way support every move that my favorite team makes. I was completely stricken with grief when the Bulls traded Elton Brand for basically no one, signed no name players to huge contracts, and brought in players way past their prime for so many years when trying to rebuild the team following the dynasty era. However, for the most part I agree with the majority of the moves John Paxson has made as they have ultimately worked out for the best. John Paxson took a roster that Krause had struggled to rebuild for several years, and in a mere three years managed to make them a contender once again. I don?t know how you cannot agree with the moves he has made. I actually posted a thread about the depth issues we were having on the team a while ago in this very forum. However, too much talent is a problem that any GM would be happy to have. Although, we have many guys sitting on our bench, that would be regular day players on other teams, isn?t that a tribute to the job Paxson is doing getting the right type of players in here? Most teams in the NBA are an injury away from mediocrity. With the depth we have I can honestly say we are not one of them.</div> You know me long enough on here to know I'm not going to lie. People even mentioned to me privately that I wasn't even in France and that I just wanted attention, but yet I provide pictures very often and much more. There is no need for me to garnish attention when I have a fianc?e to spend time with rather then an Internet forum. However, I like to provide you all with top information, usually going out of my way to get whatever I can provide especially things that others don't even know about. Anyway, Paxson has made some good moves. Actually he didn't even take three years to build a great team through his GM role that came sooner. I give him full credit for picking up a lot of players for more depth, but he should be aware that more depth means less playing time for certain players unless you want a ruckus. We don't need bad chemistry in the locker room and that seems to be an issue at the moment. They need to drop some players and if they do they will still lose more next year when they likely will not pick up some expiring contracts like P.J. Brown's. That will give them roster space, but right now they need the roster space. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well you did say ?I'm not displeased at all, but again I can't agree with every move my favorite team makes just because I've followed them for 19 years? and that ?They, like me, don't understand what the hell the management is doing right now? so I wasn?t exactly sure what your opinions of the organization were, which was why I was asking for some clarification.</div> I think that sums it up well enough that while I cannot support every decision they make I will always be a fan. Right now and this season in general is that time I can't agree with what they are doing. Perhaps you understand it this way better. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Tyrus Thomas when he was drafted stated he would prefer to play small forward over power forward, but would do whatever the team asked of him. During his private workouts he showed the range to play small forward, and also showed some range in the summer league games down in Orlando. Do I think he would ever be made into a two guard? No, however, if he can play small forward, who is to say with improved ball handling skills he could not spend sometime at the two as well?</div> Tyrus knows that there are too many small forwards. The staff knows there are too many small forwards. Technically with Noc and Deng you can't actually "have enough" per say, but there just wouldn't be enough room for a player of Tyrus' talent to fit in with that crowd and he wouldn't have much playing time. Noc could be built into a power forward, but Skiles isn't taking that direction. Clearly not with Noc firing all those three pointers this season. With the Gordon, Hinrich and Duhon rotation at the two guard positions there is no room for Tyrus there, that is my point, plus as mentioned the team has no care to appoint him to train for that. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Let me take this opportunity to reiterate that I am not trying to attack your allegiance to the team, or your intelligence by any mean, your stance is very well defended and debated, and I have a great deal of respect for your opinion. I just wanted to make this clear as you seem to have gotten offended by my statements in my prior posts.</div> No issue at all, I was just making it clear that I am in no means a hater or have defected away just because Ben Wallace wasn't a great signing in my opinion. I also respect your opinion and if you'd take a look in the New Years Bulls thread I even basically gave you your reckognition putting down that Bulls fans are the best to debate with. I was also refering to Nakz, who also held up his own against me in the now dead Bulls debates. By the way, any idea where he's been anyway? <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I too am not pleased with the erratic playing time Thabo has received however their simple is not enough playing time to go around at the moment. With the emergence of Ben Gordon over the force of this season thus far it has taken some more playing time away from Thabo. Gordon is averaging over 20 points a game and performing much better than the organization probably anticipated. Thabo was projected to be an NBA ready player, so I feel the organization drafted him as more of an insurance policy to Gordon should he have struggled more than anything. Am I saying he is not part of our future? Not at all he is a versatile defender and will find his niche sooner or later. However, it will take a little bit longer than anticipated because of how well Gordon has been playing.</div> That is my point proven again that there is not enough playing time for certain players that need it. Thabo needs good playing time to evolve and if not attended to his career could be a huge flop. Players that do not receive good playing time often die out no matter how talented they are. understandably Gordon is playing well, but the depth is causing important prospects and other players to falter out. We don't need Thabo to lose confidence in himself. Viktor is another player that should be given more playing time, but the team cannot give it to him despite the fact that he has played well during pre-season and has gone well over his expectations. No reward equals bad problems. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Where in my post did I infer that you stated he would not get suspended? I was stating my opinion on why Rodman would not be effective. To be effective you would have to be on the court a majority of the season would you not? With his outburst and antics I doubt he could survive in the modern day NBA. Sure he could still get the job done to a certain extent while on the court do to his mind games he could still play with his opponents. But the leash the NBA has put on the players as far as jawing at the officials, delaying the game, the defensive three second rule, and other things would factor into taking away from what he use to be able to do. Not saying that he would not still be an effective player, not saying he could not somewhat adjust to these things. However, he would not put up the monster bloated numbers he did on the boards.</div> "I never mentioned that he wouldn't get any suspensions in the current league system now did I? I wrote to you that he'd play the same if not better to his talents in his prime." You actually brought up the situation of suspensions -- "He would be fined and suspended repeatedly throughout the seasons and the rules the NBA have in play for conduct on the court would take away from Rodman's best attribute which is getting in opponents heads." After any suspensions repeatadly I think even Dennis would understand what he can and cannot do and do his best to avoid it. Even he, with all of his issues, understood that. Putting up the same numbers he used if he were in his prime today I don't doubt it. The man was a machine. Also note that Phil Jackson was quoted once as mentioning Dennis Rodman to be "able to adapt to any changes or situations." I think that applies. There is still debate whether Dennis deserves a hall of fame position or not. I highly doubt it because of his former lifestyle. Though that is really a shame. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I find it interesting to hear that he was not a Bulls fan growing up. In some interviews I have seen he has stated how he loved watching the Bulls growing up and watching Jordan, growing up in Chicago was great, etc. However, even if he is not a Bulls fan that does not mean he would shun a return to the city of Chicago simple for the love of playing in his hometown. I am sure he is content at the momentum having one the title, playing in Miami. However, with Shaq declining, it will be interesting to see how he feels in three years from now.</div> Well as I mentioned he probably would come back for family (if they live here still) or for money, you never know. I was just giving you something interesting to know. Whatever happens, let it be in good health. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Returning to Garnett for a moment I think the Iverson deal lowered what teams will be willing to offer for Garnett, having seen what the market offered for a former MVP in Iverson. I expect teams to low ball Minnesota, what will put us in a great situation would be if he demanded a trade and the team had no choice but to trade him, in which case we would not have to worry about what the Wolves demanded, we would only have to worry about beating out the competitions offers.</div> The Wolves aren't in that severe of a situation to deal Garnett for little expense. That's why i don't think it will happen without us dealing Deng and another good player that we don't plan on losing anytime soon. If they can pull something without key players then go for it, but that is highly doubtful if not impossible at this point in time. <div class="quote_poster">GameFace Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I?m not saying we will get any of these players, but financially we will be in a position to at least make a run. Like you said money speaks to these players, and if you look at their shoes contracts, etc. they benefit from playing in a large market city.</div> Exactly right, money talks my friend. Anyway I have to cut this short in the end because New Year's is just around the corner. Have a good one until you reach 2007 in seven hours from now. Until then, you're stuck in the past!
<div class="quote_poster">MrJ Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Would you rather have Eddy Curry or Tyrus Thomas? </div>If their contracts were equal sized, then definitely Eddy Curry.
Paxson might even go as small as getting Melvin Ely. Melvin Ely brings size, energy, and post-skillz. Im not saying hes not trying to get Pau Gasol but u know........
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Bulls brought a 19-12 record into their home game Tuesday night against the Phoenix Suns. It's their best start since 1997-98, when they went on to finish the regular season 62-20 and win the organization's sixth and last championship. Still, general manager John Paxson is looking for a chance to improve his team's talent. ''The one thing we'd all like is a guy who can play with his back to the basket and score those buckets inside,'' he said. ''Someone we could run some offense through. But you can't expect to call another team and strike up a conversation about a great player. We'll just continue to keep our eyes and ears open and hope, if something does break, we can be in the game. ''That's all you can ask for. You look at the [Allen] Iverson thing that went down, and there were teams that really felt he fit them. But you have to be in a position to get in the game with the assets you have. It's safe to say, if there's a guy who comes on the market we think is going to make our team that much better than we are now, then you talk about looking at multiple assets, giving up some young guys. We're not at that point, and I don't know of any of those guys being available right now.'' </div> Source
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Blur:</div><div class="quote_post"> Still Thomas. If we had kept Curry, paying him the price he was asking, we likely would have never signed Ben Wallace, nor made some of the other moves we made this past off season such as extending Hinrich before he hit the open market. Not to mention still having the option to trade picks with the Knicks in this years draft, and go from picking most likely in the late 20's to the lottery, in what is projected to be one of the deepest drafts ever. not to mention Tyrus is a project, who has not received playing time, no one knows how good he will be yet.</div> Curry could have been kept, it was just a decision between him or Chandler. The Bulls signed Chandler to a lucrative deal and ended wound up trading him a year later. But I understand that move and hindsight is 20/20, so you can’t exactly criticize the Bulls’ decision. The Knicks play in the worst division and are only a single game out of first place. How is it likely they will be in the lottery? It’s a possibility, but definitely not a given, especially the way they have been playing as of late. It’s very possible the Bulls will be swapping pick 15-16 with 21-22, which isn’t that much of an improvement. And as M-Two pointed out, what good will yet another young player be when Chicago has solidified their young core at every position? Chances are that rookie will be low in the rotation and getting bench minutes like Tyrus Thomas. Also how can the Bulls expect to mold a project if he’s not getting any minutes? Ben Wallace, and his $60 million contract, is manning the middle and Nocioni will still be ahead of him in a couple of years. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Eddy Curry has never been, nor will ever be the defensive force that Wallace is, I don't know about you but regardless of the points Curry gives us down low I would rather have Wallace than Curry. Curry is a horrible rebounder for a man his size, and remains out of shape despite having a huge contract to motivate him. Also by having Wallace not only does it add to our roster, it also takes away from what the Pistons are doing. If the Pistons still had Wallace there is no doubt in my mind that they would be the clear cut favorites in the east at this point instead of bundled amidst the pack.</div> Eddy Curry still isn’t a good defender, but he’s been making steady improvements. Wallace is a superior defender no doubt, but is equally as bad on offense as Curry is on defense, if not, worse. Curry also has improved his rebounding. At first glance you’ll notice that he averages 7.2 rebounds. However, you have to mention the Knicks team rebounding. As a team, the Knicks are 1st in rebounds per game, 10th in limiting opponents’ rebounds, and second in rebounding differential. So as you can see, Curry’s rebounding numbers aren’t as high as they could be since he plays for one of the league’s better rebounding team. Curry remains out of shape? The last time Curry came to the season out of shape was because he was advised not to do any physical activity with his heart problem. Coming into this season after signing his multi-year contract, Curry was in the best shape of his life. And he’s been playing many minutes this season. In fact, the past five games Curry has been averaging just about 40 minutes per game. So how does Curry remain out of shape? The Pistons aren’t the “clear-cut” favorites to win the East, but they are still probably in a better position than Chicago to win it. Cleveland and the reigning champs Miami can’t be counted out either.
IIRC the Bulls wanted to re-sign Curry, but they had concerns about his heart ailment. They were adament about Curry taking a blood test and run more tests to determine he risk involved. He refused to take the test so the Bulls had to trade him. The Bulls also offered to sign him for 1 year with an option for year 2 so they could evaluate his status. Curry wanted guaranteed money and a longer term deal.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Curry could have been kept, it was just a decision between him or Chandler. The Bulls signed Chandler to a lucrative deal and ended wound up trading him a year later. But I understand that move and hindsight is 20/20, so you can?t exactly criticize the Bulls? decision. The Knicks play in the worst division and are only a single game out of first place. How is it likely they will be in the lottery? It?s a possibility, but definitely not a given, especially the way they have been playing as of late. It?s very possible the Bulls will be swapping pick 15-16 with 21-22, which isn?t that much of an improvement. And as M-Two pointed out, what good will yet another young player be when Chicago has solidified their young core at every position? Chances are that rookie will be low in the rotation and getting bench minutes like Tyrus Thomas. Also how can the Bulls expect to mold a project if he?s not getting any minutes? Ben Wallace, and his $60 million contract, is manning the middle and Nocioni will still be ahead of him in a couple of years. </div> The Knicks are in an interesting situation, either they make the playoffs, or they get a high lottery pick, I expect the latter to happen. Even though the east, particularly the Atlantic divison, is extremely weak. I doubt the Knicks, in the long run will finish with a better record than either the Raptors or Nets. The Raptors have played an extended stint this season without Chris Bosh and are still a game or two out of first place. While the Nets have proven in the past they are a second half team. Its like I said before just having this pick does not necessarily mean we will choose to use it. We could easily package that pick for a superstar player, or as a piece in a sign and trade deal. How does Chicago expect to mold a project without playing time? The same way the Lakers did it with Andrew Bynum this past season. By having him hit a specific weight program/diet to raise his playing weight. Playing with Ben Wallace everyday in practice does not hurt either. He is still 19 years old he has plenty of time left in the league to become the player everyone expects. Also something I have not even mentioned up until this point is that, if we draft these young guys, they will offer us a bit of insurance for the future. For example if we are not able to resign all of Nocioni/Gordon/Deng then we still might have Thabo/Tyrus to step in and fill the void that was left. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Eddy Curry still isn?t a good defender, but he?s been making steady improvements. Wallace is a superior defender no doubt, but is equally as bad on offense as Curry is on defense, if not, worse. Curry also has improved his rebounding. At first glance you?ll notice that he averages 7.2 rebounds. However, you have to mention the Knicks team rebounding. As a team, the Knicks are 1st in rebounds per game, 10th in limiting opponents? rebounds, and second in rebounding differential. So as you can see, Curry?s rebounding numbers aren?t as high as they could be since he plays for one of the league?s better rebounding team. </div> Wallace has improved his offensive game a bit since coming to Chicago, in my opinion. Although, he is still mediocre on his best day, he is worked into the offensive game plan, and a player who has to be respected. You can not offer Curry a cope out by mentioning the Knicks team defense, you and I both know that a majority of those rebounds come from David Lee, and that Curry was/has been a poor rebounded his entire career. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Curry remains out of shape? The last time Curry came to the season out of shape was because he was advised not to do any physical activity with his heart problem. Coming into this season after signing his multi-year contract, Curry was in the best shape of his life. And he?s been playing many minutes this season. In fact, the past five games Curry has been averaging just about 40 minutes per game. So how does Curry remain out of shape? </div> The thing that always stopped Curry from playing big minutes was the fact he always remained in foul trouble. Although, his weight played a factor, it was not the only factor. You look at Curry and another player at the same position side to side, you can see that Curry is still closer to the out of shape than in shape margin. Shaq played all those minutes for so many years in Los Angeles/his first season in Miami. Does that mean he was always in good shape? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">IIRC the Bulls wanted to re-sign Curry, but they had concerns about his heart ailment. They were adament about Curry taking a blood test and run more tests to determine he risk involved. He refused to take the test so the Bulls had to trade him. The Bulls also offered to sign him for 1 year with an option for year 2 so they could evaluate his status. Curry wanted guaranteed money and a longer term deal.</div> Yeah, the Bulls offered him 10,000 dollars for the next 40 years regardless of the test results simple because they were concerned about his health. However, Curry refused. However, they asked Paxson a while ago if he would take back the Curry trade if he could, and Paxson just smiled and said I believe something along the lines of no chance or no comment. As he had just acquired the 2nd overall pick, as well as a chance at a high lottery pick the following season.
