http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?pa...ydime-061230-31 Steve Nash as the West MVP?? I love Steve, but with the way Diaw has emerged lately and with Amare back - he basically has 3 ALL-STAR caliber players in his starting line-up, so he definitely has his weapons. The MVP of the West is clearly Carlos Boozer imo. 21.6 and 11.7 on 36 minutes and 54% shooting? Without him in the line-up they do not have an aggressive frontcourt scorer. Kirilenko almost never looks to score and Okur's game is more catch at the basket or 3 point. Boozer is to Utah what Stoudemire is to Phoenix. Mush as I admire Kobe, when you shoot 45 times like he did the other night against a team like the Bobcats and the team loses, you are automatically removed from MVP talk. And when you talk about system, a lot of people say the system Phoenix runs is why Nash looks so good, well believe me the Phil jackson system is a big part of the Lakers success. Then Michael Redd as the East MVP? Hmm. I have to give it to one of the Pistons - Chauncey or Rip Hamilton. Orlando's lost too many important games for it to go to Dwight. And Washington is totally inconsistent to give it to Gilbert.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?pa...ydime-061230-31 Steve Nash as the West MVP?? I love Steve, but with the way Diaw has emerged lately and with Amare back - he basically has 3 ALL-STAR caliber players in his starting line-up, so he definitely has his weapons. The MVP of the West is clearly Carlos Boozer imo. 21.6 and 11.7 on 36 minutes and 54% shooting? Without him in the line-up they do not have an aggressive frontcourt scorer. Kirilenko almost never looks to score and Okur's game is more catch at the basket or 3 point. Boozer is to Utah what Stoudemire is to Phoenix. Mush as I admire Kobe, when you shoot 45 times like he did the other night against a team like the Bobcats and the team loses, you are automatically removed from MVP talk. And when you talk about system, a lot of people say the system Phoenix runs is why Nash looks so good, well believe me the Phil jackson system is a big part of the Lakers success. Then Michael Redd as the East MVP? Hmm. I have to give it to one of the Pistons - Chauncey or Rip Hamilton[/B]. Orlando's lost too many important games for it to go to Dwight. And Washington is totally inconsistent to give it to Gilbert.</div> What are you talking about? The season depends upon the outcome of one game? That's a horrible way of observing things. It was 45 shots over the course of three overtimes. He played 54 Minutes, not 40. There are still 52 games left to play, why would what he does the rest of the year not count? K, then. As far as the Phil Jackson system is concerned, we do only run the Triangle about 30% of the game anyway; I wouldn't say a "system" so much as he's just a great coach.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What are you talking about? The season depends upon the outcome of one game? That's a horrible way of observing things. It was 45 shots over the course of three overtimes. He played 54 Minutes, not 40. There are still 52 games left to play, why would what he does the rest of the year not count? K, then. As far as the Phil Jackson system is concerned, we do only run the Triangle about 30% of the game anyway; I wouldn't say a "system" so much as he's just a great coach.</div> Kobe's done this before and it just doesn't look good. Real MVPs win as a team, with Kobe the ship sinks or swims with him and his shot. Nash, Duncan, Chauncey, Dirk,etc. do not shoot their teams out of games. I'm sorry. They've basically never done it. And don't say Kobe has no weapons he has MANY good perimeter shooters and Bynum and Kwame to feed on the block. Kobe took 11 3 pointers in that game; Brian Cook was 1 for 1 from downtown, Sasha took none and Parker took 2. These are not acceptable numbers. This is a legitimate knock on Kobe. Kobe is the best scorer in the league but not the MVP. recognize the difference.
How the hell did he shoot the team out of victory? He shot 48% while the rest shot 45%. I'm not claiming he should be MVP, but damn, your reasons are flawed. Again, you are basing his performance on one game. He's averaging 19 shots a game this season, where last season he averaged 27 per game. If we are basing the MVP on one game, he scored 81 last season so he should have won it last season. It's ridiculous to discredit someone because of one game. It's also stupid to talk about the MVP when we're only one third of the way through the regular season. I can't believe there's MVP talk before the All Star Break. Is it tat important of an award that there has to be constant discussion about it? The way this constant MVP talk is going, next season there will be threads about the MVP after week one.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe's done this before and it just doesn't look good. Real MVPs win as a team, with Kobe the ship sinks or swims with him and his shot. Nash, Duncan, Chauncey, Dirk,etc. do not shoot their teams out of games. I'm sorry. They've basically never done it. And don't say Kobe has no weapons he has MANY good perimeter shooters and Bynum and Kwame to feed on the block. Kobe took 11 3 pointers in that game; Brian Cook was 1 for 1 from downtown, Sasha took none and Parker took 2. These are not acceptable numbers. This is a legitimate knock on Kobe. Kobe is the best scorer in the league but not the MVP. recognize the difference.</div> Talk about being vague... He's averaging 20 shots a game, not 30. This was also one single game, not a string of 15 games, you seem to ignore this fact. So you're saying Kobe can't have an off game... Ridiculous. Nash/Dirk/Chauncey/Duncan also play different positions and are asked to do different things. Kobe took some bad shots in overtime, but 11 3 pointers isn't THAT uncommon. Relax, his TS% for the entire year is higher than Wade's. Can you even define what an MVP is? That's a worthless award.
<div class="quote_poster">Laker_fan Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's also stupid to talk about the MVP when we're only one third of the way through the regular season. </div> It's not stupid it's fun. do you love this game or what? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So you're saying Kobe can't have an off game...</div> No. And I'm not saying he's not VERY valuable to his team. Just not the MOST valuable when compared to a few other guys. And the MVP is arguably the only award that means anything outside of winning a championship. All Star and scoring titles - those are the ones that don't mean anything.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> No. And I'm not saying he's not VERY valuable to his team. Just not the MOST valuable when compared to a few other guys. And the MVP is arguably the only award that means anything outside of winning a championship. All Star and scoring titles - those are the ones that don't mean anything.</div> No you're wrong, the MVP is worthless. Why on earth does Shaq only have one? And why did Iverson win in 2001 (He did what Kobe does at a lower PER and rate, and then wins anyway)? It's a completely arbitrary process. You can't even reasonably define "valuable".
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No you're wrong, the MVP is worthless. Why on earth does Shaq only have one? </div>that's a good question, but that doesn't make the award "worthless".<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And why did Iverson win in 2001 (He did what Kobe does at a lower PER and rate, and then wins anyway)? </div>he took the Sixers to the Finals, not the first round. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You can't even reasonably define "valuable".</div>True, but how can you talk about what is reasonable when you equate Kobe to Jesus??
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">that's a good question, but that doesn't make the award "worthless".</div> Yes it does... If not, very inaccurate quite often. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> he took the Sixers to the Finals, not the first round.</div> Lmao, the MVP is a regular season award, the voters didn't know that. He also did it by going through the Eastern Conference; but either way, Shaq was more deserving that year, as well as other candidates. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">True, but how can you talk about what is reasonable when you equate Kobe to Jesus?? </div> Ah, well first, it's just a nickname. I call him that "for fun", the same reason why you post trimester MVP candidates (e.g. I know Michael Jordan is better).
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Lmao, the MVP is a regular season award, the voters didn't know that. </div>it wasn't that funny. But I forgot. The bottom line is it has become much trendier to appreciate the team-first guy rather than the high-scoring guy in the past few years when it comes to MVP voting. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I call him that "for fun", </div> okay well just don't get to the point where you're praying to the guy every night before bed.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">it wasn't that funny. But I forgot. The bottom line is it has become much trendier to appreciate the team-first guy rather than the high-scoring guy in the past few years when it comes to MVP voting.</div> Much "trendier" ? That's exactly my point, fellow. It's a popularity contest between people that win 50+ games. LeBron James didn't win last year, and he is a "team guy"/golden child according to the media. LeBron is better than Nash, but they chose Stevie anyway (hence, the arbitrary process). If the media mindlessly gives it to the trendiest "team guy" (on most occasions), then it is pretty much a cheap award... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> okay well just don't get to the point where you're praying to the guy every night before bed.</div> Well what part of nickname/"for fun" didn't you get? K then. I actually do like Jesus Christ (the prophet not Kobe) though, that's also part of the reason I put "Jesus" in my favorites/sig.
West MVP should go to Nash, Duncan, or Dirk in my opinion. I think Duncan has been the best of the three, but since he's barely playing 33 minutes a game I'd give it to Nowitzki right now. His choice for East MVP really boggles my mind. Clear favoritism right there. Redd is a very good player, don't get me wrong, but his team is doing no better than the Wizards and Arenas has clearly been better this year. The Wizards are +32.1 points per 100 possessions better with Arenas on the court versus when he's off the court. That's a ridiculous number, even this early in the season. The Wizards are just a terribel team without Arenas, and with him they're starting to look like one of the best teams in the East. I'd personally give East MVP to Arenas or Wade right now. Favoring Arenas.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phunDamentalz:</div><div class="quote_post">It's not stupid it's fun. do you love this game or what?</div> I don't see how me not discussing the MVP when only a third of the season has been played makes me not like the game. I guess I'll leave this thread and let you discuss the MVP of around 30 games.
<div class="quote_poster">Laker_fan Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't see how me not discussing the MVP when only a third of the season has been played makes me not like the game. I guess I'll leave this thread and let you discuss the MVP of around 30 games.</div> get a sense of humor man. damn too many people on this site are all serious.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">West MVP should go to Nash, Duncan, or Dirk in my opinion. I think Duncan has been the best of the three, but since he's barely playing 33 minutes a game I'd give it to Nowitzki right now. His choice for East MVP really boggles my mind. Clear favoritism right there. Redd is a very good player, don't get me wrong, but his team is doing no better than the Wizards and Arenas has clearly been better this year. The Wizards are +32.1 points per 100 possessions better with Arenas on the court versus when he's off the court. That's a ridiculous number, even this early in the season. The Wizards are just a terribel team without Arenas, and with him they're starting to look like one of the best teams in the East. I'd personally give East MVP to Arenas or Wade right now. Favoring Arenas.</div>Yea +32.1 points per 100 possesions with Arenas vs. without is pretty ridiculous. The Wizards average 112 points per 100 possesions.
I stopped reading after I read that he chose Michael Redd over Gilbert Arenas for the Eastern Conference MVP. There's no doubt Michael Redd is playing his best right now, but what Arenas has done so far this season goes way past what Redd has done. Gilbert is leading the Wizards to 3rd place so far in the Eastern conference winning the last 13 of 16 games, and only 1.5 games back from first place. Gilbert led his team to stop long winning streaks of the Mavs and the Suns, and what's he done during the month of December? No question, averaging more than 35 points a game and winning 2 Eastern conference player of the week. I'll tell you this too, if Arenas wasn't so caught up with how the refs were officiating early on the season, he would've been scoring 40+ consistently in November also. You can say that Arenas has a better supporting cast than Redd's, but Arenas has been able to set up his teammates and make them better as long as Arenas is leading this team. It hasn't happened lately, but when Arenas is off, he finds another way to contribute to his team from passing the ball and providing energy on the defensive end.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">get a sense of humor man. damn too many people on this site are all serious.</div> I really don't want to reply in this thread but I don't understand what discussing the MVP after 30 games has to do with having a sense of humour.
i skimed through this thread, and i can tell u iverson won mvp in2001 is because he led his team to the number oneseed in east .....kobe didn't
<div class="quote_poster">McGrady^1 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">i skimed through this thread, and i can tell u iverson won mvp in2001 is because he led his team to the number oneseed in east .....kobe didn't</div> Uh so? He played in the east and his offensive production was of a weak MVP candidate. He wasn't better than Shaq/Duncan/etc. no matter how you want to look at it.
<div class="quote_poster">phunDamentalz Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> No. And I'm not saying he's not VERY valuable to his team. Just not the MOST valuable when compared to a few other guys. And the MVP is arguably the only award that means anything outside of winning a championship. All Star and scoring titles - those are the ones that don't mean anything.</div> Oh puzleeee, think before you say something. If you took Nash, Duncan, Dirk, and Kobe off of their respective teams, I wouldn't guarantee the lakers would beat any one of them, and I would bet my money $1 on the Suns as victory. oh btw, if you are going to define 'valuelable', I suggest you go by that method. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">he took the Sixers to the Finals, not the first round. </div> AI recieved the MVP before he reached the Final buddy. Again, think, think, think!! That's all I'm asking. Anyway, forget about the crap about giving the MVP to a superstar or allstar player. Please give it to someone who actually deserve it, and right now, I gotta put my money on Carlos Boozer if he can continues pushing the Jazz to a top 4 seed while supplying big number on the stat sheet. It clearly Nash has too many stars or potential star players on his team, Duncan plays too little minutes, and that left with only 2 candidates for MVP thus far as of right now, Dirk and Boozer. But since the Jazz coming out of nowhere, Boozer gets the knock now. As for the East, nobody deserve it? Can I say that, otherwise I say Dwight Howard.
