<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Tracy McGrady is proving again that he can carry the Houston Rockets, but this time it's without the help of star center Yao Ming. The All-Star guard looks to help the Rockets (19-12) match their season-high four-game winning streak as they host the Seattle SuperSonics on Wednesday. The Rockets have relied heavily on McGrady after Yao, the team's leading scorer and rebounder at 25.9 and 9.4, respectively, suffered a broken bone under his right knee in a loss to the Los Angeles Clippers on Dec. 23. McGrady has averaged 26.3 points his last four games after missing the previous seven -- during which the Rockets went 2-5 -- due to back spasms. "I'm playing with a great deal of confidence now," said McGrady, who has 69 points in his last two games. "Not having the big fellow out there, a lot rides on my shoulders to carry this team. I'm just accepting the challenge." </div> Yahoo! Previews Sorry again guys, I've got my own basketball game tonight.
<font size=""4""><u>Seattle Supersonics (13-20) at Houston Rockets (19-12)</u></font> <font size=""4"">Starting Lineups:</font> Seattle PF - Chris Wilcox SF - Damien Wilkins C - Danny Fortson SG - Ray Allen PG - Luke Ridnour 6th Man - Earl Watson Houston PF - Juwan Howard SF - Shane Battier C - Dikembe Mutombo SG - Tracy McGrady PG - Rafer Alston 6th Man - Luther Head <font size=""4"">Keys to the Game:</font> Houston #1 - Contain Sonics backcourt, good perimeter defense. In particular, Ray Allen who will probably be shadowed by Shane Battier. #2 - Keep Fortson and Wilcox off the glass. These are 2 great rebounders who the Rockets especially need to keep off the offensive glass. Seattle #1 - Keep the ball out of McGrady's hands. He is the initiator of Houston's offense and has been on a tear lately. #2 - Get Mutombo in foul trouble early. The Rockets are very thin in the middle. If Deke gets a few early fouls, the Rockets have no other shotblockers in their lineup and have to go small with Hayes at the 5. Prediction: Rockets 92 Sonics 85
Thanks a lot johnny. Rockets will need to cover the perimeter. Ray Allen is really lethal this season, what a shooter. Wilcox will be a hard cover for Howard. Hopefully Juwan can pull through again.
It might be time to sticky a trade thread Rockets are in need of a Big, and insurance at wing and pg. TMac and Bonzi both have back trouble that could pop up at anytime. Yao still has a month to even begin to comeback. TMac Yao L.Head Shane only untouchables. J.Howard nobody wants I'd prefer to keep C.Hayes and K.Snyder for their D. I really think JLIII needs more min. Skip's shooting is killing me and when TMac is running the O L.Head or JLIII needs to be on the court getting the shots Allen and TMac have to have the best in your face shooting strokes in the NBA
Give the ball to Tmac and let him attack the rim, when he attacks the rim it draws defenders in leaving our other players open for the three and if we can knock them down we get a W.
<div class="quote_poster">moeinhouston Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It might be time to sticky a trade thread Rockets are in need of a Big, and insurance at wing and pg. TMac and Bonzi both have back trouble that could pop up at anytime. Yao still has a month to even begin to comeback. TMac Yao L.Head Shane only untouchables. J.Howard nobody wants I'd prefer to keep C.Hayes and K.Snyder for their D.</div> That's an interesting statement, being that Howard's averaging 17pts and 10rebs in the last 2 games. Ur willin to give up one of our best 3rd scoring options, for more defense? Howard still has pretty decent value, especially to the New Jersey Nets. Who is Chuck Hayes valuable too?
The return is the important thing. I wouldn't just give up any player I can tell you nobody wants J.Howard's contract and be willing to give up anything worth it. What would NJ offer, scrubs that might not break the 2nd string. Chuck Hayes: Only a team with a couple of superstars who need role players to do the dirty work need more defense in the playoffs. I'm not gonna get into the whole C.Hayes J.Howard thing, I've stayed out of that ever engaging coversation. A defensive big with scoring ability beats out both of the current PF if there is one out there.
Deke has been valuable to the Rockets as of late filling in Yao's shoes very well, of course with the exception of his limited scoring ability. Looks like TMac is back track to dominance. Nice win by the Rockets.
I saw the old T-mac come out yesterday, palming the ball with the left hand... doing moves to the AND1 3-point shot.
<div class="quote_poster">moeinhouston Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The return is the important thing. I wouldn't just give up any player I can tell you nobody wants J.Howard's contract and be willing to give up anything worth it. What would NJ offer, scrubs that might not break the 2nd string. Chuck Hayes: Only a team with a couple of superstars who need role players to do the dirty work need more defense in the playoffs. I'm not gonna get into the whole C.Hayes J.Howard thing, I've stayed out of that ever engaging coversation. A defensive big with scoring ability beats out both of the current PF if there is one out there.</div> I'm sorry, but you guys have badly underestimated Juwan Howard's importance to this team goin back to last year. It truly baffles me how you can downplay his significance, then turn around and praise a "garbage time" player who can't score, hit free throws, or play without foul trouble. Howard's value to this team FAR exceeds anything Hayes brings to the table. When ur puttin up numbers like Howard night in & night out, who's gonna replace that? I can't quite understand ur over emphasis on defense either. Without Chuck Hayes, we're still a good defensive team. So the notion that we need MORE defense baffles me. We actually need more firepower on offense, but you guys would rather see a whole team of "Dennis Rodman's" rather than a team that will give you 100+ points a night. Um, ok
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Howard's value to this team FAR exceeds anything Hayes brings to the table. When ur puttin up numbers like Howard night in & night out, who's gonna replace that? </div> How do you quantify value? If you can be so certain that Juwan's value exceeds Chuck's by a wide margin, I'd like you to explain how exactly you determine value to a team. Let's forget about Chuck for a second and take an extreme example. Do you think Juwan would be more "valuable" to this team than Dennis Rodman (post-Pistons)? Also, if you will agree that scarcity determines value (and I assume you do, given your arguments about a defensive team not needing more defensive players), would you think that when Yao returns to the lineup Juwan's value to the team would significantly lessen? Afterall, our need for a PF capable of scoring 15+ ppg would reduce significantly with Yao and McGrady on the court.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How do you quantify value? If you can be so certain that Juwan's value exceeds Chuck's by a wide margin, I'd like you to explain how exactly you determine value to a team.</div> U want me to elaborate, sure. Hayes's qualities are more of personality traits. His hustle, drive, & determination to get loose balls. There are plenty of Chuck Hayes's on every team, from Bo Outlaw, Mark Madsen etc....The things he brings to the table can be replaced if the Rockets went in a different direction. For example, if Scott Padgett applied himself mentally he can do everything Hayes is doing. Chuck Hayes's "never say die" mentality is good enuff to get him a spot on a JVG team, but unfortunatley not enuff to garner any real value around the NBA. Setting a hard screen and gettin a few rebounds isn't enuff to make teams want you. Howard on the other hand, does have a little value. A veteran player who can score, rebound, pass, and defend can help any team. Not only that, he's the ultimate team player and professional. He's been doin the same thing for over 10yrs, so you know exactly what ur gettin with Juwan Howard. Though his work is GREATLY unappreciated by a few silly Rocket fans, he's a big reason why we've been winning lately. <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Let's forget about Chuck for a second and take an extreme example. Do you think Juwan would be more "valuable" to this team than Dennis Rodman (post-Pistons)?</div> I don't know, because Rodman's a hall of famer. Hayes isn't 1/25th the player Rodman was. That's a odd question.......... <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Also, if you will agree that scarcity determines value (and I assume you do, given your arguments about a defensive team not needing more defensive players), would you think that when Yao returns to the lineup Juwan's value to the team would significantly lessen? Afterall, our need for a PF capable of scoring 15+ ppg would reduce significantly with Yao and McGrady on the court.</div> Absolutley NOT. His value will increase. If you haven't noticed, the Western Conference is stacked with firepower. From San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix, New Orleans, Lakers, and even lesser teams like Golden State. Our offense should be as potent as any of those teams. I just don't understand the need for MORE defense over offense. It's only logical, the more points we score the better will be. If we score over 100pts a game, our record DRASTICALLY gets better. You guys exaggerate the need for defense like offense doesn't exist
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">For example, if Scott Padgett applied himself mentally he can do everything Hayes is doing. Chuck Hayes's "never say die" mentality is good enuff to get him a spot on a JVG team, but unfortunatley not enuff to garner any real value around the NBA. Setting a hard screen and gettin a few rebounds isn't enuff to make teams want you. </div> I doubt Padgett can get the amount of rebounds Hayes does in the same amount of minutes. Take for an example, last night. He had eight rebounds in just under twenty minutes. That would not be considered just a few bounds. I'm sure many contending teams would love to have a Chuck Hayes on the team to bolster their defense and rebounding. You don't see Mark Madsen getting the number and rate of rebounds Hayes gets. If you're referring to Howard getting attention from the Nets, thats probably because he fits the Nets' needs, not because Hayes isn't a good enough player. I'm almost positive teams like the Spurs, Lakers, Mavericks, or Jazz would want a player like Hayes. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Absolutley NOT. His value will increase. If you haven't noticed, the Western Conference is stacked with firepower. From San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix, New Orleans, Lakers, and even lesser teams like Golden State. Our offense should be as potent as any of those teams. I just don't understand the need for MORE defense over offense. It's only logical, the more points we score the better will be. If we score over 100pts a game, our record DRASTICALLY gets better. You guys exaggerate the need for defense like offense doesn't exist</div> You know, you can certainly make the case for defense as well. Its only logical, the less points the other team gets, the better we should be. If we keep the other team under eighty points a game, our record DRASTICALLY gets better.
Thanks to Roddick's back specialist. Looks like Tmac's back is fine now. Tmac last 3 games has been playing marvelous. I like the way he is scoring, attacking the rim, shooting and hitting mid range and threes. I see the old Tmac back. I thought we were going to suck without Yao but Tmac and J-Ho have stepped up. Man we gotta give a lot of credit to Juwan howard. He has been playing great! Good win by us! Go Rockets!
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">U want me to elaborate, sure. Hayes's qualities are more of personality traits. His hustle, drive, & determination to get loose balls. There are plenty of Chuck Hayes's on every team, from Bo Outlaw, Mark Madsen etc....The things he brings to the table can be replaced if the Rockets went in a different direction. For example, if Scott Padgett applied himself mentally he can do everything Hayes is doing. Chuck Hayes's "never say die" mentality is good enuff to get him a spot on a JVG team, but unfortunatley not enuff to garner any real value around the NBA. Setting a hard screen and gettin a few rebounds isn't enuff to make teams want you. Howard on the other hand, does have a little value. A veteran player who can score, rebound, pass, and defend can help any team. Not only that, he's the ultimate team player and professional. He's been doin the same thing for over 10yrs, so you know exactly what ur gettin with Juwan Howard. Though his work is GREATLY unappreciated by a few silly Rocket fans, he's a big reason why we've been winning lately. </div> I disagree with a lot of what you say here, but in the interest of not turning yet ANOTHER thread into the same old Juwan vs. Chuck debate, I'll it ago. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know, because Rodman's a hall of famer. Hayes isn't 1/25th the player Rodman was. That's a odd question..........</div> But I'm not talking about Hayes. I'm talking about Juwan vs. Rodman (I'm just trying to understand how you assign value to what a player brings). Even though you consider Rodman a Hall of Famer, you still don't know if he'd be a better player for us than Juwan? For you to even have uncertainty on this to me that suggests you're really overvaluing what Juwan brings the team. I think it's a no brainer that Rodman would be more valuable. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Absolutley NOT. His value will increase. If you haven't noticed, the Western Conference is stacked with firepower. From San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix, New Orleans, Lakers, and even lesser teams like Golden State. Our offense should be as potent as any of those teams. I just don't understand the need for MORE defense over offense. It's only logical, the more points we score the better will be. If we score over 100pts a game, our record DRASTICALLY gets better. You guys exaggerate the need for defense like offense doesn't exist</div> What you're neglecting is points scored depends on possessions available. You can't just add the difference between Juwan's and Chuck's scoring the last month to our total and assume that's what will happen. Juwan is going to get far less touches in our offense with Yao and McGrady on the court, obviously. Since the area in which Juwan exceeds Chuck is what he can do on the offensive end with the ball, it's only natural to expect his value to the team to decline when his role offensively is significantly reduced. What Juwan does well is he uses existing possessions and helps convert them into points. But when we add Yao to the team, they'll be far less possessions for him to use up. Chuck, on the other hand, plays a different role. He essentially adds (or extends) possessions by going after offensive rebounds and loose balls and forcing more turnovers/misses on defense. His role won't in any way be diminished by adding another scorer. In fact, his role will likely increase because he'll receive less attention from the other team with Yao back on the floor. The numbers this season bare this out (I know you're not big on "evidence", but I'll use some anyways). When Juwan, Yao, and McGrady have on the court this year (total of 127 minutes) we've scored 260 points. That amounts to 98 points per 48 minutes. Not bad. But when Chuck, Yao, and McGrady have been on the court, we've scored 447 points in 215 minutes. That's 99.8 points per 48 minutes. And for completion, when Yao and McGrady have been on the court without either Chuck or Juwan, we've scored 99.1 points per 48 minutes (335 points in 162 minutes). So this theory that we've all of a sudden turn into an offensive juggernaut with Juwan, Tracy, and Yao together is not based on reality. Unfortunately, there's only one ball and there's only one basket. Even if Juwan retains his offensive flow with the reduced touches, realistically it will have only a marginal impact on offense. It's preposterous to think that Juwan could add 5 points to our per-game total all by himself, simply by changing his position in the rotation. We aren't talking about Karl Malone here. In fact, I'd argue that he would benefit the team much more if he got the majority of his minutes without Yao or McGrady on the court -- that is coming in off the bench when they're resting. He'd have more opportunities to score in that role and he'd allow us to rest Yao/McGrady longer.
<div class="quote_poster">AznxBaller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I doubt Padgett can get the amount of rebounds Hayes does in the same amount of minutes. Take for an example, last night. He had eight rebounds in just under twenty minutes. That would not be considered just a few bounds. I'm sure many contending teams would love to have a Chuck Hayes on the team to bolster their defense and rebounding. You don't see Mark Madsen getting the number and rate of rebounds Hayes gets. If you're referring to Howard getting attention from the Nets, thats probably because he fits the Nets' needs, not because Hayes isn't a good enough player. I'm almost positive teams like the Spurs, Lakers, Mavericks, or Jazz would want a player like Hayes.</div> Well, I think that's one of the most inaccurate statements I've heard. The closest thing San Antonio had to Hayes was Malik Rose, and Rose is a better player with a solid mid-range game. The Mavericks had Najera, and he's still overrall better than Hayes with better size. So basically, NOT THEY WOULDN'T want a player like Hayes. He's undersized, zero offense, foul prone (defensive specialist?) and can't finish unless he's wide open. <div class="quote_poster">AznxBaller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You know, you can certainly make the case for defense as well. Its only logical, the less points the other team gets, the better we should be. If we keep the other team under eighty points a game, our record DRASTICALLY gets better. </div> His defense isn't that good. If anything, his man is guranteed free throws with Hayes guarding him. So considering that, i'd prolly re-evaluate this statement
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, I think that's one of the most inaccurate statements I've heard. The closest thing San Antonio had to Hayes was Malik Rose, and Rose is a better player with a solid mid-range game. The Mavericks had Najera, and he's still overrall better than Hayes with better size. So basically, NOT THEY WOULDN'T want a player like Hayes. He's undersized, zero offense, foul prone (defensive specialist?) and can't finish unless he's wide open. </div> Nuh uh... I was referring to the current teams first of all. With Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili, even without his apparent offensive game that you keep mentioning, Hayes would be getting a ridiculous amount of open looks. When Duncan shifts over to center, Hayes would be in position to play a fantastic role by cleaning up the misses and getting offensive rebounds for the team. Basically, Duncan and Hayes would make a very effective rebounding unit for the Spurs. Najera played for the Mavericks what, like in the 2004 season? Stick with the times, thats some pretty irrelevant information considering they have almost a completely different team from then. Again, if Nowitzki shifts over to center and Hayes plays powerforward, it allows Nowitzki to stay out in the mid range and arc more. In case he misses, Hayes has a good chance of getting that miss. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> His defense isn't that good. If anything, his man is guranteed free throws with Hayes guarding him. So considering that, i'd prolly re-evaluate this statement</div> Okay. But you're also misinterpreting it. I was referring to the team in general, a counterpoint I made to your addiction to offense.
