<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">don't get me wrong he's a great player, but I've always felt like he's somewhat overrated....he can't shoot to save his life, and in a half court offense he's not all that "great" anymore.</div> Even if you don't think that he's not all that "great" in a half-court offense anymore (which I completely disagree with but don't want to get into a separate argument about), what about the fact that he's the fifth all-time APG leader, multiple-time NBA steals leader, a five time NBA APG leader, a five time all-NBA first teamer, an eight-time All-Star, a former Rookie-of-the Year, is 3rd on the all-time triple doubles list (and could be #1 by the time he retires), perennially leads his team in rebounding as a point guard, averages seven boards per game on his career, and is an eight-time All-NBA defensive teamer? Sounds underrated to me, especially considering all of the times he's been jipped out of the respect he deserves (ie: NBA's 50 greatest player list, 2002 MVP, etc.). Haven't you been watching the guy lately? He's 33-years old, yet he still went on nationally tv the other day and put up 23 points, 14 rebounds, and 11 assists on the Bulls in a win. He's the NBA's consummate player. He's a team leader and catalyst, the best rebounding point guard in the league, one of the league's top defenders, a reliable scoring threat, and arguably the greatest distributer in the game today. Every night he either racks up a triple-double or falls one or two rebounds, assists, or points short of it. It's nothing short of amazing.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post"> Sounds underrated to me, especially considering all of the times he's been jipped out of the respect he deserves (ie: NBA's 50 greatest player list, 2002 MVP, etc.)</div> I'm not looking to get into a debate on this, but do you really think he deserved the 2002 MVP over Tim Duncan?
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not looking to get into a debate on this, but do you really think he deserved the 2002 MVP over Tim Duncan?</div> Without question. I'll debate that... if you want.
I understand he's great, but I just don't think he's that "guy" especially when the game is slowed down.
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Without question. I'll debate that... if you want.</div> They both played all 82 games that year. Duncan played 40.6 MPG and had a 27.0 PER. Plus, the Spurs had the top ranked defense in the league and Duncan was a big reason for that. So, Duncan was dominant on both ends of the court. And the Spurs were tied with the Lakers for second best record in the league, and they were in the much tougher Western Conference. Kidd also played a ton of minutes, 37.3 MPG. He had a 19.1 PER and like Duncan was first team All-Defense (Nets were the 2nd ranked team in defense that year). But the big argument in his favor is the Nets went from 26 wins the previous year to 52 wins in his first year. Those 52 wins were best in the Eastern conference, 5th in the league overall. But I'm hesitant to attribute that turnaround solely to Kidd. In 2001, the Nets primary starting lineup was Marbury, Harris, Van Horn, K-Mart (a rookie), and Eschemeyer. But their regulars missed a bunch of games -- Marbury missed 15 games, Van Horn missed 33 games, Kerry Kittles missed the entire season, and Kendall Gill missed 51 games. In 2002, they got Kidd. Van Horn only missed one game, Kenyon Martin was entering his second year (where you'd expect him to improve the most regardless of the PG), they drafted Jefferson who played pretty well as a rookie, and they had Kittles for the entire 82 game season. They got Tod MacCulloch that year as their starting center, as he was actually pretty good (he had an 18.4 PER the previous season, so it wasn't a fluke or simply because of Kidd). Further, they had a solid backup center situation with Aaron Williams and Jason Collins. Basically, even excluding the exchange of Marbury and Kidd, New Jersey was a vastly improved and much healthier team. I think they should have won at least around 45 wins if they kept Marbury and he played the entire season.
Chi Town Rep Team PG:Michael Finley (cant think of other pgs) SGwayne Wade SF:Kendal Gill PF:Antoine Walker (What a disgrace) C:Kevin Garnett
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">All "Ugly" Team pg: Sam Cassell sg: Antoine Walker (put him at guard so he can shoot the ball a lot) sf: Vladamir Radmanovic pf: Popyes Jones c: Chris Kaman Sixth man: Tyrone Hill</div> Ben Handlogten
nice argument durvasa The All-Clutch team...wow there hasn't been one yet? Did I miss it? PG - Steve Nash (sorry Billups) SG - Dwayne Wade SF - Tracy McGrady PF - Carmelo Anthony C - Garnett (O'Neal would be here if he could knock down a FT) Bench: Andre Miller, E. Jones, Radmanovic, Robert Horry and Eddie Griffin. Old school All-Clutch PG - John Stockton SG - Michael Jordan SF - Reggie Miller PF - Kevin McHale C Hakeem Olajuwan
<div class="quote_poster">igotask8board Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">nice argument durvasa The All-Clutch team...wow there hasn't been one yet? Did I miss it? PG - Steve Nash (sorry Billups) SG - Dwayne Wade SF - Tracy McGrady PF - Carmelo Anthony C - Garnett (O'Neal would be here if he could knock down a FT) Bench: Andre Miller, E. Jones, Radmanovic, Robert Horry and Eddie Griffin. </div> Eddie Jones and Eddie Griffin are clutch?
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Eddie Jones and Eddie Griffin are clutch?</div> http://www.82games.com/clutchplay2.htm Umm, Eddie Jones is #3 on that list for "Top Plus/Minus in Clutch Situations."
<div class="quote_poster">igotask8board Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">http://www.82games.com/clutchplay2.htm Umm, Eddie Jones is #3 on that list for "Top Plus/Minus in Clutch Situations."</div> That's because in clutch situations he was mostly on the floor with Shaq and D-Wade. Just looking at his stats in those situations that season, it doesn't jump out to me. He shot 58% from the free throw line and just 41% from the floor. Last season, in about 162 "clutch minutes", he shot 33% from the field (he did go 26 for 28 from the line, however).
It's the bench man, I could put you on the bench and still have the most clutch/best line up in history....and ever. PG - John Stockton SG - Michael Jordan SF - Larry Bird PF - Kevin McHale C Hakeem Olajuwan I want to stick Bird at the 4 and insert Reggie...meh
Unstoppable: PG- "Magic" SG- Jordan SF- Pippen PF- Karl Malone C- Hakeem I dont know a team who would match up well with these FIVE NBA legends. Active Roster? PG-Steve Nash SG-Dwayne Wade SF-Kobe Bryant PF-Kevin Garnett C-Dwight "THE BEAST" Howard
<div class="quote_poster">Trench Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Active Roster? PG - Jason Kidd SG - Kobe Bryant SF - Kevin Darnett PF - Tim Duncan C - Yao Ming</div> There we go. BTW - Just noticed your reply, durvasa. I'll reply later when I've got the energy (got a pretty ugly fever now, but I'm getting over it).
Jason Kidd the best PG in the league right now?? Well, i dont know Dont think so because Nash is having another great year and Iverson has put up some nice numbers. But okay, this is your opinion. Active roster would be: PG: Steve Nash(Raining MVP) SG:Kobe Bryant(Best player in the league) SF:LeBron James (You need a King in your game, has some nice numbers) PFirk Nowitzki(Maybe the best season of his life) C:Yao Ming(Excellent season but the injury..) This would be the roster with no injuries.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">PG: Steve Nash(Raining MVP)</div> It's raining MVPs!!! Ahh! Active roster would be: Nash Kobe/Wade Lebron Duncan/Dirk Yao
<div class="quote_poster">SpeeJ Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Jason Kidd the best PG in the league right now?? Well, i dont know Dont think so because Nash is having another great year and Iverson has put up some nice numbers. But okay, this is your opinion. Active roster would be: PG: Steve Nash(Raining MVP) SG:Kobe Bryant(Best player in the league) SF:LeBron James (You need a King in your game, has some nice numbers) PFirk Nowitzki(Maybe the best season of his life) C:Yao Ming(Excellent season but the injury..) This would be the roster with no injuries.</div> Hehe, why? Because he makes it rain on them hoes?
