Is Homosexuality inherited? Horton reviews LeVay, Hamer, and Katz.

I am posting this article, because in the other (antique) thread about Homosexuality, I mentioned that I would like to review the objective, scientific facts on this issue. My goal was to try to determine whether there is actually evidence of a "gay gene", seeing as I kept hearing people tell me about its existence all the time.

Richard Horton is the editor for "The Lancet" a British medical journal. Now, in this critique (of sorts) he lays into LeVay and Hamer (two men who asserted that there indeed was a "gay gene") for being reckless. However, he doesn't speak fondly of "Katz" either, one who took a completely antithetical position.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Indeed, cats, rabbits, and rats all show some elements of "gay" behavior when their brain serotonin concentrations fall. Intriguing and, you might think, convincing evidence.

Yet, although w is found in modified form in human beings, it is a huge (and, it seems to me, a dangerous) leap to extrapolate observations from fruit flies to humans. In truth, when the recent data are interpreted literally we find that (a) the w gene induces male group sex behavior in highly ritualized linear or circular configurations, and ( while these tend more toward homosexual than straight preferences, they are truly bisexual (as pointed out by Larry Thompson in Time). Zhang and Odenwald force their experimental results with fruit flies to fit their preconceived notions of homosexuality. How simplistic it seems to equate genital licking in Drosophila with complex individual and social homosexual behavior patterns in humans. Can notions of homosexuality apply uniformly across the biological gulf that divides human beings and insects? Such arguments by analogy seem hopelessly inadequate.
...

Seven pairs of brothers did not have the Xq28 genetic marker, yet these brothers were all gay. Xq28 is clearly not a sine qua non for homosexuality; it is neither a necessary nor a sufficient cause by itself.

And what about women? Although the genitalia of women as well as men are clearly biologically determined, no data exist to prove a genetic link, or a link based on brain structure, with female sexual preferences, whether heterosexual or homosexual. Finally, neither study has been replicated by other researchers, the necessary standard of scientific proof. Indeed, there is every reason to suppose that the INAH 3 data will be extremely difficult to confirm. Only a few years ago INAH 1 (located close to INAH 3) was also thought to be larger in men than in women. Two groups, including LeVay's, have failed to reproduce this result.

...

LeVay and Hamer on the one hand, and Katz, on the other, evidently have taken completely antithetical positions. But Katz's extreme intellectual reductionism makes him as guilty as the more simplistic biologists and journalists who inflate claims about every new genetic discovery. </div>

Source

My goal was not to tell all of you that Homosexuality is wrong, but to shed light on the issue of a "gay gene".


Edit- I corrected which website was in the "Source" hyperlink.

 

If there was a gay gene within the dna, identical twins would either both be gay or not gay? Would there be a bisexual gene too?

 

I think it's Nurture over Nature. I actually have very minimal doubt in my mind.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Omarion Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If there was a gay gene within the dna, identical twins would either both be gay or not gay? Would there be a bisexual gene too?</div>

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
1) NOT BORN THAT WAY

A number of researchers have sought to find a biological cause for same-sexual attraction. The media have promoted the idea that a "gay gene" has already been discovered (Burr 1996[3]), but in spite of several attempts, none of the much publicized studies (Hamer 1993[4]; LeVay 1991[5]) has been scientifically replicated. (Gadd 1998) A number of authors have carefully reviewed these studies and found that not only do the studies not prove a genetic basis for same-sex attraction; the reports do not even contain such claims. (Byne 1963[6]; Crewdson 1995[7]; Goldberg1992; Horgan 1995[8]; McGuire 1995[9]; Porter 1996; Rice 1999[10])

If same-sex attraction were genetically determined, then one would expect identical twins to be identical in their sexual attractions. There are, however, numerous reports of identical twins who are not identical in their sexual attractions. (Bailey 1991[11]; Eckert 1986; Friedman 1976; Green 1974; Heston 1968; McConaghy 1980; Rainer 1960; Zuger 1976) Case histories frequently reveal environmental factors which account for the development of different sexual attraction patterns in genetically identical children, supporting the theory that same-sex attraction is a product of the interplay of a variety of environmental factors. (Parker 1964[12])

There are, however, ongoing attempts to convince the public that same-sex attraction is genetically based. (Marmor 1975[13]) Such attempts may be politically motivated because people are more likely to respond positively to demands for changes in laws and religious teaching when they believe sexual attraction to be genetically determined and unchangeable. (Ernulf 1989[14]; Piskur 1992[15]) Others have sought to prove a genetic basis for same-sex attraction so that they could appeal to the courts for rights based on the "immutability". (Green 1988[16]) </div>

Source

The comments in bold should answer your question.

 

It's not a black and white, cut and dry answer. I know lots of gay people, and this is what I have concluded:

Homosexuality is not genetic, but it is inherent and unchangeable. It's not something someone "decides." The only thing they decide is when to come out of the closet.

You can't force yourself to be sexually aroused by a particular group of people; you just are.

Saying it arises from a gene (as if it's a mutation) is insulting, and saying it results from trauma is also insulting.

It's not exactly nature or nurture. There's a middle ground here that we have not yet found.

 

I know a couple of lesbian girls who had some bad relationships with dudes. You know the usually... men are dogs, the sex was wack, etc. So, they decided to become lesbian. Experiences like those definitely contribute to someone's decision on whether to change their sexual orientation.

It's interesting, I was always under the belief gay isn't instinctive. My science teacher, who happens to be gay, also told me some animals are gay too. Anyway, I usually stay out of these types of discussions because they usually don't end up progressing. Whether or not you choose to live such a lifesetyle is a choice based on your beliefs and morals - something which don't change easily.

Personally, I feel homosexuality is nasty and I don't get down like that, but like the common expression says, to each his own.

 

I've took classes on this and what I got out of it is that while there can be genetic connections between people who are gay, there is no gene that determines if you're gay or not.....I know PLENTY of gay people and I'm cool with them, but from talking to them you can tell that life experiences usually have something to do with their choice.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It's not a black and white, cut and dry answer. I know lots of gay people, and this is what I have concluded:

Homosexuality is not genetic, but it is inherent and unchangeable. It's not something someone "decides." The only thing they decide is when to come out of the closet.

You can't force yourself to be sexually aroused by a particular group of people; you just are.
Saying it arises from a gene (as if it's a mutation) is insulting, and saying it results from trauma is also insulting.

It's not exactly nature or nurture. There's a middle ground here that we have not yet found.</div>

I disagree, there are many people who experience trauma in their lives and THEN they become gay....some even seek counseling after making their decision and then decide to turn straight again.

 

Your ratio of copper to zinc you have in your body can also determine whether you like triangles or poles. Women have higher concentrations of copper; so do gay guys. Strange but true.

 

This isn't an issue that I can come out and form a definite opinion on, because frankly, I just don't know enough. In fact, I don't think we've aquired enough knowledge about our anatomy to make anything other than a hypothesis. I definitely agree with the author of the article, though: there was some pretty spotty logic employed by all three of those scientists.

 

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">From the gay people I know, I don't think a gay gene exists. Every gay person I know started out being straight and for one reason or another decided to become gay and adopt the gay lifestyle and culture. Most gay people I know tend to be bi-sexual.

I really think it's a choice resulting from a traumatic experience.</div>

I agree with what you're saying, I just see homosexuality as just a sexual preference, just how some people are into bondage fetishes or beastiality, its all choice on what they prefer.

My uncle is gay, and as you said, he "started out" straight, he even had a wife and kids, but his wife treated him like s*** so he left her and decided to go into bat for the other team.

 

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">From the gay people I know, I don't think a gay gene exists. Every gay person I know started out being straight and for one reason or another decided to become gay and adopt the gay lifestyle and culture. Most gay people I know tend to be bi-sexual.

I really think it's a choice resulting from a traumatic experience.</div>

Wow, I don't always agree with you shape, but I have always respected your posts, especailly in the off topic section. But this little replay was astonishingly terrible and dare i say, ignorant? People don't "decide" to become gay....PERIOD. Its not a choice, who would chose to be gay? There are very few perks for gay people, their life is inheriantly harder then straight people. There is a stigma about them, probably percipitated by comments such as the ones you made above. Traumatic experiences can lead to alcoholism, depression, anger, guilt and even self mutilation...the don't lead to HOMOSEXUALITY. And to imply that gay people are only "that way" because of a traumatic experience is borderline insulting. Maybe the gay people you know are bi-sexual, but i'm sure there is a much smaller percentage of the general population who is bi-sexual, rather then gay. You have got to be kidding me saying that. Its like saying you "chose" to be straight. And if tomorrow you happen to be sexually harrassed/assulted you may then "choose" to become gay. Thats ridiculous. Example, say your girlfriend is blonde...and you have a predisposition to being attracted to blonde women, that feeling/urge is inside you. You can't chose to like redheads or brunettes. Thats just the way it is. Just like fetishes, some people have a foot fetish. The get aroused by seeing feet. Its gross to some, but beauty to others. Thats in you. You can't tell yourself to become aroused at the sight of a womans foot. Gay men are gay, because they are attracted to men, plain and simple. They didn't chose that, thats just the way they are.

 

<div class="quote_poster">NTC187 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">

My uncle is gay, and as you said, he "started out" straight, he even had a wife and kids, but his wife treated him like s*** so he left her and decided to go into bat for the other team.</div>

I think those people are in denile or are just trying to conform for social reasons.

 

<div class="quote_poster">norespect Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think those people are in denile or are just trying to conform for social reasons.</div>

Yeah, I don't think anyone becomes gay because their wife treats them like S**T.

 

<div class="quote_poster">norespect Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, I don't always agree with you shape, but I have always respected your posts, especailly in the off topic section. But this little replay was astonishingly terrible and dare i say, ignorant? People don't "decide" to become gay....PERIOD. Its not a choice, who would chose to be gay? There are very few perks for gay people, their life is inheriantly harder then straight people. There is a stigma about them, probably percipitated by comments such as the ones you made above. Traumatic experiences can lead to alcoholism, depression, anger, guilt and even self mutilation...the don't lead to HOMOSEXUALITY. And to imply that gay people are only "that way" because of a traumatic experience is borderline insulting. Maybe the gay people you know are bi-sexual, but i'm sure there is a much smaller percentage of the general population who is bi-sexual, rather then gay. You have got to be kidding me saying that. Its like saying you "chose" to be straight. And if tomorrow you happen to be sexually harrassed/assulted you may then "choose" to become gay. Thats ridiculous. Example, say your girlfriend is blonde...and you have a predisposition to being attracted to blonde women, that feeling/urge is inside you. You can't chose to like redheads or brunettes. Thats just the way it is. Just like fetishes, some people have a foot fetish. The get aroused by seeing feet. Its gross to some, but beauty to others. Thats in you. You can't tell yourself to become aroused at the sight of a womans foot. Gay men are gay, because they are attracted to men, plain and simple. They didn't chose that, thats just the way they are.</div>
^ what he said.

 

<div class="quote_poster">norespect Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Its not a choice, who would chose to be gay?</div>

Who would choose to have sex with Animals? Who would choose to molest children? Who would choose to take a dump on someone? Alot of people out there do some sick s*** when it comes to having sex, some people need more 'extreme measures' or somthing 'against the norm' to get off than others.

 

In Psychology courses I took we learned that being gay or lesbian, etc can stem from several types of circumstances or issues. Most notably trauma as Shapecity has mentioned as well as Chuck's opinion. However, it is not a choice you just make. The entire thing is psychological more then physical. In a study over thousands of people there was a determined fact that many lesbians (roughly 45 percent) became as they are due to violence in their background. Whether that being abused themselves or knowing someone that is very close that is being or was abused. This isn't the same for men.