<div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I never brought up the series.</div> Yeah, riiiiiiight. Raja Bell's elbow wasn't a part of the series. Respond to my previous post.
<div class="quote_poster">sportsaholic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I know what Bahir thinks. I don't need you telling me what he thinks. Yes, I am taking it personal. I'm sick and tired of Laker fans judging him because of one play. How about all of the elbows Kobe threw? do they talk about that? NO! It's a complete double standard!</div> raja bell can get a break the next time he scores 81 points. you get respect as you become an all star. and i will continue telling you what others think when you make stupid comments gettin all offensive of your precious suns. im not even a big lakers fan and ur getin all emotional that ur teams getting ragged on.
No ragging on raja He and kobe are both great players, but kobe is better. And im sick and tired of hearing 'bout "the elbow", it gets old.
It's nice to have a 7'5 Yao Ming and 4 times defensive player of the year in the paint. Not to discredit Shane Battier defensive ability, but it is an advantage. Anyway Shane Battier is a great defender and he should get more recognition for defensive player of the year or 1st team defense. But if I have to pick, I'll go with Ron Artest. He has a quick hand and physically strong that he can guard 5 positions.
I agree 100% with the concept of this thread, but I think it's ironic how when I said this a year ago, or hell, even three or four years ago, the same people now praising Battier's defense were bashing me (sans durvasa). I also remember being very critical of the Grizzlies' end of the Battier-Gay trade. Houston fans were bitching that they got ripped off, whereas I kept saying that it was the Grizz who got the raw end. Now that we're in the thick of the season and the Grizz are one of the worst teams in the league with Gay struggling off the bench, and the Rockets are one of the best teams in the league with Battier playing his typical game, those same people seem to have forgotten what they were saying last June. It kind of reminds me about the Stromile Swift signing last year. They all said he'd be a major contributer for the Rockets and laughed at me when I said that he's was lazy, unmotivated, etc. We all know how that turned out. The Houston fans on this board are such Monday-morning quarterbacks. They'll tell you all about a player or game after-the-fact, but they can never accurately analyze talent until it bites them in the ass.
It's pretty hard to define one guy as the best right now, because there are a lot of great ones, but they all do different things. For instance, Ben Wallace has been voted Defensive POY a half dozen times, it seems, but is he the best defender at guarding an opponent's top scorer like Battier or Bowen are? No. I don't think you can label one guy the best right now, but if I had to give you my favorite defensive player, it'd be a close race between Bowen and Battier. It's funny; I pretty much find Duke revolting in every way, yet two of my favorite NBA players are Blue Devils; Elton Brand and Battier.
<div class="quote_poster">Schaddy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> It's funny; I pretty much find Duke revolting in every way, yet two of my favorite NBA players are Blue Devils; Elton Brand and Battier.</div> For what it's worth, Brand hates Duke too. I'm in the same boat as you though. I can't stand Duke, and I hated Battier at Duke just by association, but then I got to meet him and really get to know him, and he's actually one of the most outstanding personalities in the NBA. The league should really be promoting him more, because he embodies everything that the NBA needs more of: defense, fundamentals, unselfishness, hustle, sportsmanship, community service, and relationships with fans.
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">For what it's worth, Brand hates Duke too. I'm in the same boat as you though. I can't stand Duke, and I hated Battier at Duke just by association, but then I got to meet him and really get to know him, and he's actually one of the most outstanding personalities in the NBA. The league should really be promoting him more, because he embodies everything that the NBA needs more of: defense, fundamentals, unselfishness, hustle, sportsmanship, community service, and relationships with fans.</div> Couldn't have said that better myself.
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I also remember being very critical of the Grizzlies' end of the Battier-Gay trade. Houston fans were bitching that they got ripped off, whereas I kept saying that it was the Grizz who got the raw end. Now that we're in the thick of the season and the Grizz are one of the worst teams in the league with Gay struggling off the bench, and the Rockets are one of the best teams in the league with Battier playing his typical game, those same people seem to have forgotten what they were saying last June. It kind of reminds me about the Stromile Swift signing last year. They all said he'd be a major contributer for the Rockets and laughed at me when I said that he's was lazy, unmotivated, etc. We all know how that turned out. The Houston fans on this board are such Monday-morning quarterbacks. They'll tell you all about a player or game after-the-fact, but they can never accurately analyze talent until it bites them in the ass.</div> I think this is unfair. Battier is the kind of player you need watch regularly to really appreciate. A lot of Rockets fans saw the draft as an opportunity to finally get younger and more athletic. Perhaps get someone who could become a star. After the nightmare that was last season, we wanted to make the most of that draft. Don't blame them for feeling dissapointed that we got a solid NBA veteran instead of a potentially dynamic and athletic stud. I agree, people overreacted, but that's no reason to go off on them. As for Swift, again you have to look at it from our Rockets perspective. Our PF situation was totally lacking. Old, unathletic, and unproductive. Just like with Rudy Gay, a lot of us wanted to get younger and faster, instead of stockpiling slow but "dependable" veterans as we'd been doing seemingly ever since JVG got here. That's why there was excitement over Swift. The guy is an athlete, he showed that he could put up some nice numbers, and the hope was that in a new situation if he got a good opportunity to play a lot of minutes he might break through. Not an unreasonable expectation for Rockets fans. I don't know, I've noticed the last few years that you seem to have some strong animosity towards Houston fans. Not sure where that stems from.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think this is unfair. Battier is the kind of player you need watch regularly to really appreciate. A lot of Rockets fans saw the draft as an opportunity to finally get younger and more athletic. Perhaps get someone who could become a star. After the nightmare that was last season, we wanted to make the most of that draft. Don't blame them for feeling dissapointed that we got a solid NBA veteran instead of a potentially dynamic and athletic stud. I agree, people overreacted, but that's no reason to go off on them. As for Swift, again you have to look at it from our Rockets perspective. Our PF situation was totally lacking. Old, unathletic, and unproductive. Just like with Rudy Gay, a lot of us wanted to get younger and faster, instead of stockpiling slow but "dependable" veterans as we'd been doing seemingly ever since JVG got here. That's why there was excitement over Swift. The guy is an athlete, he showed that he could put up some nice numbers, and the hope was that in a new situation if he got a good opportunity to play a lot of minutes he might break through. Not an unreasonable expectation for Rockets fans. I don't know, I've noticed the last few years that you seem to have some strong animosity towards Houston fans. Not sure where that stems from.</div> If you don't know about a player, then you shouldn't comment on them. I got into several arguments in the Rockets forum, where I was more or less laughed at for saying that Rudy Gay lacked drive and that Shane Battier was a glue player, a great defender, etc. I'll excuse not knowing about his game, because like you said, he's definitely a player that you appreciate more when you watch him play, but it's hard to excuse starting an argument over a guy you know nothing about. The right thing for them to do would have been to take my insight, seeing how I've watched hundreds of his games, and accepted what I had to say about him. Instead, they had to challenge my point of view, without any basis. I disagree with your assesment of Swift too. Yes, the Rockets forum had a right to want a young, athletic player, but understand that when Swift was a free agent, he wasn't exactly young anymore. He had been around the block for several years, had been in a variety of situations, in different cities and different roles, and still, nothing had worked. From Sidney Lowe to Hubie Brown, nobody could coach the guy. The problem was never a change of scenery, and I explained that. The problem was the guy's attitude, and that's not something that you can teach. You see, it's one thing if someone just said, "I agree, but I'm still being hopeful because I'm a Rockets fan," or "Thanks for the insight." Instead, I was bashed by every poster in the forum and basically outnumbered for the five or so pages of that thread. Animosity towards Houston fans? No, not all Houston fans, just most of the ones on this site. I've never gone in that forum trying to cause problems. I've just offered my point of view on topics I'm knowledgable on, and everytime they've been flat-out rejected on no sound basis whatsoever. So yeah... they're Monday-morning quarterbacks. [/endrant]
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Animosity towards Houston fans? No, not all Houston fans, just most of the ones on this site. I've never gone in that forum trying to cause problems. I've just offered my point of view on topics I'm knowledgable on, and everytime they've been flat-out rejected on no sound basis whatsoever.</div> If you enter into a team's forum, they're excited about an acquisition, and you decide to rain on their parade, even if your assessment is correct (and it looks like it was) you should expect a backlash. I'm not justifying people disrespecting you, but please don't act like it's a particular problem with Houston fans. That will happen with any fans. It just so happens that we had dealings with Swift and Gay, so you're dumping on us. Edit: Alright, to be fair Gay is a different issue. I don't know what people were saying to you. But if they were distraught about not getting Gay and only getting Battier, you can't blame them. I never took that position (I was cautiously optimistic about the trade), but I understood it.
Bowen is the best, followed by Battier. ARtest is overrated and if you've seen him play lately, he's really gotten lazy
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If you enter into a team's forum, they're excited about an acquisition, and you decide to rain on their parade, even if your assessment is correct (and it looks like it was) you should expect a backlash. I'm not justifying people disrespecting you, but please don't act like it's a particular problem with Houston fans. That will happen with any fans. It just so happens that we had dealings with Swift and Gay, so you're dumping on us. Edit: Alright, to be fair Gay is a different issue. I don't know what people were saying to you. But if they were distraught about not getting Gay and only getting Battier, you can't blame them. I never took that position (I was cautiously optimistic about the trade), but I understood it.</div> Fair enough. We've got to stop this back-and-forth though, because I'm going on a tear about the rest of the Rockets forum, but not you, Locke, and one or two other posters, and the proceeding would only start a flame-war that I don't want to get into with those guys. I will say this though - I've had problems with just about every forum on JBB with issues like this. You're right, it's not a Houston problem but rather a league-wide problem. Fans are too loyal to their home team to the point where their bias blinds their judgement.
How do we know what Gay is going to become down the track though? I can't see the Grizz in playoff contention with or without Battier without a healthy Gasol anyway, and they were never going to get to contending status without stripping down and building up again. If Gay lives up to his potential (and we'll know that in 3-5 seasons, not after half a season) then the Grizz are laughing, for as nice a guy and great a defender Shane Battier is, he is still a roleplayer.
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If you don't know about a player, then you shouldn't comment on them. I got into several arguments in the Rockets forum, where I was more or less laughed at for saying that Rudy Gay lacked drive and that Shane Battier was a glue player, a great defender, etc.</div> Rudy Gay at the time was what we needed. That's before we got Snyder and Bonzi, and we needed a real 3rd scorer. I was skeptical because we needed scoring, but with Bonzi, Snyder & Padgett came and Battier has a more definded role. We don't need him to score, so it worked out perfectly in the end. <div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'll excuse not knowing about his game, because like you said, he's definitely a player that you appreciate more when you watch him play, but it's hard to excuse starting an argument over a guy you know nothing about. The right thing for them to do would have been to take my insight, seeing how I've watched hundreds of his games, and accepted what I had to say about him. Instead, they had to challenge my point of view, without any basis.</div> Who? I don't remember too many ppl doughting Battier's skillz. We just were concerned that we didn't have any athletes on the squad. At the point, Tmac was the only real athlete. It was more so what we had at the time that had us angry. <div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I disagree with your assesment of Swift too. Yes, the Rockets forum had a right to want a young, athletic player, but understand that when Swift was a free agent, he wasn't exactly young anymore. He had been around the block for several years, had been in a variety of situations, in different cities and different roles, and still, nothing had worked. From Sidney Lowe to Hubie Brown, nobody could coach the guy. The problem was never a change of scenery, and I explained that. The problem was the guy's attitude, and that's not something that you can teach.</div> I disagree with this assement. When we aquired Swift our understanding was that we were gonna switch our tempo to a more up & down game. However, JVG didn't switch anything. He ran no plays for Swift and didn't really give him a chance to learn without scolding him. I didn't invision us playin slow "pound it out" type game with Swift because that's not his advantage. Looking back, I'd still take Swift on the Rockets. <div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You see, it's one thing if someone just said, "I agree, but I'm still being hopeful because I'm a Rockets fan," or "Thanks for the insight." Instead, I was bashed by every poster in the forum and basically outnumbered for the five or so pages of that thread.</div> I was outnumbered in the Rockets thread too, and I'm a ROCKETS FAN! Must want a cookie for that incredible "insight" <div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Animosity towards Houston fans? No, not all Houston fans, just most of the ones on this site. I've never gone in that forum trying to cause problems. I've just offered my point of view on topics I'm knowledgable on, and everytime they've been flat-out rejected on no sound basis whatsoever.</div> The Rockets forum is not for the weak-minded
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I agree 100% with the concept of this thread, but I think it's ironic how when I said this a year ago, or hell, even three or four years ago, the same people now praising Battier's defense were bashing me (sans durvasa). I also remember being very critical of the Grizzlies' end of the Battier-Gay trade. Houston fans were bitching that they got ripped off, whereas I kept saying that it was the Grizz who got the raw end. Now that we're in the thick of the season and the Grizz are one of the worst teams in the league with Gay struggling off the bench, and the Rockets are one of the best teams in the league with Battier playing his typical game, those same people seem to have forgotten what they were saying last June. It kind of reminds me about the Stromile Swift signing last year. They all said he'd be a major contributer for the Rockets and laughed at me when I said that he's was lazy, unmotivated, etc. We all know how that turned out. The Houston fans on this board are such Monday-morning quarterbacks. They'll tell you all about a player or game after-the-fact, but they can never accurately analyze talent until it bites them in the ass.</div> I'll give you credit on the Battier-Gay trade, but it was a spur of the moment thing that upset fans in Houston. Rockets' fans were so happy Rudy Gay fell in their laps, so what'd you expect? Most fans that did get upset cheered up after realizing Battier, though not a star, is still a top notch role player every team should have (but can't). Gay could evolve into a super star, so we'll see how the trade turns out. It's not Gay's fault Gasol got injured. It's easy to analyze talent when it's in your face every other night. Hmm, I guess you have a reason to be bitter, so I watered down my post.
Trenton Hassell and Quinton Ross are two of the most underrated defenders. They should be mentioned with these guys.
imma stay with my boy Ben Wallace from the chi man and james posey is a great defender thats also under rated. he plays smart d.
<div class="quote_poster">asdf Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Trenton Hassell and Quinton Ross are two of the most underrated defenders. They should be mentioned with these guys.</div> Most definately, both are better defenders than Raja, Battiers played the best though. Hes on the best defensive team, and is the only member on the Rockets who can say the team plays the best defense when hes on the floor.
