I am starting to hate Bosh more and more. He causes piles of turnovers when he dosen't pass out of the double team. He also is about as useful as boobs on a nun down the stretch of tight games. If you are a "Franchise Player" or an allstar, the ball should be in your hands down the stretch. And if he isn't gettin the ball he should be demanding it. Throw his points and boards out the window for this game, cause down the strech he was a pylon.
^It doesn't help that the only play Mitchell can draw up to get him the ball is a high pick and roll. Just once I would love to see Bosh come off of an off ball screen instead of having try to set endless screens for Ford.
Another prime example of Mitchell's terrible coaching. This dude got to go. Dallas is a great team, but we had this game. 1.)Why would you keep your franchise player on the bench for over 6mins in the 4th quarter? Dirk played almost 46mins. 2.)Why bring in TJ ford in the final stretch when Jose was playing terrific? 3.)Why not run more plays for MoPete, dude was on fire the entire game. Didnt miss a shot. MoPete was perfect from the field. Why not get him more shots. Mitchell's gotta go, dude is really not utilizing the talents on this team to the fullest.
<div class="quote_poster">bryce40ww Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">^It doesn't help that the only play Mitchell can draw up to get him the ball is a high pick and roll. Just once I would love to see Bosh come off of an off ball screen instead of having try to set endless screens for Ford.</div> clearly your the most objective poster on the site, u know with all your bosh avatars, and sign. we need a coach or a veteran player that actually has some game to come in here and call bosh out!!! this guy is getting an undeserved reprieve from fans, journalists, coaches and his teammates. he consistently forces up bad shots, makes poor decisions on both ends and looks lost on defense. the only thing he does at an all star level is rebound. moreover, there is zero ball movement with bosh and ford on the court. i'm so longing for the days of vince- v.c showed up for the big games (except that first series with the knicks) and mailed it in for the meaningless games, bosh does the opposite, e.g. the game against the nets this past tuesday. remember bosh is the same dude who left georgia tech for the nba and the next season his college team made it to the national championship game. is it a coincidence that we haven't had a winning season in bosh's stint here? he is from texas, the home of the bumbling failures , e.g. george bush jr.
While I do agree that Bosh is getting too much praise and deserves criticism like everyone else I'd stop short of going completely nuts. Look we all know that Bosh needs to work on a few things: defense, shot selection (at times), passing out of the double team. His rebounding for us is key and he's a talented offensive player. We're a better team with CB4. Here's my problem however: <div class="quote_poster">deception Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> there is zero ball movement with bosh and ford on the court. </div> While Bosh does shoot a great percentage my concern is that while Bosh forces up more opportunities than he needs to his teammates aren't getting enough looks. I think you have to blame TJ Ford for this as well considering he doesn't distribute the ball as evenly. With the amount of doubles thrown at Bosh we should constantly be able to create good opportunities with ball movement, but we fail to do that. My problem is deciding how much of this is Chris Bosh and how much of it is Sam Mitchell.
<div class="quote_poster">a13x Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> While Bosh does shoot a great percentage my concern is that while Bosh forces up more opportunities than he needs to his teammates aren't getting enough looks. I think you have to blame TJ Ford for this as well considering he doesn't distribute the ball as evenly. With the amount of doubles thrown at Bosh we should constantly be able to create good opportunities with ball movement, but we fail to do that. My problem is deciding how much of this is Chris Bosh and how much of it is Sam Mitchell.</div> great post. sam mitchell i believe, actually i know allows his team to freelance and thats alright with a veteran or savvy team but not with bosh and ford. what we need is a micro manager in the mold of scott skiles, not iavorani and certainly not smitch. and as for blame- 25/25/25/25- for smitch's lack of oversight, bosh for being a dumbarse, ford for his poor decision making and colangelo for allowing the madness to persist. btw, whats with bosh saying that he looks for bargnani, i cant remember one pass he made to bargnani all season but bargnani has certainly hooked him up on multiple occasions. and can somebody please take down that dumbarse banner of bosh posing with that retarded expression.
<div class="quote_poster">deception Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">clearly your the most objective poster on the site, u know with all your bosh avatars, and sign. we need a coach or a veteran player that actually has some game to come in here and call bosh out!!! this guy is getting an undeserved reprieve from fans, journalists, coaches and his teammates. he consistently forces up bad shots, makes poor decisions on both ends and looks lost on defense. the only thing he does at an all star level is rebound. moreover, there is zero ball movement with bosh and ford on the court. i'm so longing for the days of vince- v.c showed up for the big games (except that first series with the knicks) and mailed it in for the meaningless games, bosh does the opposite, e.g. the game against the nets this past tuesday. remember bosh is the same dude who left georgia tech for the nba and the next season his college team made it to the national championship game. is it a coincidence that we haven't had a winning season in bosh's stint here? he is from texas, the home of the bumbling failures , e.g. george bush jr.</div> I agree with the basic idea behind this post, but as usual I think you're exaggerating and taking it to an extreme. Bosh definitely deserves criticism. He gets glorified because our basketball media is completely owned by MLSE and as a result he's been given the benefit of the doubt and recieves far too much hype. Very few people are willing to look at him from a distance, evaluate him as another NBA player, and critique him. He's a very versatile offensive player who tends to settle for one or two moves that start off from the elbow. He very rarely passes out of the double team and doesn't move without the ball. On defense, he gives up position too easily, can be too passive, and attempts to compensate with his athleticism. Those are all criticisms that I am willing to admit. However, I think your opinion almost always tends to be an extremely exaggerated version of the general consensus in this forum. And this latest rant against Bosh is no different. You're characterizing him as a player masquerading as someone we can build around (ala Zach Randolph) when that's hardly the truth. The first comment, especially, unfairly places all the blame on his shoulders. We all want to see him address those problems, but instead of asking for a coach/veteran that will call him out, how about asking for one that will teach him? He's still a very young player, yet has he ever had the benefit of playing under a coach that actually recognizes these problems, let alone call him out on them? He forces up bad shots and I think he needs to recognize that. But, with all the added talent, does our team play in a system that doesn't force the ball into his hands (even when he's not on the floor we play the same way)? No. We run an offensive system that, for no real reason, completely depends on his iso plays. It's not his fault that, through his 4 year career, he's never seen a different system or been groomed to play off the ball. Or taught how to play fundamental post defense that doesn't completely rely on athleticism. The real problem is that, for almost his entire career, Chris Bosh has been coached by Sam Mitchell. As for the Georgia Tech comment, I find it completely ridiculous. Not only are you ignoring the dynamics of college recruiting, but I highly doubt that you really watched GT play during and after his stint with them. The Texas comment was pretty stupid as well. I don't know how you call out another poster (for having an avatar of all things), when you add points like that at the end. I'm out.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with the basic idea behind this post, but as usual I think you're exaggerating and taking it to an extreme. Bosh definitely deserves criticism. He gets glorified because our basketball media is completely owned by MLSE and as a result he's been given the benefit of the doubt and recieves far too much hype. Very few people are willing to look at him from a distance, evaluate him as another NBA player, and critique him. He's a very versatile offensive player who tends to settle for one or two moves that start off from the elbow. He very rarely passes out of the double team and doesn't move without the ball. On defense, he gives up position too easily, can be too passive, and attempts to compensate with his athleticism. Those are all criticisms that I am willing to admit. However, I think your opinion almost always tends to be an extremely exaggerated version of the general consensus in this forum. And this latest rant against Bosh is no different. You're characterizing him as a player masquerading as someone we can build around (ala Zach Randolph) when that's hardly the truth. The first comment, especially, unfairly places all the blame on his shoulders. We all want to see him address those problems, but instead of asking for a coach/veteran that will call him out, how about asking for one that will teach him? He's still a very young player, yet has he ever had the benefit of playing under a coach that actually recognizes these problems, let alone call him out on them? He forces up bad shots and I think he needs to recognize that. But, with all the added talent, does our team play in a system that doesn't force the ball into his hands (even when he's not on the floor we play the same way)? No. We run an offensive system that, for no real reason, completely depends on his iso plays. It's not his fault that, through his 4 year career, he's never seen a different system or been groomed to play off the ball. Or taught how to play fundamental post defense that doesn't completely rely on athleticism. The real problem is that, for almost his entire career, Chris Bosh has been coached by Sam Mitchell. As for the Georgia Tech comment, I find it completely ridiculous. Not only are you ignoring the dynamics of college recruiting, but I highly doubt that you really watched GT play during and after his stint with them. The Texas comment was pretty stupid as well. I don't know how you call out another poster (for having an avatar of all things), when you add points like that at the end. I'm out.</div> sporsnet= owned by rogers; tsn=owned by bell globemedia or something like that; the score= not owned by mlse; toronto star= not owned by mlse; toronto sun: not owned by mlse; the globe and mail= not owned by mlse; national post= either owned by the asper family or conrad black, either way, not owned by mlse; the fan 590= owned by rogers. u need to work on your conspiracy theories. clearly u don't follow college basketball either cause that georgia tech team was essentially unchanged from bosh's year, just a year older. and as for your poorly articulated diatribe concerning mitchell, i concur with your points, although, u make one obvious omission in your analysis- why is he still around? ive called mitchell out long before anybody knew who u were on these message boards but colangelo allows the madness to persist.
<div class="quote_poster">deception Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> what we need is a micro manager in the mold of scott skiles, not iavorani and certainly not smitch.</div> I don't know if i think that's necessarily what we need. I think the idea of a free reign offense is an attractive one but only under certain circumstances. We can still have a somewhat open system and get the style of play we need, it just requires a coach to break some of the bad habits we have around our offense. If we can get TJ to move the ball more evenly, bosh to make quicker decisions we can get a better offensive flow going. I'd look at it this way: Right now free reign is too free and it's just so freelance that it makes no sense. There seems to be no overarching guidance behind how our offense works. We need an open system but one where the coach shows the players where to look and how to flow within the system. I'd think of it kind of like a soccer coach designing how his team plays: he's not going to dictate every pass but he's going to affect the overall methodology of what's happening. On the whole media debate.... I think in Toronto's case the media holds back because: 1) they really don't understand basketball 2) being a jerk means having your access cut 3) much of the uneducated audience can't appreciate an educated opinion (from those guys who are capable of producing it). Even at times fans get angry at any negativity, everything gets washed up in a "let's be positive, always" mentality. Edit: If anyone is looking for a prime example of this crap I'd look at Doug Smith's Nothing by (inter)Net column he publishes 2x weekly answering fan mail. It actually gives you an idea of how stupid some people actually are and the lack of basketball knowledge of the guys writing in the sports section. Smith is the biggest Raptor writer going (as far as i'm aware?) and the things he says sometimes are just terribly off base.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"He's a better player than when I was 19 or 20," Nowitzki said of the 21-year-old Bargnani. "He's going to be a heck of a player. He's a little more athletic than I even was back then. He can drive a little better than me."</div> - Disco Dirk
<div class="quote_poster">deception Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">sporsnet= owned by rogers; tsn=owned by bell globemedia or something like that; the score= not owned by mlse; toronto star= not owned by mlse; toronto sun: not owned by mlse; the globe and mail= not owned by mlse; national post= either owned by the asper family or conrad black, either way, not owned by mlse; the fan 590= owned by rogers. u need to work on your conspiracy theories. clearly u don't follow college basketball either cause that georgia tech team was essentially unchanged from bosh's year, just a year older. and as for your poorly articulated diatribe concerning mitchell, i concur with your points, although, u make one obvious omission in your analysis- why is he still around? ive called mitchell out long before anybody knew who u were on these message boards but colangelo allows the madness to persist.</div> Well, I was mainly referring to the radio and TV personalities, but you're right. I was generalizing. Either way, I'm not sure it makes such a difference. It wasn't a conspiracy theory or anything. I was actually agreeing with you about how the local basketball media doesn't dwelve deep enough into the issues that plague this team. No, I think you misunderstood what I meant about recruiting. One and done players like Bosh aren't a guarantee to lead their team anywhere, despite how highly coveted they are (Carmelo was the exception). Also, the chemistry and development that occurs over the course of a college season can always overcome a loss in talent (there are numerous examples). You seemed to imply that the Yellow Jackets were better off without Bosh, when they almost certainly would have performed better and been more successful if he had returned for another year. I'm glad that you agree with my points and the reason that I didn't bring up Colangelo (that's a point that I've agreed with you about several times before, btw) is because it wasn't relevant. The main reason I wrote up that really long post was because I felt you were unfairly placing all of the blame on Bosh and ignoring bryce40ww's valid point that a lot of Bosh's problems are a result of Mitchell's coaching. Now I find that you actually agree with me, so I have to wonder why you brushed him off like that in the first place.
Who the hell let Josh Howard wide-open under the basket in SUCH MOMENT ? Dirk outplayed young Bargnagni ofcourse, but this game should had been Toronto's. CB4 was great ! I hate losses like those. And I don't like Mavs neither.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well, I was mainly referring to the radio and TV personalities, but you're right. I was generalizing. Either way, I'm not sure it makes such a difference. It wasn't a conspiracy theory or anything. I was actually agreeing with you about how the local basketball media doesn't dwelve deep enough into the issues that plague this team. </div> o.k. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No, I think you misunderstood what I meant about recruiting. One and done players like Bosh aren't a guarantee to lead their team anywhere, despite how highly coveted they are (Carmelo was the exception). Also, the chemistry and development that occurs over the course of a college season can always overcome a loss in talent (there are numerous examples). You seemed to imply that the Yellow Jackets were better off without Bosh, when they almost certainly would have performed better and been more successful if he had returned for another year. </div> assumption cause bosh may have stunted the development of jarret jack, will bynum and luke if he was still around. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm glad that you agree with my points and the reason that I didn't bring up Colangelo (that's a point that I've agreed with you about several times before, btw) is because it wasn't relevant. The main reason I wrote up that really long post was because I felt you were unfairly placing all of the blame on Bosh and ignoring bryce40ww's valid point that a lot of Bosh's problems are a result of Mitchell's coaching. Now I find that you actually agree with me, so I have to wonder why you brushed him off like that in the first place.</div> look through my posts for the last three years and u'll see i was rippin smitch long before i started on the big bosh man. the mitchell criticism is so obvious around raptor circles these days that its a given. my beef was that it was such a superfluous post and littered with excuses for bosh as to why he doesn't perform. for instance- thus far i believe the only ones who have pointed out bosh's jumpball gaffe have been pap and myself, kinda of pathetic if u ask me. to that end, i encourage everyone to look at his eyes and the total aloofness he has to the players around him when they were jostling for position. i knew he was going to tap it back to a maverick cause they positioned themselves back to his left hand and the fact he didn't look around beforehand. do u blame mitchell for that as well? i've played like a total of 10 meaningful games in my life at the high school level and thats the first thing i would have done.
josh howard on the raps- two foreign guys, i cant really pronounce their names:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL-5B1CZZHw
<div class="quote_poster">Flow Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Who the hell let Josh Howard wide-open under the basket in SUCH MOMENT ? Dirk outplayed young Bargnagni ofcourse, but this game should had been Toronto's. CB4 was great ! I hate losses like those. And I don't like Mavs neither.</div> I believe it was Mo.
<div class="quote_poster">deception Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">josh howard on the raps- two foreign guys, i cant really pronounce their names:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL-5B1CZZHw</div> Lol, great find.
deception you're posting as if you really would not like Chris Bosh on this team, please tell us how we would perform in the long run without Bosh... Thank you
<div class="quote_poster">Mr.Wade Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">deception you're posting as if you really would not like Chris Bosh on this team, please tell us how we would perform in the long run without Bosh... Thank you</div> with tj and without bosh- we went 6-4 and with bosh we have a losing record. if we could trade bosh for a young perimeter stud, i would do it. so if joe johnson was available and i was gm, bosh would be looking for a home in atlanta right now.
<div class="quote_poster">deception Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">with tj and without bosh- we went 6-4 and with bosh we have a losing record. if we could trade bosh for a young perimeter stud, i would do it. so if joe johnson was available and i was gm, bosh would be looking for a home in atlanta right now.</div> Yikes, i dunno about that. How about Bosh for DHoward straight up? I'd do that, and i'd even throw in peterson
