<div class="quote_poster">Blurr#7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">WOW....fox 26 asked JVG about this article and Vspan's frustration and he said " I feel bad for him, because he was misled and in a lot of ways he is his own worst enemy" What the hell kinda response is that??? And what does that mean??</div> It probably means (1) if he thinks he was going to be entitled to minutes just for signing with the team he was mistaken, and (2) he isn't helping his case by moping around and and not retaining a positive attitude. Here's a translation of a Greek article from another message board (thanks dfwrox) of Van Gundy responding in some more detail to the V-Span situation: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Greek guard Vassilis Spanoulis told Greek media that he is very disappointed at his situation in Houston, felt he was deceived and ... etc. Houston time 1/22 morning, Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy responded to these comments of VSpan. JVG said he certainly understands some of VSpan's thoughts. "Of Course, this just reveals the normal disappointment on his part. He has to face a lot of new things. He has to adapt to a new coach, being away from his family and friends. He said that 'Fans love me', these kind of thoughts make it difficult for him to treat some situations correctly. So, it's really difficult for him now." JVG said "I understand what he is going through. I told him very clearly, if you have any questions, just come to me. I didn't talk to him before he signed the contract. I am not surprised with how he felt. After I watched his game, after I talked to him, after I watched his practice, it is no surprise. Most young players will struggle. When he was in our rotation, he did some things well, but there were some thing he needs to improve. The issue now is if he is not on the court, how can he improve? This is a good question, a big problem for all the young players." JVG analyzed three major problems of VSpan: "Let's look at some of his stats: his turn overs are high, his fouls are high, and his shooting percentage is low. Therefore, everyone has to first evaluate him first, think about how he can improve himself to help the team" JVG also said, he need to acheive a balance between winning and give young players a chance. " But right now, the problem is how we can improve our team. My point of view is, let the better players fit with our star players, give us the best fit to win the games. If he improves, he will get another chance, but when he gets this chance, he should perform better than his last game. This is definitely is a lesson to learn. Maybe he is not ready. Unfortunately, all the aura and attention has been on the game where Greece beat USA, not many analysis was done on how they got routed by Spain without Pau Gasol. This league is just like this, every night you have to give your best. For Billy, too high an expectation put him into his current disappointment. I hope he can be stronger mentally." JVG hope VSpan will not let his disappointment gets in the way of improving his game. "I think he has told many that he is not happy here. For now, he would rather go back than stay here. I hope he can get through this difficulty, hope he can improve himself, be more patient, perform better on the court. Eventually, he may feel all these struggle and agony is worth it." JVG said, "But for young players, it is really hard to do so. Novak is different. He is very strong mentally. Everyone is different. I hope Billy can continue to work hard, remain strong in the face of difficulties." JVG said he did not close the door on VSpan. "In this league, most important is to be strong mentally. Billy has ability, has talent. I love his tenacity on the court. I don't play him now does not mean I will not play him in the future, does not mean he is not a good player. Hope the disappointment he felt now does not hinder his improvement. We will see". </div>
God JVG is an idiot! I would be really disappointed if Vspan goes back to Greece. How can rookies get better if you dont play them? Will it take Tmac to go back down for Vspan to get more playing time? A good coach on the other hand develops his players. For example, Phil Jackson of LAL has always been playing rookies. This year, I think Jordan Farmar is developing into a pretty good player. We need a new coach.
<div class="quote_poster">ownage Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> A good coach on the other hand develops his players. For example, Phil Jackson of LAL has always been playing rookies. This year, I think Jordan Farmar is developing into a pretty good player. </div> That's just not true. Ronnie Turiaf rarely played last year, and he's playing very well this season. And Andrew Bynum played in only half the games last year. Anyways, this Blinebury article in the Chronicle fleshes out the V-span story a bit more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4490534.html
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That's just not true. Ronnie Turiaf rarely played last year, and he's playing very well this season. And Andrew Bynum played in only half the games last year. Anyways, this Blinebury article in the Chronicle fleshes out the V-span story a bit more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4490534.html</div> What about Luke Walton and other rookies he DID play. Phil Jackson has a history of letting his rookies get some good minutes. On the other hand, JVG pulls the plug on his rookies after they make one mistake (then we don't see them again for 10-15 games). The margin of error in JVG's system is way to slim for a rookie. Since he is a defensive coach (with no clue on offense), you'd think a solid defender like Spanoulis would be welcomed. If you can find a way to give Hayes minutes, you can give Billy, Snyder, and Bonzi minutes too. He's gotta loosen up a bit....... NOTE: I have yet to see JVG pat his players on the back and tell them "good job" when coming outta the game. He's the ONLY coach that doesn't do that. Those are the things rookies thrive on
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What about Luke Walton and other rookies he DID play. Phil Jackson has a history of letting his rookies get some good minutes. </div> What about them? I can name rookies JVG played as well. But suggesting that Jackson has played all his rookies, even the ones with promise, regular minutes is a falsehood. I just gave two counter-examples from last season.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What about them? I can name rookies JVG played as well. But suggesting that Jackson has played all his rookies, even the ones with promise, regular minutes is a falsehood. I just gave two counter-examples from last season.</div> We can agree that JVG is a hard coach to play for as a rookie. My point is Jeff is a perfectionist and expects a rookie to come off the pine, not miss a shot, not turn the ball over and god forbid he misses a defensive rotation. They are rookies for a reason and especially a guy who comes from over seas that has to be acclamated to the NBA style of play. Vspan wants minutes and if JL3 is getting them then why shouldn't he?
Jackson only plays rookies if he feels they are NBA ready. I'm guessing the same goes with Jeff Van Gundy. Like durvasa pointed out, Bynum and Turiaf didn't get much playing time in their rookie seasons, simply because they just weren't ready to play at the next level (although Turiaf had heart surgery). This season though, rookie point guard Jordan Farmar has gotten tons of playing time. Why? Because he is ready. I think that if VSpan is indeed ready to play at the next level, he will get more playing time. In Luther Head's rookie season, he averaged 28 minutes per game, while being coached under JVG. In Luke Walton's rookie season, he averaged 10 minutes per game. So again, JVG will play rookies if he feels they are ready
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> In Luther Head's rookie season, he averaged 28 minutes per game, while being coached under JVG. In Luke Walton's rookie season, he averaged 10 minutes per game. So again, JVG will play rookies if he feels they are ready</div> Luther only got so much PT because of injuries.
<div class="quote_poster">Blurr#7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Luther only got so much PT because of injuries.</div> He was averaging more than 10 MPG even before the injuries.
<div class="quote_poster">Blurr#7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Luther only got so much PT because of injuries.</div> He was averaging more than 10 MPG even before the injuries. <div class="quote_poster">Blurr#7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">We can agree that JVG is a hard coach to play for as a rookie. My point is Jeff is a perfectionist and expects a rookie to come off the pine, not miss a shot, not turn the ball over and god forbid he misses a defensive rotation. They are rookies for a reason and especially a guy who comes from over seas that has to be acclamated to the NBA style of play. Vspan wants minutes and if JL3 is getting them then why shouldn't he?</div> Vspan was getting minutes earlier while Lucas was parked on the bench. How come you weren't complaining then about Lucas not getting playing time? On the season, Lucas has played in 22 games and averaged 9.1 MPG. Spanoulis has played in 18 games and averaged 10.0 MPG. And let's look at it further. While Lucas has been on the court this season, we're +60 and we've only averaged 12 turnovers per 48 minutes as a team. With Vspan, we're -12 and we've averaged 17 turnovers per 48 minutes a team. Lucas has a 12.9 PER (and it's that low largely because of his bad shooting game against Phoenix), and Vspan has an abysmal 4.3 PER in comparable minutes. So, (1) JVG hasn't been showing any sort of favoritism towards Lucas over Spanoulis as far as their minutes, and (2) Lucas has clearly performed better in his limited minutes. Anything else?
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">He was averaging more than 10 MPG even before the injuries. Vspan was getting minutes earlier while Lucas was parked on the bench. How come you weren't complaining then about Lucas not getting playing time? On the season, Lucas has played in 22 games and averaged 9.1 MPG. Spanoulis has played in 18 games and averaged 10.0 MPG. And let's look at it further. While Lucas has been on the court this season, we're +60 and we've only averaged 12 turnovers per 48 minutes as a team. With Vspan, we're -12 and we've averaged 17 turnovers per 48 minutes a team. Lucas has a 12.9 PER (and it's that low largely because of his bad shooting game against Phoenix), and Vspan has an abysmal 4.3 PER in comparable minutes. So, (1) JVG hasn't been showing any sort of favoritism towards Lucas over Spanoulis as far as their minutes, and (2) Lucas has clearly performed better in his limited minutes. Anything else?</div> It's not a contest between John Lucas and Spanoulis. We just wanna see Spanoulis get a chance to play. If he doesn't produce, then he isn't ready. But if we don't play him we'll never know how good the kid can be. He's an up & down type player who'll push the ball. With Bonzi and Snyder back, this line up will benefit him Spanoulis Bonzi Snyder Battier Howard ^^^^This line up is our running line up. Bonzi & Snyder can finish while Spanoulis creates. Battier & Howard can also score. I feel comfortable with Spanoulis creating more so being just a spot up shooter. It's the same thing they did to Stro last year. We need to somehow speed up the offense to the benefit of some of our other players.
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's not a contest between John Lucas and Spanoulis. We just wanna see Spanoulis get a chance to play. If he doesn't produce, then he isn't ready. But if we don't play him we'll never know how good the kid can be. He's an up & down type player who'll push the ball. With Bonzi and Snyder back, this line up will benefit him </div> Well, maybe the reason why JVG isn't giving him playing time is because he isn't ready?
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">So, (1) JVG hasn't been showing any sort of favoritism towards Lucas over Spanoulis as far as their minutes, and (2) Lucas has clearly performed better in his limited minutes. Anything else?</div> Who said anything about favoritism? So Vspan should just shut up and sit at the end of the bench after he was told he'd get PT. All I'm saying is you can't expect every player to develop the same way. Vspan wants to get in the game and is not afraid to say it. And please JL3 was a long shot to make the team last year and just made the cut this year. In your eyes JVG must be the perfect coach
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well, maybe the reason why JVG isn't giving him playing time is because he isn't ready? </div> And how would Jeff know? He's never put on a NBA jersey! And poor Novak! This kid will be turned into solely a 3 point shooter. his role is to come in and shoot 3's! he'll never develop other facets of his game because here that's what the coach wants him to do and if he doesn't, back to the pine!
<div class="quote_poster">Blurr#7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Who said anything about favoritism? So Vspan should just shut up and sit at the end of the bench after he was told he'd get PT. All I'm saying is you can't expect every player to develop the same way. Vspan wants to get in the game and is not afraid to say it. And please JL3 was a long shot to make the team last year and just made the cut this year. In your eyes JVG must be the perfect coach</div> You asked the question why Spanoulis wasn't getting minutes while Lucas was. I answered it. I don't think Van Gundy is a perfect coach. But there's a reason behind his decisions; it's not like he's an idiot. In a nutshell, he believes: (1) Short rotations are generally more effective (which is true, at least in the short term). (2) His priority is winning now, rather than "developing" players for the future. (3) Young, unproven players have to earn their spot in the rotation by working hard, maintaing the right attitude, and making the most of their opportunities whenever they get a chance to break in. Whatever he's done this season with regard to handling personnel is pretty much consistent with those three principles. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Blurr#7:</div><div class="quote_post"> And how would Jeff know? He's never put on a NBA jersey! And poor Novak! This kid will be turned into solely a 3 point shooter. his role is to come in and shoot 3's! he'll never develop other facets of his game because here that's what the coach wants him to do and if he doesn't, back to the pine!</div> JVG is an NBA coach. It's his job to evaluate players and know if they're ready to contribute. He's watched and observed Spanoulis far more, and much more closely, than you. As for Novak, I don't think you know what you're talking about. The reason he isn't getting playing time is because JVG doesn't want him to be a one-dimensional player who only shoots 3s. He's said that Novak has one great skill, but he needs to develop other parts of his game if he wants to be a consistent rotation player.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">In a nutshell, he believes: (1) Short rotations are generally more effective (which is true, at least in the short term).</div> Tell that to the Mavs & Phoenix (the best teams in the league) who's rotation is far from short. <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">(2) His priority is winning now, rather than "developing" players for the future.</div> That's a cop out. You can "win now" and still give ur rookies a chance. Great coaches now how to do both. <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">(3) Young, unproven players have to earn their spot in the rotation by working hard, maintaing the right attitude, and making the most of their opportunities whenever they get a chance to break in</div> The key is "whenever they get a chance to play". The problem is they'll BARELY get that chance on a JVG team. If you make one mistake ur prolly not gonna see any action for a few months. That's ridiculous......... <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">JVG is an NBA coach. It's his job to evaluate players and know if they're ready to contribute. He's watched and observed Spanoulis far more, and much more closely, than you.</div> But he's done a poor job of "observing" his players. He puts far too much emphasis on defense while ignoring the offensive attributes of a player. For example, he'll leave Hayes in for an extended period of time because he feels he's a good defender. All the while our offense has come to a hault and Tmac's tired. Instead of makin a offensive sub, he'll elect to continue brickin jumpers relyin on slowing the game down. That's why we're near the bottom in possession per game. <div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">As for Novak, I don't think you know what you're talking about. The reason he isn't getting playing time is because JVG doesn't want him to be a one-dimensional player who only shoots 3s. He's said that Novak has one great skill, but he needs to develop other parts of his game if he wants to be a consistent rotation player.</div> This says to me that JVG doesn't know how to use Novak effectivley. Theres no excuse for a player that shoots that good to not be gettin minutes. We drafted the kid knowing that he's not much of anything but a shooter. A great coach would play to his strengths. If it were the other way around and Novak was a great defender and lousy shooter, he'd be playin 40mins a game for JVG team. Don't suprise me
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If it were the other way around and Novak was a great defender and lousy shooter, he'd be playin 40mins a game for JVG team. Don't suprise me</div> TRUTH LIKE WHOA!!!!!! *cough* *cough* Ryan Bowen!!
<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Tell that to the Mavs & Phoenix (the best teams in the league) who's rotation is far from short. </div> Phoenix doesn't have a short rotation? Have you actually watched the Suns play this season? Pretty much the only time more than 8 players play in a game is in their blowouts <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That's a cop out. You can "win now" and still give ur rookies a chance. Great coaches now how to do both.</div> Our rookies have gotten a chance. They will probably get more chances by the time the season is done. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The key is "whenever they get a chance to play". The problem is they'll BARELY get that chance on a JVG team. If you make one mistake ur prolly not gonna see any action for a few months. That's ridiculous.........</div> V-Span's game log: http://sportsline.com/nba/players/player/g...ogs/2006/498317 He got minutes in 12 straight games, from 11/20 to 12/14. What did he do in those minutes? <div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><br/>(boxscore stats and +/- are per 40 minutes)<br/>GPMPG pts reb ast ts% stl topf+/-<br/>1213.89.9 3.2 4.4 40% 1.2 3.9 3.9 -4.6<br/></div> That's just dreadful offense. Further: In those 12 games, with Vassilis on the floor we were outscored 6 times. Without him on the floor, we were only outscored twice. Over the entire stretch, we went 8-4 largely because both T-Mac and Yao were playing 10 of those games. In the last 2 games of that stretch, when T-Mac was injured, we were a -31 in 29 minutes with Vassilis on the court, and +21 when he wasn't playing. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But he's done a poor job of "observing" his players. He puts far too much emphasis on defense while ignoring the offensive attributes of a player. For example, he'll leave Hayes in for an extended period of time because he feels he's a good defender. All the while our offense has come to a hault and Tmac's tired. Instead of makin a offensive sub, he'll elect to continue brickin jumpers relyin on slowing the game down. That's why we're near the bottom in possession per game. </div> Guess what? The Spurs, Mavs, and Pistons all average fewer possessions per game than us. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This says to me that JVG doesn't know how to use Novak effectivley. Theres no excuse for a player that shoots that good to not be gettin minutes. We drafted the kid knowing that he's not much of anything but a shooter. A great coach would play to his strengths. If it were the other way around and Novak was a great defender and lousy shooter, he'd be playin 40mins a game for JVG team. Don't suprise me</div> Perhaps. But that isn't the converse of the current situation. Novak is NOT a "great" offensive player. He's an average offensive player -- he just happens to be a very good spot up shooter (potentially, based on the preseason). He doesn't handle the ball well, he's not a great passer, and he obviously isn't going to get you any second chances by crashing the offensive glass. So, really you should ask this: if Novak was very good in one area in defense, but poor in the rest, and if he didn't do anything right offensively -- would he get minutes? It's very unlikely.
