<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The scouting report on Chris Mullin remains relatively unchanged since his prime playing days 15 years ago. Give him a good look, and he'll kill you. Force him to create his own shot, and the results are problematic. In playing terms it quantified pretty simply -- 18.2 points per game over 16 NBA seasons. In terms of basketball management, well, let's just say Mullin got a whole lot smarter when Don Nelson showed up. That's not to say he was Jethro Bodine with a Brooklyn accent before. Since his first days as the Warriors executive VP of hoops ops, Mullin has been bold and decisive. Not only has he made big decisions, he's put a face on them. Those decisions have worked out better when Mullin was dealing with proven commodities. His trade for Baron Davis -- name the two players Mullin gave up, and win a prize -- brought the Warriors the one dominant player they have today. But that was an easy call. Though he was hurt at the time of the trade, Davis was an All-Star. His talent was a matter of record. Coaxing Don Nelson out of retirement was another inspiring move, and Mullin was uniquely qualified to make it happen. Given that Nelson was sitting on more than 1,100 NBA coaching victories at the time, it wasn't quite on the order of taking a flyer on Mike Montgomery. Wednesday's eight-player trade with the Indiana Pacers was pure genius. Let's assume you learned of the deal by reading the little bug in the lower right-hand corner of the ESPNNews screen: "Warriors & Pacers make 8-player trade." Your first thought had to be, "Wonder if they were able to dump one of long-hairs?" To learn that the Warriors had unloaded both Mike Dunleavy and Troy Murphy came as a shock. And Ike Diogu, too? For Al Harrington? Brilliant! It didn't even matter that the Warriors took Stephen Jackson (a shooting guard in the literal sense), along with Sarunas Jasikevicius and Josh Powell. In the absence of elite talent, good contracts are the most prized commodity in the NBA. On Wednesday, Mullin got out from under two carnivorous cap-eaters. That's the praise. Here comes the disclaimer: Wednesday's trade wouldn't have been necessary had Mullin not grossly overestimated the value of Murphy and Dunleavy (both of whom he signed to huge contract extensions), as well as Diogu (whom he took with the ninth pick in the 2005 draft). And it likely wouldn't have come to pass had Nelson not told him -- with his deeds if not real words -- "I'm not playing these flat-foots." Nelson knows talent. When he's wrong, it isn't for long. Dunleavy, for example. Before training camp, Nelson was certain Dunleavy would blossom in his uptempo system. That Nelson deemed Dunleavy a "disaster" on opening night tells you how long it took him to come to his senses.</div> Source
I'm sure glad Nelson is stepping up as de-facto GM. We would have never gone anywhere with Montgomery following Mullin. There was just no direction with those two together because Mullin had no direction or true vision and Montgomery had no clout/aggressiveness/decision-making sense to bench the crap players. He just went along with what Mullin signed for him. An nba head coach essentially has to pull the strings if his GM has no experience to know what makes a good team out on the floor. One sort of needs to have had built a basketball program before and knows what makes it work out on the floor. The GM in that case has to support the short/long term plan with what can work with the current coach and any future coaches should there be a change in style/game-to-game strategy. We have to have a better landscape looking at least two years down the road is what I'm saying. I think Nelson is good for that for the time being, until or if we do an Avery Johnson type move. Serious, we love Nelson now, but that could change at anytime small ball gets old and we want more flexibility to play bigger ball and slower tempos. I still believe that a good halfcourt team can easily defeat a fastbreaking team because the fastbreaking team has to play at a high tempo to survive. After 82 games, they better hope it can win something in the playoffs. I want to beat a lot of nba teams at any style and I think balance is the most necessary for long term success. Hopefully someday. But we need strong anchors and foundation players first.
It's much easier for a GM to do their job when his head coach actually has a gameplan. Don Nelson needs specific players with specific skillsets to operate in his system successfully. He said from day one, he doesn't know what he has on this team and will spend this season figuring it out. He figured out Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy will never get a handle on his system and Nelson has made his first mark on revamping this roster. Nelson has some new puzzle pieces to work with, and I wouldn't be surprised to see more trades taking place in Golden State this year or over the summer. Ultimately Nelson will want to acquire more draft picks, he's always had success finding talent late in the draft and the 2007 class is loaded with potential.
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's much easier for a GM to do their job when his head coach actually has a gameplan. Don Nelson needs specific players with specific skillsets to operate in his system successfully. He said from day one, he doesn't know what he has on this team and will spend this season figuring it out. He figured out Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy will never get a handle on his system and Nelson has made his first mark on revamping this roster. Nelson has some new puzzle pieces to work with, and I wouldn't be surprised to see more trades taking place in Golden State this year or over the summer. Ultimately Nelson will want to acquire more draft picks, he's always had success finding talent late in the draft and the 2007 class is loaded with potential.</div> Well Shape, I don't think Mullin gave Montgomery a chance to build up or recommend pieces. Mullin maybe thought since Montgomery was an nba rookie head coach (which he was), that he better do all the decision-making himself despite never having coached a game to know what would actually fit in any kind of system. He got players that probably would never be in a starting 5 man motion offense or play together in any offense. Stonehands Foyle wouldn't be the choice of center obviously, it would be more like Jason Collins/Brad Miller/Curtis Borchardt. Not so much physical centers, but all-around guys who can pose as playmakers and do the little things...like catch the ball. I don't think Montgomery would use Dunleavy or shooting guard Fisher that much, but all these weak starters had nothing but rookies behind them. And dumb stubborn old Monty hates rookies. So I think Monty never really got a chance because Mullin basically blew it and it was obvious he never really studied the MO on Monty and his motion offense system. They need better shooters, passers, and fundamentals type guys like the Jazz of old. Pure point guard, a good big man, guys who can shoot, pass, dribble, and play man-to-man D or trapping zones. Montgomery just gave up though. But Nelson was willing to step up and call Mullin out behind closed doors I bet. I mean Nelson won't publicly say it, but I'm sure he's going to say that Mullin has nobody to blame but himself for why he had that bad situation he had to come into. I like Nelson all the more for that... for now.
How is that Nelly's deal? I don't get it. Could it not be that Mullin understood that not trading Ike last year for Artest was a good move because he'd be able to unload contracts this year? Everyone said that the signings of Dun and Murphy were terrible but look at it this way. 1) Murphy JRich were signed together when Murphy was healthy and still unproved. The gamble is that at least 1 would blow up, JRich improved and now is good value considering he would've made a lot more had he waited. 2) Dunleavy was definitely signed too soon, but he was traded wasn't he? 3) Fisher's contract was WAY too long... I was one to think that we'd never be able to move him. He got snatched up in a hurry, no problems there Was Ike too much of a price in order to clean up for past gambles? Considering the direction the franchise is moving, I say not at all. Sure we have WAY too many swing men now, but the team should be able to flat out run. I wouldnt put it past Mully to swap out a 2 or 3 for another athletic big. He's drafted solid talent, made good trades. Perhaps Mullin understands the game more than people give him credit for. Hes taken some bad gambles, but cleaned up some of those messes pretty well. And with Biedrins, Pietrus, Azubuike, Ellis, and Barnes he has room to mess up on those gambles. I wouldn't go and crown Nelly the savior. People should give Mully the credit for cleaning up the mess he created (with the exception of Foyle, all in 1 season) BTW... Soon people will be begging us for Foyle. A year before his contract will come off the books will make him a powerful trade piece.
<div class="quote_poster">CohanHater Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How is that Nelly's deal? I don't get it. Could it not be that Mullin understood that not trading Ike last year for Artest was a good move because he'd be able to unload contracts this year? Everyone said that the signings of Dun and Murphy were terrible but look at it this way. 1) Murphy JRich were signed together when Murphy was healthy and still unproved. The gamble is that at least 1 would blow up, JRich improved and now is good value considering he would've made a lot more had he waited. 2) Dunleavy was definitely signed too soon, but he was traded wasn't he? 3) Fisher's contract was WAY too long... I was one to think that we'd never be able to move him. He got snatched up in a hurry, no problems there Was Ike too much of a price in order to clean up for past gambles? Considering the direction the franchise is moving, I say not at all. Sure we have WAY too many swing men now, but the team should be able to flat out run. I wouldnt put it past Mully to swap out a 2 or 3 for another athletic big. He's drafted solid talent, made good trades. Perhaps Mullin understands the game more than people give him credit for. Hes taken some bad gambles, but cleaned up some of those messes pretty well. And with Biedrins, Pietrus, Azubuike, Ellis, and Barnes he has room to mess up on those gambles. I wouldn't go and crown Nelly the savior. People should give Mully the credit for cleaning up the mess he created (with the exception of Foyle, all in 1 season) BTW... Soon people will be begging us for Foyle. A year before his contract will come off the books will make him a powerful trade piece.</div> Yeah good points, but we'll never really know who was the focal point of tipping the scale to get those deals done, I guess. I just want to both Mullin/Nelson are having to work together to achieve what Nelson wants to do. It could be a variety of people, but this whole fiasco could have been avoided from day 1 and without the need to give up #9 in the 2005 to some team like Indiana. We've got such little room to screw up before we have to start all over again. That's why I hope we can do better with FA signings and team budget. BTW how good would Andrew Bynum, Gerald Green, or Danny Granger look right about now if we knew this was the direction we were going to take?
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well Shape, I don't think Mullin gave Montgomery a chance to build up or recommend pieces. Mullin maybe thought since Montgomery was an nba rookie head coach (which he was), that he better do all the decision-making himself despite never having coached a game to know what would actually fit in any kind of system. He got players that probably would never be in a starting 5 man motion offense or play together in any offense. Stonehands Foyle wouldn't be the choice of center obviously, it would be more like Jason Collins/Brad Miller/Curtis Borchardt. Not so much physical centers, but all-around guys who can pose as playmakers and do the little things...like catch the ball. I don't think Montgomery would use Dunleavy or shooting guard Fisher that much, but all these weak starters had nothing but rookies behind them. And dumb stubborn old Monty hates rookies. So I think Monty never really got a chance because Mullin basically blew it and it was obvious he never really studied the MO on Monty and his motion offense system. They need better shooters, passers, and fundamentals type guys like the Jazz of old. Pure point guard, a good big man, guys who can shoot, pass, dribble, and play man-to-man D or trapping zones. Montgomery just gave up though. But Nelson was willing to step up and call Mullin out behind closed doors I bet. I mean Nelson won't publicly say it, but I'm sure he's going to say that Mullin has nobody to blame but himself for why he had that bad situation he had to come into. I like Nelson all the more for that... for now.</div> I completely agree, but Monty should share equal blame in the construction of those teams. I remember an article written about Mullin when he interviewed Monty. From the start Mullin asked Monty if he was open to "new ideas" and Monty went along for the ride. The entire time Monty was with the organization he didn't know how to assert his voice. He wasn't comfortable talking to his superstar player because he didn't have the "respect" around the league. He was always walking on egg shells and never imposed his will on Mullin to what he needed to be successful. Bringing in Nellie was a brilliant move, because Nellie has a proven track record, has GM experience, and has always been willing to work with his GM to get the pieces he wanted. When he was Dallas he was hell bent on acquiring Dirk Nowitzki. At the time the Dallas higher ups said he can't have Dirk because the more pressing need was acquiring a point guard. Originally Dallas was going to draft a point guard, but Nellie was able to trade for Steve Nash, and then got his man Dirk in the Milwaukee trade. Nellie orchestrated everything to get the guy he wanted and the GM and owner gave him the leway to do it. I suspect Mullin and Nelson have a similar relationship, and it should result in dramatic improvement in the roster and success of the Warriors franchise. It's not going to happen overnight, but Nellie will continue to tweak this roster until he gets the role players needed to win.
No doubt it would've been easier to move guys had he not gambled, but I'm guessing that had Murphy not gotten that contract, Jason's would've been much higher. Fisher was the 1st free agent we had signed in years. As much as I was against that deal it did put the Warriors on the map. And now, people know that Cohan will open up his pocket book. Ok, sometimes for the wrong guys, but this team has a legit chance at taking that 8 or 7 seed now. Especially if there's a trade for a solid big in the near future.
<div class="quote_poster">CohanHater Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How is that Nelly's deal? I don't get it. Could it not be that Mullin understood that not trading Ike last year for Artest was a good move because he'd be able to unload contracts this year? Everyone said that the signings of Dun and Murphy were terrible but look at it this way. 1) Murphy JRich were signed together when Murphy was healthy and still unproved. The gamble is that at least 1 would blow up, JRich improved and now is good value considering he would've made a lot more had he waited. 2) Dunleavy was definitely signed too soon, but he was traded wasn't he? 3) Fisher's contract was WAY too long... I was one to think that we'd never be able to move him. He got snatched up in a hurry, no problems there Was Ike too much of a price in order to clean up for past gambles? Considering the direction the franchise is moving, I say not at all. Sure we have WAY too many swing men now, but the team should be able to flat out run. I wouldnt put it past Mully to swap out a 2 or 3 for another athletic big. He's drafted solid talent, made good trades. Perhaps Mullin understands the game more than people give him credit for. Hes taken some bad gambles, but cleaned up some of those messes pretty well. And with Biedrins, Pietrus, Azubuike, Ellis, and Barnes he has room to mess up on those gambles. I wouldn't go and crown Nelly the savior. People should give Mully the credit for cleaning up the mess he created (with the exception of Foyle, all in 1 season) BTW... Soon people will be begging us for Foyle. A year before his contract will come off the books will make him a powerful trade piece.</div> I agree, Nelson shouldn't be deemed the savior until the Warriors can definitively prove the new players workout. However, I disagree that Mullin was the person pushing for the trade. I think Don Nelson did all he could to give Murph and Duns a chance to play within his system, and when they failed to meet expectations, Mullin finally saw the light. I'm sure they worked together on figuring out who they could get for Dunleavy and Murphy, but any GM would be reluctant to trade away two pieces they invested so much into. Mullin deserves credit for finally realizing his blunders, but I think Nelson deserves the credit for putting Mullin on the fast track to reaching that realization. EDIT: Mullin's inexperience and impatience attributed to over paying Dunleavy. Instead of letting the market dictate Dunleavy's extension, Mullin jumped the gun and signed Dunleavy for too, much and too, long. No other team had the money or desire to invest in Dunleavy. The Warriors owned his Bird Right's, and could match or outbid any offer Duns would have found in the free agent market.
I don't know who actually pulled off the deal but I'd have more reason to believe it was mostly Mullin's work, though I'm sure he and Nellie worked together. On Chad Ford's interview with Donnie Walsh on ESPN.com, Walsh says that the only people who knew about the trade were Walsh, Bird, and Mullin (and presumably Nelson because apparently he called his friend Popovic and asked him if Jackson was really a thug or an ok guy, Pop obviously said Jax was ok so Nellie agreed), even Carlisle didn't know about the trade until the morning it was completed. Mullin was working his ass off trying to move Murphy last season but couldn't get anything done and he was also trying to get Harrington but failed because Indy had the giant TE. This trade has Mullin written all over it IMO but I'm sure Nelson has also told him that Dun and Murphy aren't working out and they should be moved. It definitely does help Mullin that his coach knows what he wants, Mullin is obviously very active in talking to other GMs, now he doesn't have to worry about deciding who to put on the team since Nelson knows what hes doing. All Mully has to do is get the guys Nellie wants. Its a good thing that we now have a guy who knows how to build a successful team but Mullin is the guy on the phones talking to the other GMs and seeing whats available. Plus he made some pretty damned good draft picks with Biedrins at #11, Monta at #42 and got Baron for basically nothing. Those 3 guys have been the core for the team this season and look to continue to be a part of the core players for a long time. Its great to have Nellie around for more guidance, but Mullin should still get a lot of the credit for admitting his mistakes and doing a pretty solid job of cleaning them up.
Everyone has generally valid arguments. Basically, I think we can say that the team of management and head coach is the best it has been in a long, long time. I don't really care who gets more credit as long as good things are happening. The Mullin/Montgomery team did not work. Mullin's plan, even before Montgomery was head coach, was very uncertain. His first move, I believe was the Jamison trade. That was more of a position trade for future possibilities. The worst move was firing Musselman and hiring the underachieving (at that time after coming up very short in the NCAA tournament after nearly going undefeated, or did they? I have forgotten...) Mike Montgomery. The next moves of course were the extentions of Foyle and the signing of Fisher, which I think he was trying to do to help Montgomery. Basically it can be said that the team of Montgomery/Mullin was not effective. Montgomery was constantly in the learning stages and knew absolutely nothing and really couldn't help Mullin by getting players that he wanted. I mean even Eric Musselman was able to get some players from nowhere that fit the system that he wanted to play and that would be effective. Montgomery just had no idea. He constantly said it was a players' league but he didn't know which players he needed for himself to be successful or to make this team successful. He couldn't even realize the talent of Monta Ellis or Andris Biedrins. The players had no idea what to do. It was basically trashy basketball and business (i.e. bad salaries) from this organization. Thankfully that chapter of Warriors basketball is over. Basically the Mullin/Nelson team is 100 times better and that is all that matters. If you want to make arguments for Mullin to get all the credit, then great. If you want to give all the credit to Nelson, then go for it. I am just happy that the team is here for the Warriors. Seriously anytime a the coach and GM can be on the same page things are going to work out. When they aren't, you need to be very lucky. I mean look at the Celtics. I doubt that they have had a very good coach/GM relationship since Danny Ainge has been GM. And what you have there is just a bunch of young/high potential players with a super star that really has no direction. That was pretty much the Warriors.
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I completely agree, but Monty should share equal blame in the construction of those teams. I remember an article written about Mullin when he interviewed Monty. From the start Mullin asked Monty if he was open to "new ideas" and Monty went along for the ride. The entire time Monty was with the organization he didn't know how to assert his voice. He wasn't comfortable talking to his superstar player because he didn't have the "respect" around the league. He was always walking on egg shells and never imposed his will on Mullin to what he needed to be successful. Bringing in Nellie was a brilliant move, because Nellie has a proven track record, has GM experience, and has always been willing to work with his GM to get the pieces he wanted. When he was Dallas he was hell bent on acquiring Dirk Nowitzki. At the time the Dallas higher ups said he can't have Dirk because the more pressing need was acquiring a point guard. Originally Dallas was going to draft a point guard, but Nellie was able to trade for Steve Nash, and then got his man Dirk in the Milwaukee trade. Nellie orchestrated everything to get the guy he wanted and the GM and owner gave him the leway to do it. I suspect Mullin and Nelson have a similar relationship, and it should result in dramatic improvement in the roster and success of the Warriors franchise. It's not going to happen overnight, but Nellie will continue to tweak this roster until he gets the role players needed to win.</div> Yeah, I agree with this. I wasn't saying nobody was innocent. It took an organization to fall together. Before Nelson, I've been worried about the blind leading the blind.
