Can anyone think up a plan to get us an nba competitive power forward this season? It seems like very few teams would give up their best big man players unless there's something wrong with them (like they stink at D or are slow or aren't very good passers). Also, let's say if we avoid the lottery. Who do we think we can get? Josh McRoberts? Tiago Splitter or some other international big man? I'm a big fan of passing fours that can post up using solid footwork, score with either hand, and can rebound, drive it some, and shoot from at least 18 feet. They don't have to block shots, but they have to put their hand up to make like they're going to block the shot.
Custodian- I haven't seen the new players yet but I thought Harrington played PF. I read that he played SF with the Pacers and it didn't work out to well as JO and Harrington played in the same space. If that is the case he seems to have the body of a 3 but plays like a 4. Sounds like Jamison ver 2. I would prefer a more traditional PF but with Nelson maybe we need an outside shooting 3 and a back up 4?
Give anything other than Monta, Beans, Baron, or JRich to get AK-47. The guy had a triple double in points, rebounds, and 10 blocks last year against Sacramento. He led the league in total blocks last year. He is a defensive machine. He has been injured this season, but at some point he will return to form, dominate his position again, become an all-star, and everyone will laugh at the thought of Utah trading him. Pietrus / Barnes / Foyle / picks for AK There you go.
If you're talking about starting PFs there aren't many available, Kirilenko and Pau are our only choices really. We could get a solid PF in the draft, in the mid first round Tiago Splitter could be available. Hes a lot like Biedrins physically and their games are very similar, Splitter is much smarter and more mature but hes also 2 years older. Haven't seen much of Darrell Arthur myself but I like his physical tools as well as his production for Kansas. Hes a freshman, freak athlete, 6'9 or 6'10 and about 225-230. Hes got a good faceup game and decent mid range jumper, can play both SF or PF but hes not a tweener, which is why I think he'd be great in our system. Good defender and shotblocker, runs the floor like a deer, solid shotblocker. Won a few state titles in high school in Texas and was the tournament MVP both years. In the second round Sean Williams would be a god pick to take a flyer on. He would be a mid first round pick but he got kicked off the Boston College team a week ago so his stock has fallen. I'm pretty sure it was for abusing the drug policy multiple times, so he should fit right in in the NBA, look at how Cliff Robinson has done . Hes a freak athlete and crazy shotblocker, averaged 5 blocks per game which is nuts for a player at a top quality school like BC. Not a great rebounder though and gets into foul trouble a lot. Another second round flyer would be Alexis Ajinca. Hes another freak athlete at 7'0 and 210 lbs. I have never seen him play but based on the scouting reports he has a good jump shot out to 3 pt, can handle the ball and pass well for his size, huge wingspan and good shotblocker, smart player, good decision maker, has good coordination and hands. Obviously one if his weaknesses is strength, at 7'0 tall he weighs less than Baron Davis and Kelenna Azubuike, also needs to develop a back to the basket game. He could even move up in the draft to mid-first or late lotto probably based on how he does in workouts and whatnot. Just say no to McRoberts, I hate his game, doesn't do anything particularly well and hes a soft tweener.
<div class="quote_poster">bayareafan85 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Custodian- I haven't seen the new players yet but I thought Harrington played PF. I read that he played SF with the Pacers and it didn't work out to well as JO and Harrington played in the same space. If that is the case he seems to have the body of a 3 but plays like a 4. Sounds like Jamison ver 2. I would prefer a more traditional PF but with Nelson maybe we need an outside shooting 3 and a back up 4?</div> You're right, Harrington is like Jamison in a way only not as good. He plays between a 3 and a 4, but has the body of a four and the strength of a three. He's not strong enough for most fours and he's not quick enough for most threes. While he's very athletic in terms of jumping, he's not overly quick or that skilled with the ball to be a three. He's an all-around player, but there's not one skill about his game that bleeds dominance. He's a better Dunleavy without the unselfishness... or the hands I might add. I think what Indiana tried to do was they tried to make Harrington into a run n' gun power forward/center because of his 240-250 lb weight and 6'9 height, but the guy couldn't rebound or bang like the big guys do. His game as a big man is a bit misleading because he doesn't really play bigger like his true position should (not even like Antoine Walker or Lamar Odom on the glass game-to-game). The power forward role should mean rebounding role and more defensive paint presence. I don't think we can emulate those types of things with guards or else more teams would have Pietrus sized players at the four, and non-defensive, Al Harrington sized players at the 5. So between him and JO, obviously JO did more to affect the game on both ends of the floor rather than just one. And guys like Granger, Stephen Jackson provided more ability to drive on wing players since they are lighter and quicker and more used to making plays rather than trying to take over the play. (well most of the time). One of the knocks on Harrington is he needs to be more unselfish at the right times and he really needs to secure that pass or the rebound. He needs to be more dominant especially since Biedrins is caught tipping the pass to teammates rather than snagging the board. If we do take an outside shooting three, he's gotta go inside too even if it's a drive attack rather than a post up a la Ike. Plus, he's got to have some post game like all the other successful 3/4's. Because what happens is if the big guy defending the tweener is getting burned by quickness, they'll post a smaller, quicker guy on him, so the tweener needs to post that guy up and dominate the smaller defender. It's what makes Garnett and Nowitzki so effective despite many initial critics saying they had no true position. Well it turns out those two dominante the glass, they can block some shots, they can pass it, shoot it, and they got good moves to get to that foul line. So while Harrington and Biedrins occasionally have some nice games doing one or two things, we still need to get to the foul line and patrol the paint a lot more. As of now we're like one of those football teams where any team can go right up the middle on us for a first down. We need to protect that middle and make stops so we can stop the ball and run it back.
Power forwards? Bad news is, free agent market is crap. Highlights are probably Andres Nocioni and Chris Webber. And yeah, I don't think anyone really cares for Chris Webber back. Otherwise, you're really reaching. The draft class actually looks promising for big men, except ironically the Warriors may not end up with a great spot to pick from. Let's assume we either get stuck at a pick between 12 and 15. Now it's still early, but here are my views so far. In the first round, I'm looking at Darrell Arthur and Al Thornton, and in the second, Jermareo Davidson deserves a look. I like Darrell Arthur a lot and I think if he declares this year, he's definitely who I'd choose at this point. Run BJM has his game on the money, but the problem is that because he chose to go to Kansas, where the frontcourt is overloaded, he's only getting about 20 minutes a game so you don't get to see much of him. What you do see is that he's a great athlete and can score. He's even got a nice midrange jumper. The downside is that you just have to hope that his athleticism translates over to the defensive side. Al Thornton is a possiblity, but he's a tweener, and he's also a bit older than your average prospect at 23. Good scorer and athlete, but not a real banger. I think he'd fit in with our style of play, though. Jermareo Davidson is a nice rebounder, who again like all the other players I'm suggesting, is a good athlete. He's got decent size at 6'10" and is a tough rebounder and his shotblocker. He'll be a senior, so his game is pretty well known by this point. He's not much of an offensive threat, unfortunately (he's shooting 40% right now, but I think it's just a cold streak; he's shot better in his previous years). Per usual, there are also some European dark horses, Ali Traore from France, and Artem Zabelin of Russia. Artem is the true dark horse, because he's really young and there are a lot of questions, but right now he could come out as a taller, skinnier version of AK47. As for Ali, he's actually the best physically of any of the prospects at 6'9"-6'10" and 240-250 lbs, and he's been playing profesionally for at least 3 years. Athletic, quick, can use both hands and is great in the post. He might be gone by the end of the first round, depending on what happens during his season this year.
Good post Zhone, I agree with all your picks. Thornton is a good player but I like you said hes a tweener and we already have Al Harrington who is very similar. Also, Curtis Sumpter from Villanova can be had in the second round and they seem like very similar players, Sumpter's stock has taken a hit because he was injured for the whole 05-06 season but he'll be fine IMO. I don't have anything against Thornton and actually think good tweeners are useful in our system but I'd rather get a tweener in the second round than the first.
I was wondering the same thing myself so put out some feelers out there to see if there are any big men worth pursuing. We know trading JRich is out unless someone comes to Mullin with a deal to knock his socks off. That pretty much rules out Pau Gasol. As for AK-47, his play would really have to fall in order for Utah to trade him. The Jazz have said that he's not available now, but that's not the smart move imho. They should try and trade him while his value doesn't drop further due to his unhappiness in Utah. As for the rest of the big men, the pickings are slim. Better deals should be available during the summer or via the draft. If Foyle can't back up AB adequately, then the deals that come to mind are Nazr Mohammed, Stromile Swift and Melvin Ely. Detroit would have to take Foyle in return in any deal for Mohammed because of his contract. Swift should be able to help, but I'm not sure how much we would have to give up to get him. We'd have to give up POB, Barnes and Zarko for Swift in order to make salaries match. The other is Melvin Ely. I wouldn't even be interested in Ely unless we can dump our garbage on Charlotte because he can't help us.
Trade Pietrus for Elson of SA. Elson is a 7 footer that can really run the floor, but would not ask the ball too much. Pietrus is gone anyhow and SA is in need of a defensive swingman to produce rightaway. This trade can be done straight up.
Why is Pietrus gone no matter what? I don't see that. I would say Barnes is gone, possibly Az, but i think we can keep Az at the minimum. Pietrus has shown loyalty to the team and has always said "warriors for life". WE now have some cap room. Let's see how it plays out and how Pietrus finishes out the season. But Nelson has him playing at a career year best. Yeah, maybe the market and some team price Pietrus out of our reach. But i think he can be had for a reasonable amount. I would let Barnes go. Let him test the market and if there is nothing there for him, sign him to anther cheap one year deal and keep him hungry.
<div class="quote_poster">boogielew Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Why is Pietrus gone no matter what? I don't see that. I would say Barnes is gone, possibly Az, but i think we can keep Az at the minimum. Pietrus has shown loyalty to the team and has always said "warriors for life". WE now have some cap room. Let's see how it plays out and how Pietrus finishes out the season. But Nelson has him playing at a career year best. Yeah, maybe the market and some team price Pietrus out of our reach. But i think he can be had for a reasonable amount. I would let Barnes go. Let him test the market and if there is nothing there for him, sign him to anther cheap one year deal and keep him hungry.</div> Pietrus is gone because we've got J-Rich and Jackson signed to big contracts plus Monta eating up a ton of time at SG and hes due a huge contract the offseason after plus Barnes and Azubuike are cheap and productive. I hope that we can re-sign Barnes for a portion of the MLE, maybe 3-5 mil/year for 3 years depending on what other offers he gets, of course someone could give him a fat contract a la Bobby Simmons and we'd just let him walk. Pietrus is averaging 13/5 and a good defender, he makes very stupid mistakes and his production can be matched by Barnes/Azubuike plus we've got 3 or 4 picks in this draft where we could get a decent swingman. I wouldn't be surprised if a team gave him the MLE or close to it and I don't think I'd want to keep him at that price and contract length since we have so many other productive swingmen who are more versatile and smarter. We do have some cap flexibility but we've got 2 major signings coming up the following offseason in Monta and Biedrins. With 2 starting quality swingmen in JR and Jackson under large (but fairly paid I might add) contracts as well as Monta, Barnes, Azubuike and the draft and D-League where we've proven its not hard to find productive swingman talent, theres no reason to re-sign Pietrus to a 5+ mil/year 4-5 year contract.
Maybe the new CBA will kill off the 4-5 year contract fad. A 3 year deal might not be bad if the luxury tax can be managed. I kind of gave up on Pietrus for how good the guy could become. Mentally, I don't think he'll ever be that player that puts the whole package together. He's not natural at all.
Traditional 2,3,and 4 do not play in Nelson's systems... Let's not worry about that. Let these guys gel and run together. This team has a shot at surprising a lot of people.
<div class="quote_poster">CohanHater Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Traditional 2,3,and 4 do not play in Nelson's systems... Let's not worry about that. Let these guys gel and run together. This team has a shot at surprising a lot of people.</div> For now-this is probably the case. If we DID get a true PF type...would Nellie play him as a PF? As a C,not at all? I like Alexander Johnson and Larry Roberts of the Griz...at the right price. In the draft,Herbert Hill of Providence is a very good choice,blocking a lot of shots-6-10 Sr,a stunning 68% FG,rebounds. Nick Fazekas does some of everything well,an inside/outside scorer,a SMART player,a consistant rebounder . Not a speed guy-but not at all sluggish. Sneaky quick. Good D. Hill and Fazekas get underrated. All they do is PRODUCE. That they are projected lower than our likely slot is good. We can make some minor moves. Pietrus? We NEED D...We can't rely on Harrington-Jax-even J Rich as a stopper. Air France is a unique athlete,gives effort IS LEARNING,and we have Bird rights and he is RFA. We have no edge to keep Barnes or Azu. I'd RATHER keep both and lose Jackson....which is perhaps possible,just not easy. We now have Harrington,with a contract. Getting a high $ "star" PF,now,when we can't package ex-pacrs is not likely.
Don't underrate Barnes. He's a player and won't be a low$ one-year contract. He can start on plenty of teams,be a very good 6th man on others. I really like Danny Granger,in large part because he does a lot of stuff well. Barnes however has more 20+ scoring games. Barnes has more 3+ assist games Barnes has more 10+ rebd games Barnes has a better 3 pt % We will want to keep him if we can,but there will be interest. Plenty of it.
<div class="quote_poster">REREM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Don't underrate Barnes. He's a player and won't be a low$ one-year contract. He can start on plenty of teams,be a very good 6th man on others. I really like Danny Granger,in large part because he does a lot of stuff well. Barnes however has more 20+ scoring games. Barnes has more 3+ assist games Barnes has more 10+ rebd games Barnes has a better 3 pt % We will want to keep him if we can,but there will be interest. Plenty of it.</div> It's still questionable, but I half agree with you. Barnes' play has been really good of late, i.e. playing within himself, that he could catch some other teams' eye. I think we'll keep Azubuike for sure and it could come down to MP and Barnes. At this point, several people have their minds made up but I'm not sure who to keep. Maybe it will be based on who we can trade first and make the decision moot. I want to trade Jackson in the off-season. We have enough inconsistent SF/SG types, so we need to keep either MP or Barnes.
<div class="quote_poster">REREM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">For now-this is probably the case. If we DID get a true PF type...would Nellie play him as a PF? As a C,not at all? Hill and Fazekas get underrated. All they do is PRODUCE. That they are projected lower than our likely slot is good. We can make some minor moves. </div> Cut apart the middle of your post to kind of put together why I don't think Mullin will draft Fazekas. I like him a lot, but will Nelly like him is the real question, especially because of questions about how Fazekas will fare on the defensive end. Granted, very few rookies come out with solid defensive skills, but I don't see the pure tools to be a good defensive NBA big man. To me, it's like drafting Troy Murphy again (although Fazekas is better inside). Maybe I'm overanalyzing the situation. Hill I actually haven't had a chance to see, and all I know is he didn't get many minutes until this year. I'll have to keep my eye out and watch a few Providence games.
Nellie needs to give some minutes for Josh Powell. He could end up being a Udonis Haslem type of player.
Luis Scola is supposed to be good. He just has a dumb agent who got him a bad contract to try to buy out for the Spurs. This guys is quite NBA unproven but he is supposed to be quite good in Europe I think. The Warriors ownerhips might not want part of his buy-out but I suppose he might be an option if we gave something interesting to the Spurs. Right now I like the way things are going now. I like the production of the Al, Pietrus, Barnes, Powell tag team at the PF position so far. The Warriors chance for getting better in the front court would be by making a deal for AK47 (who is not that tall for a PF, I think he is the same height as Stephen Jackson - 6-7 I think) or for Gasol (which seems unlikely), or by finding something in the draft, or by a sudden emergence during the summer league of POB and Kosta - last year's draftees. Also out from way out in left field is the Scola idea.
