NBA?s Crackdown is Getting Ridiculous

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How can you not be a fan of Nash's game? That's crazy talk.</div>It's easy. I personally despise the man. I can't stand all the media attention he gets. I can't stand the fact that people claim him to be the best PG in the game and one of the best that ever lived. I can't stand that he gets 99.9% of the credit for Phoenix being so damn great when this is a team game. It makes me cringe to think he could be 3 time MVP come seasons end (and probably will be because the media loves him). I can't stand the fact that, if it wasn't for these last three season, he wouldn't get nearly the attention he does. I can't stand the fact that someone that puts little effort in to defense can be called the best player at his position when there is a guy by the name of Jason Kidd that rebounds and defends (you know, the things Nash doesn't do), along with racking up assists and a decent amount of points. These past few years are the ONLY reason why he gets so much MVP hype. They're the ONLY reason why he's now a likely HOFer. If he stayed in Dallas, he doesn't win an MVP and he's never going to touch the HOF. He's a product of a few great seasons, and without them, most everyone would still look at Jason Kidd and call him the best PG in the game (which he is in my book).

 

<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's easy. I personally despise the man. I can't stand all the media attention he gets. I can't stand the fact that people claim him to be the best PG in the game and one of the best that ever lived. I can't stand that he gets 99.9% of the credit for Phoenix being so damn great when this is a team game. It makes me cringe to think he could be 3 time MVP come seasons end (and probably will be because the media loves him). I can't stand the fact that, if it wasn't for these last three season, he wouldn't get nearly the attention he does. I can't stand the fact that someone that puts little effort in to defense can be called the best player at his position when there is a guy by the name of Jason Kidd that rebounds and defends (you know, the things Nash doesn't do), along with racking up assists and a decent amount of points. These past few years are the ONLY reason why he gets so much MVP hype. They're the ONLY reason why he's now a likely HOFer. If he stayed in Dallas, he doesn't win an MVP and he's never going to touch the HOF. He's a product of a few great seasons, and without them, most everyone would still look at Jason Kidd and call him the best PG in the game (which he is in my book).</div>

Saying he's overrated is one thing. But to say you personally despise him is a bit extreme, I think. He's a great leader, and he's as humble as they come. How many MVPs have ever said that they think someone else deserved the award more as he has?

Nash's rebounding is average for his position, no reason to crucify him over that. As for the defense, this argument that Nash's defense sucks is kind of tired. I'm not going to say he's an above average defender, and certainly he's not an All-defense defender like Kidd, but he's adequate (FYI, the Suns actually allow fewer points per possession with Nash on the court than the Nets do with Kidd on the court this season).

I think Nash's offense is about as good as it gets for a PG. His instincts and skill-level are off the charts. It's no coincidence that his teams (even in Dallas) are amongst the great offensive teams in the history of the league based on offensive efficiency relative to league average.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">At least the commentators mentioned it, so people will actually see the hypocrisy coming.</div>

LeBron's wasn't unsportsmanlike (hence, only flagrant penalty 1, not 2). You could argue that Kobe's hit was unsportsmanlike, because it involved a flop. Even though the contact itself was probably inadvertant, the motion that directly led to the contact was clearly not.

It's really simple. If you don't want to get ejected/suspended for somethign like that, just play the game the way it was meant to be played. Don't flail your arms and flop hoping for a foul from the ref.

 

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> How many MVPs have ever said that they think someone else deserved the award more as he has?
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I'll agree with various things you said about Nash but this really didn't mean anything. I've always been under the impression that one isn't supposed to anoint themselves the MVP (etc.), and that they should nominate other candidates for politically correct purposes.

 

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">LeBron's wasn't unsportsmanlike (hence, only flagrant penalty 1, not 2). You could argue that Kobe's hit was unsportsmanlike, because it involved a flop. Even though the contact itself was probably inadvertant, the motion that directly led to the contact was clearly not.

It's really simple. If you don't want to get ejected/suspended for somethign like that, just play the game the way it was meant to be played. Don't flail your arms and flop hoping for a foul from the ref.</div>

Utter rubbish. So you can get away with flailing your arms as long as no one gets hurt? What is being addressed here? The inadvertent contact or the flailing? Please do tell.

 

<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">
I'll agree with various things you said about Nash but this really didn't mean anything. I've always been under the impression that one isn't supposed to anoint themselves the MVP (etc.), and that they should nominate other candidates for politically correct purposes.</div>

It means something, if you're blaming Nash (as Moo2k4 is) for the MVP-consideration he's recieved. If Nash is pumping himself up and publically campaigning for the award, then you can call him on it. But he's actually said he thinks other players are more deserving. I never heard an MVP-winner ever say that. They may be PC about it, and say lots of players are deserving, but none have explicitly named another player as more deserving that I can remember other than Nash.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Fiyah Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Utter rubbish. So you can get away with flailing your arms as long as no one gets hurt? What is being addressed here? The inadvertent contact or the flailing? Please do tell.</div>

In my opinion, it addresses both the contact above the shoulders and the flop at once. You lose the right to call the contact "inadvertent" if it didn't occur via a legit basketball play. Flopping is not a legit basketball play.

Flopping is difficult to officiate correctly in real time, unfortunately. But if it results in an injury to someone else, you can examine it closely later on and punish accordingly.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's easy. I personally despise the man. I can't stand all the media attention he gets.</div>

So you hate Kobe, LeBron, Wade, and pretty much every other superstar that gets media attention?


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I can't stand the fact that people claim him to be the best PG in the game</div>

Why not? It's a legit claim.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">and one of the best that ever lived.</div>

Nobody is saying he's better than Magic, Oscar etc. right NOW. Top 5 all time? Hell no. Top 10? Maybe.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I can't stand that he gets 99.9% of the credit for Phoenix being so damn great when this is a team game.</div>

So why is Kobe getting 99.9% of the credit when his teammates have improved and he has one of the best coaches of all time coaching his team?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I can't stand the fact that, if it wasn't for these last three season, he wouldn't get nearly the attention he does.</div>

Well, it's not like he was putting up role player numbers in Dallas. He was putting up 17/7 regularaly and in his last season averaged 14.5/8.8. Who's to say he couldn't average 10+ APG if he didn't stay in Dallas?


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I can't stand the fact that someone that puts little effort in to defense can be called the best player at his position when there is a guy by the name of Jason Kidd that rebounds and defends (you know, the things Nash doesn't do)</div>

Well, you shouldn't be judging a PG on rebounds, they arn't supposed to do that. Is Jason Kidd a good defender? Yes. 2 years ago, I would've agreed with you on the whole 'Nash doesn't play defense' thing, but that arguement is tired now, he has improved enough to where he isn't a liability like he was in 04-05.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He's a product of a few great seasons, and without them, most everyone would still look at Jason Kidd and call him the best PG in the game (which he is in my book).</div>

Ok, so if he keeps putting up numbers like 15/10 for the rest of his contract (3 years) and wins a ring or 2, will you put him up their with the all-time greats?

 

@AKIRA: Reading your post made my day. I agree 100%.

LeBron / Wade:

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<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
Is kicking a player in the nuts a natural basketball move?

Manu should also get a suspension.</div>

That looked like a natural basketball motion to me. When you leap off one leg like that, the other one will natural go up. Amare was in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

 

Amare hit Manu in the upper body causing Manu to fall in a backwards motion which ended up hurting Amare's gonads. Nothing intentional.

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think Ray Allen said something negative about Kobe a while back. That might have something to do with it.</div>

Do you remember what he said, or have a link? I remember watching a show on ESPN all about Kobe and the Lakers a while back (2003 I believe) and when asked who his favorite current NBA player was, Kobe answered Ray Allen, because he has that cool smooth attitude the whole game even after knockind down that jumper kind of like a hitman.


<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Also, what I'm more annoyed with is not the constant rules that the NBA keeps coming up with, but the utter uselessness of them. If you remember in the offseason, the 3 major changes were a crackdown on player complaints, a stricter enforcement of the jerseys, and the introduction of a new ball. We're halfway through the season now and what has happened with all those changes? After going overboard in the first couple of weeks, the stricter attitude towards complaining has slowly become irrelevant. Star players will whine their asses off and very rarely, we'll see the refs throw out a tech on a star player. With the jerseys, it was a minor change but like the complaining rule, its been forgotten. I see players looking pretty disorganized with half their jersey sticking out sometimes. And, as we all know, the new ball has been an embarrassment. These all seem to say that the NBA has been implementing rules and changes that really don't address the major problems with the game: the unequal officiating and lack of consistency.</div>

Well said, I completely agree. It pisses me off as well that the league tries is just so focused on it's image right now and pay no attention to the game. But, hey, it's a business that only cares about money which sucks for us die hard basketball fans.

<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's easy. I personally despise the man. I can't stand all the media attention he gets. I can't stand the fact that people claim him to be the best PG in the game and one of the best that ever lived. I can't stand that he gets 99.9% of the credit for Phoenix being so damn great when this is a team game. It makes me cringe to think he could be 3 time MVP come seasons end (and probably will be because the media loves him). I can't stand the fact that, if it wasn't for these last three season, he wouldn't get nearly the attention he does. I can't stand the fact that someone that puts little effort in to defense can be called the best player at his position when there is a guy by the name of Jason Kidd that rebounds and defends (you know, the things Nash doesn't do), along with racking up assists and a decent amount of points. These past few years are the ONLY reason why he gets so much MVP hype. They're the ONLY reason why he's now a likely HOFer. If he stayed in Dallas, he doesn't win an MVP and he's never going to touch the HOF. He's a product of a few great seasons, and without them, most everyone would still look at Jason Kidd and call him the best PG in the game (which he is in my book).</div>

I can't stand the thought of him as 3x MVP either. If Kobe, or anyone else running up won last season, or Shaq/T-Mac in the 04-05 season, I would have no problem with Nash winning the MVP this season...as biased and moronic as that sounds I really feel this way.


<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It means something, if you're blaming Nash (as Moo2k4 is) for the MVP-consideration he's recieved. If Nash is pumping himself up and publically campaigning for the award, then you can call him on it. But he's actually said he thinks other players are more deserving. I never heard an MVP-winner ever say that. They may be PC about it, and say lots of players are deserving, but none have explicitly named another player as more deserving that I can remember other than Nash.
</div>

True, which is why I don't hate Nash. It's the media's fault for so desperately wanting to see a white guy be named the "best" player in the NBA.

 

<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That looked like a natural basketball motion to me. When you leap off one leg like that, the other one will natural go up. Amare was in the wrong place, at the wrong time.</div>

Still it was obnoxious how they gave Amare a Technical for that. Let the guy vent a bit.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">
It means something, if you're blaming Nash (as Moo2k4 is) for the MVP-consideration he's recieved. If Nash is pumping himself up and publically campaigning for the award, then you can call him on it. But he's actually said he thinks other players are more deserving. I never heard an MVP-winner ever say that. They may be PC about it, and say lots of players are deserving, but none have explicitly named another player as more deserving that I can remember other than Nash.</div>

I just heard Kobe the other day specifically name Dirk as the MVP.

 

<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I just heard Kobe the other day specifically name Dirk as the MVP.</div>

I think he said something like, "I don't care about it. Give it Dirk." Not quite the same.

 

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Invalid Video Link

Is kicking a player in the nuts a natural basketball move?

Manu should also get a suspension.</div>
I don't think Ginobili meant to hit him in the nuts, but he did get him good.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's easy. I personally despise the man.
</div>

I don't know what to say to that, like durvasa said, that's a bit extreme. Dude's a really humble guy and he knows other players could have gotten the MVP in the years he got it.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
I can't stand all the media attention he gets. I can't stand the fact that people claim him to be the best PG in the game and one of the best that ever lived.
</div>

You can't stand the media attention he gets? I can't stand the media attention Lebron gets, that's no reason to "personally despise" the man. People claim he's the best in the game right now because he's been a legitimate MVP contender 3 years running (even if you discredit his actual MVP wins) and his teams have done excellent 3 years running. I don't care if you think it's cause of the system, or the coach or Amare, but Nash is the heart and soul of that Phoenix team.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
I can't stand that he gets 99.9% of the credit for Phoenix being so damn great when this is a team game.
</div>

That's a really strange arguement. Kobe gets 100% of the credit for the way the Lakers play, and it is a team game as well. Nash makes the players around him better, as do Kobe, Wade, etc etc. I don't know where "99.9%" comes from, but if you watched the Phoenix Suns play last year, Steve Nash was playing amazing basketball and willed that Suns team to victory.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
I can't stand the fact that, if it wasn't for these last three season, he wouldn't get nearly the attention he does.
</div>

What're you, jealous? So, let's say Gilbert Arenas (hypothetically) gets signed to another team this summer. If he joins that team, posts up MVP caliber numbers and leads his team to 60 wins and gets more attention then he does now, would you be able to stand that? Nash glorified his career when he came to Phoenix. Is it his fault if he's hailed as the leader of the team that he's on (which he is) by the media? And in the words of Bryan Colangelo, when asked if every team can immulate the Suns' style: "Not every team has Steve Nash".

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
I can't stand the fact that someone that puts little effort in to defense can be called the best player at his position when there is a guy by the name of Jason Kidd that rebounds and defends (you know, the things Nash doesn't do), along with racking up assists and a decent amount of points.
</div>

Well, like people have stated, it's not really a point guard's job to rebound, so that arguement is kind of dead. Nash facilitates the Phoenix offense as great as any of the legendary point guards have done it (including Jason Kidd). This whole "Nash doesn't play defense" point is kind of overrated IMO. The main perrogative of the Suns' scheme is to just rack up points, and that's what they do. Why do you need to play defense when you're blowing teams out of the court with your offense?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
These past few years are the ONLY reason why he gets so much MVP hype.
</div>

Another strange point. These few years have been the only ones where he's putting up MVP caliber performances so obviously he's going to get hype.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
If he stayed in Dallas, he doesn't win an MVP and he's never going to touch the HOF.
</div>

Dead point again, there's a lot of IF'S that could be speculated. IF Kobe had signed with the Clippers, IF Charlie was still in Toronto...etc etc. Not that valid of an arguement.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
He's a product of a few great seasons, and without them, most everyone would still look at Jason Kidd and call him the best PG in the game (which he is in my book)</div>

No offense, but most of your argument seems like just your mere jealousy of Nash. It's like you're just mad because he's more recognized as the prototype point-guard of today then Kidd is.

 

I just think this whole thing is becoming a joke.

 

Kobe Bryant is the sole reason why I continue watching the NBA. Once he retires, I'll probably stop watching all together unless changes are made