Official Game Thread: Toronto @ Chicago (2/13/07)

Why was Joey Graham in the game at all in the 4th quarter?

If Garbajosa came in the game (and he should've), Bargnani would've had to been subbed out. Chicago was playing with 4 quick players who could shoot (Duhon, Hinrich, Gordon, Deng) and it we would've been completely exposed on defense (moreso).

 

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well, I'll disagree with the majority of you here. Jose Calderon was not playing good basketball when he was subbed out. He drove the ball 3 times within 4 or 5 possessions and was either denied entry, blocked, or had to pass out.</div>

At least he was trying though. Who else was trying to get to the basket tonight, later in the game? Everyone else was settling for jumpers, luckily we were hitting our shots tonight. I really didn't see where it looked like he was getting tired. 23MIN, 16PT, 9AST, 1TO. I don't see what more he could have done.

Not only that but he was getting everyone involved, and making plays for other players.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Eclipse Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">At least he was trying though. Who else was trying to get to the basket tonight, later in the game? Everyone else was settling for jumpers, luckily we were hitting our shots tonight.</div>
When he was subbed out (after the big run, when we started to lose control), Calderon was also settling for jumpers. Actually he reminded me a lot of Fred Jones/bad TJ Ford. He tried a few drives, with only one leading to a bucket and spent a few drives in a row, walking through picks, dribbling too much, and shooting a contested jumper. It's not necessarily his fault, because TJ faced the same problem. Chicago was doubling Bosh and not letting the PG penetrate. With nobody else moving off the ball, there wasn't much else we could do.

 

Parker is the ultimate choke player. Anybody see his butter fingers? He's missed so many big FT's this year and all.

Anyways, it's painful to watch TJ play in the clutch in the fourth. He couldn't do anything against the zone what so ever, running down the clock numerous times, and Calderon had his shot on, so I don't see why he wasn't subbed in.

<div class="quote_poster">Epidemik Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wow you're right. I do remember that video...Colangello's a genius when it comes to finding/seeing talent.</div>

lol, Deng was/is a highly regarded young player in this league. He's been hyped since his highschool years and days at Duke so everyone knew what exactly this guy may become.

 

<div class="quote_poster">P.A.P. Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Parker is the ultimate choke player. Anybody see his butter fingers? He's missed so many big FT's this year and all.</div>

I still don't know how he missed that pass. Bosh threw it underhanded!

Well at least Bosh is getting a lot better at handling the pressure late in games. We could have said the same thing about Bosh last season. Last season, pass it to Bosh and watch him lose the ball.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well, I'll disagree with the majority of you here. Jose Calderon was not playing good basketball when he was subbed out. He drove the ball 3 times within 4 or 5 possessions and was either denied entry, blocked, or had to pass out. And he was holding onto the ball far too long (uncharacteristic of him). The Bulls may have been one of the few teams to actually scout him properly and they (Ben Wallace in particular), took that drive away from him towards the end. I didn't mind subbing TJ Ford in and the problems with our offense were already evident before he was put in the game. I won't blame Sam for that substitution. </div>

<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">When he was subbed out (after the big run, when we started to lose control), Calderon was also settling for jumpers. Actually he reminded me a lot of Fred Jones/bad TJ Ford. He tried a few drives, with only one leading to a bucket and spent a few drives in a row, walking through picks, dribbling too much, and shooting a contested jumper. It's not necessarily his fault, because TJ faced the same problem. Chicago was doubling Bosh and not letting the PG penetrate. With nobody else moving off the ball, there wasn't much else we could do.</div>

Gotta say i disagree with you there. Calderon entered the game at the 6:28 mark of the 3rd Q with the score 68-65 margin (+3). he was subsquently removed from the game with 4:50 remaining in the 4th Q score 108-96 margin (+12). During that 13 minutes and 38 seconds Calderon recorded 12 points, 6 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 TO, 5/8 FG and 2/2 FT. extrapolate that to per 48 min average and Calderon's avg in that 13 minutes and 38 seconds looks like this: 42.24 points per 48 minutes, 21.1 assists per 48 minutes, 14.1 rebounds per 48 minutes, 3.52 TO per 48 minutes. As you can see the #'s are astronomical, Jose Calderon was the most effective player on the court by far during this time period.

BTW the leader in scoring per 48 minutes is Carmelo with with 38.5 PP/48Minutes (Calderon during that span 42.24) The leader in assists is Nash with 16.0 per 48 minutes (calderon during that span 21.1 assists) In rebounds Reggie Evans leads with 19.8 rebounds per 48 minutes (Calderon had 14.1 rebounds per 48 minutes)

Obviously #'s don't tell the whole story but from then on the raptors managed all of 4 points on 2 ft's from Bargnani and 2 FT's from Bosh in 4 minutes and 50 seonds. Granted Parker and Mo-pete missed some makeable shots. And fatigue might have been an issue when deciding to remove Calderon, but IMO you can't take a guy out when he is playing so well. Initially I thought it was a brilliant move by Sam when I saw TJ Ford getting up from the bench cause i thought he was going to go with two PG's to matchup better with the trio of bulls gaurds in: B. Gordon, Heinrich, and Duhon. Moreover two ball handlers could better handle a press. But then when I saw Calderon exit the game is was thinking F@#K-NO!!!!

edit: Oh and BTW in 13 minutes and 38 seconds the Raptors scored 40 points. In case your wondering the per 48 minute avg of that is 140.8 Points per 48 minutes. The Offense was cooking under Calderon.

 

Hear about Chucks idea of wearing red to the nets game? I say we do that for every game... every fan wear red, especially on the playoff run and in the playoffs.

I say we spread the word so the message is out!

 

It was a sick layup by Gordon to send it to OT. But was it a 2+1 play ? So he missed the possible game winning FT, right ? Haha.

I'm glad that they win, though. They haven't played well against Chicago and now they got a OT road win against them, sweet.

Bosh had another great game and so did Bargnani.
Nice job.

 

Here's the boxscore for anyone who cares.

 

Calderon was owned by Hinrich all night long. This was yet another impressive win for the Raptors, I won't let the poor call at the end of the game spoil that for them.

 

all these posts prove it....there is no satisfying most of you on here which begs the question are you really Raptors fans??? Last time I checked we won last night against a team that was supposed to be a serious contender. A win is a win! Quit whining& bitching and give credit where credit is due!

At the beginning of the year you were all bitching about too many euro's, mitchell should be fired etc and now we are playing over .500, leading the Atlantic and winnning against top tiered teams. What is the big deal whether Sam subbed out Jose for TJ??? Again... a win is a win.

These are games that regardless of what happens during the game it is the final result that matters. That and by finding a way to win will only help us when the season comes down to crunch time and dare I say playoffs. Sure we gave up a big lead but like someone said earlier we bent but didn't break. Every team will have runs and we've found ways to survive them. Our D is waaaaaayyyy better this year all the guys are playing a team game (I'd say Sam gets most of this credit), Parker has won games for us and you bitch about one missed pass or a questionable substitution by Sam?!??!??! When do they start to get the benefit of the doubt or credit? These are main cogs for us being in the position we are in. once again everyone thinks they are smarter than BC and Sam.

Oh ya and everyone and their dog knew Deng was a dope player it ain't rocket science.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Flow Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It was a sick layup by Gordon to send it to OT. But was it a 2+1 play ? So he missed the possible game winning FT, right ? Haha.

I'm glad that they win, though. They haven't played well against Chicago and now they got a OT road win against them, sweet.

Bosh had another great game and so did Bargnani.
Nice job.</div>

Nah...he made the free throw, but there was time on the clock, so we had another posession. Bosh got foulded and made both free throws. 2.9 seconds were left in the game, and Gordon got the ball, but didn't score. Raps win!

This was a huge win, and a monkey off our back. We can look at the schedule now, and when we see games against Chicago, it's no longer an automatic loss. Especially considering we beat them on their own court, where they're one of the best teams in the league.

The euro crew was phenomenal tonight...I thought Jose, Bargs and Garbo all played great ball. Top notch win...im so happy we took 2 of the 3 tough games on our sched (Lakers/Pistons/Bulls). Now we just need to win against Jersey tonight, and we go into the all-star break 5 games over .500! who would have predicted that!? Not even me, and I have been one of the real optimists.

I have to agree with Jones a bit as well. Although, I would ask in the future, you try to get your point across in a more tactfully manner please
But the point he made about a lot of complaining in a win, is something I noticed as well. Not just here, but on other boards as well. Parker has been great for us...I wouldn't call him the anti-clutch at all. He made some buckets for us down the stretch...including a really tough fade-away baseline jumper. He fumbled the pass...it happens. We still won.
Although, at the time I wasn't impressed with Sam's descision to take out Jose and keep TJ in for the final minutes of the game...you can't argue with the results. Raps got the win.
Werent you guys just waiting for the Bulls to make a big push late in the game? I certainly was...a good team, and on their home court...it was only a matter of time. But we still came out with a W. So I am a happy camper

 

Yeah I don't think anyone would have predicted us to do this well. The main concern for this season was the chemistry issues due to so many new players, but damn we gelled quickly. I expected Raptors to barely make playoffs playing .500 ball, but if we keep working at it we have a chance at 2nd/3rd or even 1st in the East.

 

I think it's funny that as soon as someone levies any criticism their "not a fan" anymore. No one is complaining about the level of success we're having this season, it's spectacular to say the least. Personally, I felt a successful season this year was 34 wins and getting close to the playoffs.

That being said there are still criticisms because we have a ways to go to be an elite team. I know we can't do this in one or two seasons obviously but it's only natural for people to point out flaws. Just because we win the game you can't act like nothing went wrong and everything was perfect. We were one whistle away from blowing that game when we had more than favorable circumstances to close out over the last four minutes. It's not the first time we've had trouble closing and we've seen these type of problems.

You can be a fan without tirelessly accepting every move the team makes and everything that happens.

 

I'd take an intelligent fan who wants his team to rise above mediocrity over a blind homer anyday. The fact is, if Chicago started playing a zone 1-2 minutes earlier, we probably would've lost. I'm glad they won, but I think its only fair that people call out the coach for letting the Bulls back in the game. That criticism clearly won't come from the broadcasters or sports media, so it's up to the fans.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Epidemik Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah I don't think anyone would have predicted us to do this well. The main concern for this season was the chemistry issues due to so many new players, but damn we gelled quickly. I expected Raptors to barely make playoffs playing .500 ball, but if we keep working at it we have a chance at 2nd/3rd or even 1st in the East.</div>

I did, check the Bulls preview thread from last night.

 

<div class="quote_poster">M Two One Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I did, check the Bulls preview thread from last night.</div>

I didn't mean against the Bulls, I meant doing well as in our record so far. But yeah even I doubted the Raptors yesterday.

 

The Raptors will be the best team in the league a few years down the road with this roster. I called that out before the season started in the At a Glance article, I'm definitely sticking with that theory. I've been high on this team, even though I'm not a fan, for many months now.

 

I hate to post this here Rap fans, but I'll delete this afterward. So, Epidemik that avatar you wanted is done, clean out your PM box next time.

Not sure if this is exactly right, enjoy.



When you've saved the picture, just upload it from your computer to JBB and let me know when you have done this that way I can delete the image from my ImageShack account.

Thanks

 

<div class="quote_poster">Jones Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">all these posts prove it....there is no satisfying most of you on here which begs the question are you really Raptors fans??? Last time I checked we won last night against a team that was supposed to be a serious contender. A win is a win! Quit whining& bitching and give credit where credit is due!

At the beginning of the year you were all bitching about too many euro's, mitchell should be fired etc and now we are playing over .500, leading the Atlantic and winnning against top tiered teams. What is the big deal whether Sam subbed out Jose for TJ??? Again... a win is a win.

These are games that regardless of what happens during the game it is the final result that matters. That and by finding a way to win will only help us when the season comes down to crunch time and dare I say playoffs. Sure we gave up a big lead but like someone said earlier we bent but didn't break. Every team will have runs and we've found ways to survive them. Our D is waaaaaayyyy better this year all the guys are playing a team game (I'd say Sam gets most of this credit), Parker has won games for us and you bitch about one missed pass or a questionable substitution by Sam?!??!??! When do they start to get the benefit of the doubt or credit? These are main cogs for us being in the position we are in. once again everyone thinks they are smarter than BC and Sam. </div>

What if Colangelo was just content, like you are about us being over .500 and making the playoffs? Would you be satisfied if he just sat back on his ass and did nothing this coming off season to improve our team? Seems like you would be.

Sorry, but even though the Raptors are surpassing all expectations (even mine), there are many areas where they need improvement. Just because we pull out a close win doesn't mean everything is fine and doesn't need improvement. Many times this season the Raptors have had trouble keeping up leads in the 4th quarter. Do you think we can keep doing that and just hope that someone doesn't take advantage of it?

The best players, coaches, GMs find a way to make their team better and not just sit back and be content where they are. The only people that can do that are the people that have just won a championship.