<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">CALIFORNIA KIDD WARRIORS, LAKERS FAVORITES TO GET JASON BIDS FOR KIDD: Peter Vecsey says Jason Kidd is likely heading to the West Coast — either with the Lakers or the Warriors. February 18, 2007 -- LAS VEGAS - Cheerless to say, yet indisputably reasonable, in all likelihood, we've seen the last of Jason Kidd in a Nets uniform. On the other hand, I suspect he hasn't lost his ability to grace an occasional New York City tabloid front page. Within the last week the Warriors, I'm informed, have communicated interest in the Oakland-native and certainly flaunt more than enough assets to outbid the Lakers for his services. I do not know the principles involved, or even if an actual offer was made. Would the Nets accept, say, Jason Richardson (four years and $55M left after this one), Adonal Foyle (two years and $19M) and rising-free-agent Michael Pietrus? If Jason Collins (two years and $12.3M) were included in the deal, most certainly! Even should Golden State refuse, I'd do it because it would terminate the guesswork regarding Vince Carter's contract intentions at season's end. Of course, should Carter verbally commit to the Nets before Thursday's trade deadline - and it's established he isn't using Carlos Boozer's agent or wife as consultants - that abruptly ends any notion of dealing Kidd to the Warriors. The Nets' insistence that Collins accompany Kidd to LA is an obstruction in that trade negotiation, but not intractable, I'm guessing. If a better offer than expiring contracts, draft picks, cash and Kwame Brown or Brian Cook doesn't materialize within the next four days, I'm inclined to believe Kidd will return to the Triangle Offense from whence he began as a rebellious rookie in Dallas under Jim Cleamons, off and on assistant to Phil Jackson for the last 15 years or so. </div> Source Always take it with a grain of salt from Vescey. But Baron + Kidd? That'd be weird. I love his game as a PG, but with Kidd aging, I'd want to wait on JRich to see if he returns to form. We need a starting PF so Harrington can play SF / come off the bench. I do like Kidd, though. Now, if we did a package deal, like Baron+Jrich for Vince+Kidd... nah.... I want to see Boom Dizzle and JRich become the dynamic-duo once again. They were at one time supposed to be the most explosive backcourt in the NBA. Let's hope we see that before this era of Warriors basketball comes to a close...
Yeah, I dont like the idea of getting Kidd who is getting old. If we trade for Kidd it has to be for Baron Davis, not Jrich. I think it would be great to have a healthy Kidd over an injured Davis even if he is getting old. If the Lakers want a high priced PG, why dont we send Davis to them for Bynum or Kwame?
I think Jason Kidd would be great with this team. I would trade Jason Richardson, Pietrus, and heck if they are willing to take Foyle then add him for Kidd and Collins. What does Jason Richardson add to the current squad? I think he just adds more scoring, and the team really doesn't need more scoring. Jason Kidd is one of the best PG's in the fast break. I am not sure if he's still the fastest dribbler in the NBA, but he's still very good. He was great vs. the Warriors a month ago in Oakland. Jason Kidd has the resume of a hall of famer and the ability to carry teams to victory. I think Jason Richardson, Pietrus, and Foyle for Kidd and Collins is almost a no-brainer. Also who would be a better mentor to Monta Ellis than Jason Kidd? Jason Kidd is still putting up his usual good numbers with even his best shooting season besides the shortened lock out season that he has had. He is also getting 8 rebounds per game which is also a career high. So I don't think Jason Kidd would all of a sudden turn into Mookie Blaylock part two for the Warriors, especially playing in his home area. Also (this is a reach like most of these KG ideas seem to be) if the Warriors get Jason Kidd, then I think the team becomes much more flexible to make a deal for Kevin Garnett by doing a Kidd or Baron plus Harrington, Patrick O'Bryant and maybe a draft pick for KG, in the future or even this offseason. So if we really wanted to get creative and day dreaming then the starting lineup for next season would be like Kidd/Ellis/Jackson/KG/Biedrins. Oh yeah, but of course this article did come from Peter Vescey, such as AlleyOop bolded in his post. So that may not mean a whole bunch. Also, aren't we just about ready to end this era of Warriors basketball with Baron/JRich as the star players? It just seems as if it has only brought disapointment, especially since Baron is injury prone and JRich has been out this season. It seems to me that the new era is leaning more towards Ellis/Biedrins, which doesn't really need to involve JRich...
Kidd is a favorite of mine-but the Nets are thinking that YOU DO NOT REBUILD around a guy who's 34 in about a month and will soon be 36 and finishing off his deal at something well beyond $20 mill a year. Crank up the time machine...J Rich is a rookie,Pietrus can't speak English yet,O'Bryants a 9th grader...then Kidd was a great core. I'd do that. Foyle is scoring at a 60%FG pace and getting a shotblock every 10 min....the Foyle/Collins flip is not really much of a plus as Kidds mega $ salary more than offsets the $ difference between Foyle and Collins. Warriors would not be sensible in trading Davis or J Rich for Kidd-even up,due to the 6-7 year age difference. We are not already a team that is a favorite to be in the top 4,and after this...I don't even see us as more of a contender next year. Beyond that...when we ARE targeting some playoff happiness,this deal looks progressively worse. Vecsey is just another guy who sees NYC as the hub of the universe,making it our duty to fall on the grenade to save the Knix-Nets. Not my priority...sorry.
<div class="quote_poster">REREM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Kidd is a favorite of mine-but the Nets are thinking that YOU DO NOT REBUILD around a guy who's 34 in about a month and will soon be 36 and finishing off his deal at something well beyond $20 mill a year. Crank up the time machine...J Rich is a rookie,Pietrus can't speak English yet,O'Bryants a 9th grader...then Kidd was a great core. I'd do that. Foyle is scoring at a 60%FG pace and getting a shotblock every 10 min....the Foyle/Collins flip is not really much of a plus as Kidds mega $ salary more than offsets the $ difference between Foyle and Collins. Warriors would not be sensible in trading Davis or J Rich for Kidd-even up,due to the 6-7 year age difference. We are not already a team that is a favorite to be in the top 4,and after this...I don't even see us as more of a contender next year. Beyond that...when we ARE targeting some playoff happiness,this deal looks progressively worse. Vecsey is just another guy who sees NYC as the hub of the universe,making it our duty to fall on the grenade to save the Knix-Nets. Not my priority...sorry.</div> But what do the Warriors lose in doing this trade? granted that the Nets would accept such an offer. Jason Kidd is having about a career year for himself this season, even at the age of 34. Look at Sam Cassell and the Clippers. Sam Cassell is older than Jason Kidd. Sam Cassell is 38 years old, and he still gets the nod as starter over the supposively prodigy prospect of Shaun Livingston. The Clippers are a losing team without Cassell as the starter. The Timberwolves are a losing team without Sam Cassell. The TWolves went from final contenders to losers with the loss of Sam Cassell. The Warriors are a losing team with Baron, and with Jason Richardson. I believe the Warriors have a better shot, just as the Clipper with Cassell, at being a winning team with Jason Kidd on board than in its current state, even if they lose Jason Richardson, Mickael Pietrus, and Adonal Foyle. Also I feel that there is a double standard that you are using between Foyle and Kidd. Foyle's contract doesn't matter, even though he produces like a D-League call up. Yet Jason Kidd is averaging almost a triple double and his contract is what you knock him on, besides his age? Proportinally speaking, paying Kidd 20 million dollars seems much more acceptable when paying Foyle 10 million dollars. Also, like you said, even if the Warriors aren't contenders next season with or without Jason Kidd, at least Kidd can teach Baron Davis and Monta Ellis a bunch of stuff in how to be a winner. I would take Jason Kidd as the captain of this team over the current Boss, Twin, or even JRich. Also, if JRich never does come back very well from his knee injury, the Warriors wouldn't have to worry about paying him 13 and 14 million dollars from 2009-2011 when JKidd's contract would have expired by then. Finally, there is always the ticket sales aspect of it. Jason Kidd returning to Oakland will sell tons of tickets. How could Chris Cohan turn down that opportunity? For the first time it won't be about coming out to watch the other teams' great players, but it will be "come out to watch Jason Kidd play" every night -the hometown legend.
You make good points, Clif. The only thing is that I can't see BD and Kidd on the same team. Those two already have a rivalry from past games. Not that I think they wouldn't get along -- I believe they have a lot of respect for eachother. I just don't see BD "deferring" the PG position to Kidd. BD probably feels he has done enough learning, IMO. He doesn't need a mentor, unless it's a Hall-of-Fame coach. I mean, what, will BD be the back-up off the bench? I guess he could play SG, but it would be an awkward transition. BD likes to have the ball in his hands 95% of the time. Even though Monta is trying to convert to point, he works fine at SG because he can move w/o the ball, stroke the jumper, and finish in every phase of the game. He doesn't need to pound the ball. However, this might be an odd line-up: Kidd BD SJax Harrington Beans Just doesn't feel right. Kidd Monta Sjax Harrington Beans Even though BD is the superior player, it just feels better with Monta in there at SG. I just don't think Kidd + Baron together would work well.
It would be very interesting to have Baton and Kidd on the same team. On the one hand you'd think that it wouldn't work out because they both need the ball in their hands to be most effective, on the other hand you'll always have either Baron or Kidd playing and it will just be crazy pressure, both offensively and defensively, for the opposing team. Sounds crazy enough for Nellie to try it out. With Kidd, Baron can be more focused on scoring and not have to worry too much about getting everyone involved while also scoring 25 points himself just to give the team a chance to win. Kidd can come in, push the ball, get everyone involved, play great defense, and rebound. I'd imagine if the trade went down It would be something like J-Rich, Pietrus and Foyle for Kidd and Jason Collins, perhaps with picks being exchanged as well. In terms of talent that would be a pretty good trade for us but its risky because our cap will be in hell for about 3 years and the team would have potential to be a disaster.
If we knew what we were going to get from JRich and Baron in coming months, it would be easier. JRich could return as top-15 scorer in the league, or, because of his knee, his career could be effecively over as a potential star. Let's not forget that Baron just had a knee surgery too -- will he come back this month? this season? this year?
<div class="quote_poster">AlleyOop Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If we knew what we were going to get from JRich and Baron in coming months, it would be easier. JRich could return as top-15 scorer in the league, or, because of his knee, his career could be effecively over as a potential star. Let's not forget that Baron just had a knee surgery too -- will he come back this month? this season? this year?</div> Baron's health uncertainty which dawns on this team every season, and will continue to do so in the future, is kind of a reason to maybe pull the trigger on landing Jason Kidd. Like I mentioned before, it at least gives this team more flexibility to make deals in the future. I can see Baron being part of a deal to bring in a very good PF like Gasol or KG when Baron's stock rises again (since it has probably fallen due to this recent injury again) since PG's tend to have higher values than SG's like JRich. Also this team has a lot of high-volume shooters in Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson, and Baron Davis. One of the potential problems I see is that even when Jason comes back, who was the biggest shooter for the team last season, there just won't be enough touches to go around. Now since Baron might be out that may not be too big of a problem right away, but at some point it may become a problem. But if this trade happened and Baron Davis moved to SG then I'd think that he'd still be getting his shots. I guess I can't really guarantee that the transaction would create a smooth transition of having a Baron/Kidd starting backcourt. It would not be very conventional, but Don Nelson isn't really a conventional head coach. Also Jason Kidd would be the team's second best rebounder on the team stats-wise which isn't really conventional when you think of adding a PG to the team. Also I don't know about the Baron/Kidd rivalry. I recall Baron/Nash have some type of rivalry though, but I didn't know about the Kidd one.
except for trading J-Rich I love this trade, never mind that Kidd is 34 what I look for the Warriors is a true point guard that set up all the swingmen we have for easy buckets. I understand that fear of loosing our salary cap flexibilty but, sooner or later we are going to have to make deals. We allready know what we are going to get with Kidd. What are we saving the cap space for a big like Garnett who might not be available or won't come to the Warriors? The way this Warriors team is built it needs a true all star caliber point guard ie Kidd. What is not to like about the prodigal son coming back home? If we get Kidd i really believe that we will make the playoffs of course this trade as mention before came from Peter Vecsey so i'm not getting my hopes high.
Jason could be as good as Sam Cassell at that upper 30's age (in theory) but Cassell is a way better marksman. If we kept Jason Kidd and Baron Davis together, that'd be some possibly injury prone, low fg% type players. If they don't have anyone good that can finish inside and out, there's no point in passing the ball. I strongly believe that a player like Richardson's caliber will do those things we need until we can find a Ray Allen or somebody that is just a huge veteran type all-star talent that can actually play shooting guard extremely well (pass, dribble, shoot, finish inside and outside).
...and 43+ minutes a game. Take away Baron (assuming one has to go in order for Kidd to be here) you have the team totally reliant on Jason Kidd making everything happen or else let the three ball and standing around take over.
This team needs finishers in the worst way. Every playoff team has a guy that can finish once he makes a move inside. I don't see much finishing from the Pacers players on a consistent basis. I see it from Ellis and Richardson though. Biedrins can usually finish if they just give him more touches.
A lot of players start to skid downhill at about the age Kidd is. Gary Payton and Mookie Blaylock come to mind. If the team runs a lot- it's even more notable. I do like Kidd and a few years ago I'd say hell yeah..but then the Nets would not trade Kidd. Now, they would BECAUSE they are now struggling to be at .500 and they have a real high $$ guy getting too old to be there when they can contend. Us? Same deal. Are we a contender next year? Probably not. The year after? Maybe. Kidd would turn 36 about the end of the regular season. Do you think he's the same? J Rich would be in his prime....and the year after....boom. No Baron or Kidd or J Rich or Collins. Maybe part of it's that as a Warrior fan, I sort of want to see SOMEONE here long enough that I can relate to them as a Warrior. When Foyle and J Rich go...who's the senior Warrior...oops,it would have been Pietrus--but adios. Biedrens becomes the senior Warrior....a 20 yr old. I'm already a bit uneasy in the aftermath of the Indy deal....I don't really see any of the new guys as long term keepers. Until the dust settles-we have players but not quite a team,and yet the dust never seems to settle. Our top scorer,our top rebounder...they are sure to be gone soon-they always are. The only guys who stick around are those like Chris Mills or Foyle who lack any market.
You know rem, you said you dont see any of the Pacers as keepers. To me it wasnt about keepers because most of us did not see Dunleavy or Murphy as keepers. The only potential keeper was Ike, but to rid ourselves of Dun and Murphy, Ike was well worth the penalty. Basically this trade gave us some more athletic players overall and ridded ourselves of guys like Mcleod, Murphy and Dunleavy. This also gives us the potential in a few years to give a huge contract to some FA who IS a keeper. Who knows, maybe if Ike blows up we can bring him back here with a big FA check...
<div class="quote_poster">Clif25 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think Jason Kidd would be great with this team. I would trade Jason Richardson, Pietrus, and heck if they are willing to take Foyle then add him for Kidd and Collins. What does Jason Richardson add to the current squad? I think he just adds more scoring, and the team really doesn't need more scoring. Jason Kidd is one of the best PG's in the fast break. I am not sure if he's still the fastest dribbler in the NBA, but he's still very good. He was great vs. the Warriors a month ago in Oakland. Jason Kidd has the resume of a hall of famer and the ability to carry teams to victory. I think Jason Richardson, Pietrus, and Foyle for Kidd and Collins is almost a no-brainer. Also who would be a better mentor to Monta Ellis than Jason Kidd? Jason Kidd is still putting up his usual good numbers with even his best shooting season besides the shortened lock out season that he has had. He is also getting 8 rebounds per game which is also a career high. So I don't think Jason Kidd would all of a sudden turn into Mookie Blaylock part two for the Warriors, especially playing in his home area.</div> I rather trade Baron Davis for Jason Kidd. That makes more sense than what Vescey's deal makes. He's been wrong before, so if there is a deal, then it should be something like BD, Foyle and Zarko for Kidd and Collins. The Warriors get a local product who, while aging, still has enough to lead them to the playoffs next season and can groom Monta Ellis properly. Kidd won't be casting off 3-balls when the Warriors fall behind and will run the fast break attack better than Davis. We'd want to keep JRich because Kidd could make him an all-star. He'd speed up AB's development by getting him involved more on offense and will help Monta a lot more than Baron. New Jersey gets younger in their quest to rebuild, but they may be thinking twice about taking on a PG who hasn't been able to finish a season in five years. I would assume that's the hangup with the deal. Zarko would be an expiring contract and would help pay for Foyle's contract next season. BTW I wouldn't say the Warriors covet Kidd while we do like him. JRich would be too much to give up for him. If we can get Kidd, then I'd be shooting for one of the following in the 2007 NBA Draft: PG: Kidd, Cabbages SG: JRich, Monta SF: Al, Jax, MP (likely traded) C: Biedrins, Collins PF: Julian Wright or Yi Jianliang (point forward)
Baron- Foyle for Kidd-Collins is not way crazy. J Rich + Mike Pete for Kidd...that's nuts. I'd be willing to add Barnes if they add Hassan Adams< I guess they figure VC is a goner. We'd really be going far out on a limb. If Kidd starts to decline much,or gets injured much,his 20 mill per year deal will be totally unmovable. Still,the contracts of Baron-Foyle-Collins-Kidd all are about even and expire togather. Kidd scores less..rebounds more,isn't as fast but is a slightly more inventive passer (assists are about even this year,however),it's a gamble. Trade J Rich for Kidd? We then have Kidd + Baron + Monta at PG...and guess who's gonna get the short minutes? I guess the answer is someone plays SG. In that scenario,we're losing the go-to scorer,the guy who can go off for 30 when the streak shooters we are loaded with-run cold.
<div class="quote_poster">jason voorhees Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I rather trade Baron Davis for Jason Kidd. That makes more sense than what Vescey's deal makes. He's been wrong before, so if there is a deal, then it should be something like BD, Foyle and Zarko for Kidd and Collins. The Warriors get a local product who, while aging, still has enough to lead them to the playoffs next season and can groom Monta Ellis properly. Kidd won't be casting off 3-balls when the Warriors fall behind and will run the fast break attack better than Davis. We'd want to keep JRich because Kidd could make him an all-star. He'd speed up AB's development by getting him involved more on offense and will help Monta a lot more than Baron. New Jersey gets younger in their quest to rebuild, but they may be thinking twice about taking on a PG who hasn't been able to finish a season in five years. I would assume that's the hangup with the deal. Zarko would be an expiring contract and would help pay for Foyle's contract next season. BTW I wouldn't say the Warriors covet Kidd while we do like him. JRich would be too much to give up for him. If we can get Kidd, then I'd be shooting for one of the following in the 2007 NBA Draft: PG: Kidd, Cabbages SG: JRich, Monta SF: Al, Jax, MP (likely traded) C: Biedrins, Collins PF: Julian Wright or Yi Jianliang (point forward)</div> I believe the Nets have a young PG that they are high on. If Vince Carter is really thinking about leaving then they may want JRich. Also I wouldn't be surprised if the Nets are asking for someone like Patrick O'Bryant as well. They have been pretty desperate for a big man. I think they were rumored to have some interest in Murphy earlier this season.
